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06-16-2008, 07:58 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gooshin Quote
no, you are not starting a "debate"

you are calling out all the K20D users (and those that desire one) to defend their purchase.

and, within the first sentence of your original post you dismiss the most important reason for purchasing the K20D! "ohh the sensor is nice and all..."

it seems to me that you dont want a camera, what you want is a feature filled gadget box thinga majig that doesnt cost alot so you can show off to all your friends how cool you are.

i bet you if the K20D had a button that made it do a whirring noise you would be all over that like white on rice.
Wow. That's very offensive.

I did not mean to offend anybody by this post. Sorry if I did.

06-16-2008, 07:59 AM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by FastPhotography Quote
Okay, you are an exception
You do actually use all of those 14mp, and doing magazine covers and jobs on assignment that demand A++ IQ, so I don't even question why you use the K20D. And if I had your job, your assignments, and such, I'd get the K20D without hesitation. I just thought I'd throw in another opinion to the forum

Although I must say, I have a feeling I'll get the K30D when it comes out. Or the next generation high-end Pentax, whatever the name will be.
you dont have to be employed through use of your camera to desire high quality pictures.

i am one of those people, i havent made a single cent from my photography, but i take much pride in my work, and the new 14mp sensor is of higher quality, period, ergo the bottom line of my work will benefit.
06-16-2008, 08:02 AM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by FastPhotography Quote
Wow. That's very offensive.

I did not mean to offend anybody by this post. Sorry if I did.
im not offended, its just that i went through dozens of posts just like this one back when the K20/200 were being announced,

and for the most part the people that looked down upon the new camera didnt understand that you as a photographer have to understand what you need from a camera and come to terms with the fact that Pentax may not meet some of your requirements

and the solution to this little dilema is simple, switch systems!
06-16-2008, 08:06 AM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jewelltrail Quote
Fastphotography I like your post--it should stir up the waters here for a while--LOL. Here is a TOPTEN List for your asking.

10) To a landscape photographer who almost never exceeds ISO 400, these words from Pop Photo, "At 2350 lines of resolution at ISO 100-400, the K20D delivers slightly higher resolution than the Nikon D300", bring tears of joy.

9) Have you seen the stunning images, which are merely crops, which Pentax Poke just posted? It shows how a K20 crop can even dwarf a K10 full res.

8) 3 FPS, at 15mp, is a huge leap over 3 FPS, at 10mp

7) For some photographers, huge prints are a necessity, not an anomaly

6) It is nice to have a sensor so good that it won't even let you use bad glass with it.

5) The shake reduction is an improvement over the K10

4) I'd rather have extended dynamic range than be without it

3) 15 mp is a rare spec alongside a camera--10 mp is commonplace

2) As jgredline says----"It is cool."

1) And the top reason why the K20 is preferred over the K10, scroll down




It gives us all new things to discuss here at the forum!


Regards,


Ernest


"Humanity subdues inhumanity as water subdues fire."

Mencius 6A:18.
Oh yeah, if I wanted superb IQ with absolutely no problems, I'd get the K20D. I do not at all doubt the IQ of the camera. Some people demand 14mp. I personally would rather get a great picture from the start, rather than cropping. But I must admit, sometimes I did wish for a larger picture to work with. But I still think it does not justify buying a whole new body. This camera is just not for me, that's all

06-16-2008, 08:09 AM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gooshin Quote
im not offended, its just that i went through dozens of posts just like this one back when the K20/200 were being announced,

and for the most part the people that looked down upon the new camera didnt understand that you as a photographer have to understand what you need from a camera and come to terms with the fact that Pentax may not meet some of your requirements

and the solution to this little dilema is simple, switch systems!
I understand what the camera does, sir. But not 100%, because I haven't owned it. And I have no intentions of switching systems. Because Pentax still rocks, and I have a huge investment in Pentax glass/accessories
06-16-2008, 08:13 AM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lance B Quote
It is quite easy to dismiss the K20D's extra features and benefits, but until you *live* with it, you really don't know what you are missing.
Correct. If I were to get the camera, I might just find that everything is perfect! But for now, I still think it's not for me.
06-16-2008, 08:21 AM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by FastPhotography Quote
Wow. That's very offensive.
Don't be surprised to get burnt now and then when trying to stir the pot.


I'm not planning on upgrading to the K20D myself. However, the more I read about the K20D, especially about the improved autofocus, I realize that there are a host of little features that I would like to have on my K10D. I can see why others have chosed to take the plunge.
06-16-2008, 08:23 AM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by AVANT Quote
We all know specs sells, thanks for point that out. If Pentax was going in the specs race, they will fail, just like Sony is currently, only faster because they aren't as well funded.
Hmm! Good point, I never realized that with Sony. And yes, specs do sell. Which is a shame for the K20D.

QuoteOriginally posted by AVANT Quote
The D80 is dated and there is no replacement for it yet, but THAT'S supposed to be the K20D class competition.
Yeah, I was debating in my post, D300 or D80, but I chose D300, because the D80 is (I think!) equivalent of the K10D. But I think the D300 is more comparable to the K20D than the D80 is.

QuoteOriginally posted by Mallee Boy Quote
Hi Fastphotography,
A good debate never hurt anyone....much.
I upgraded from the DS to the K20D, so why not the K10D or an offering from Canon or Nikon?

Canon I will not (never, ever) buy on principal due to a certain posters constant praise of it.
Nikon I would consider, but that means a whole system change, so before I do that I will exhaust the options with Pentax, given that i now have a reasonable investment in the Pentax system....with which I am quite happy btw. I do not need machine gun fps and I am more than happy with the AF.

I have shot alongside people with 5d's and D300's etc and I am yet to see anything that makes me say..'gee, gotta have that'.. in fact quite the opposite applies.

So why not the K10D? Simple, The K20D is newer technology, it expands on the K10D , so why wouldn't you buy it?

Current Price is largely irrelevant as they were both priced very much the same on release. Price movement will happen over time and the K20D has already moved down a bit, which makes it sensational value for what you get. (& no I don't work for Pentax).

Cheers.
YES. YES YES YES. I loathe c*non, too. I also feel the exact same way about Nikon. I will exaust all Pentax options before I resort to switching to another brand. (Which would be Nikon if I had to)

You have some good points! I think I'd rather wait until the next generation Pentax high-end camera comes out (be it a K30D or K3D or whatever it will be). Thanks for your comment!

06-16-2008, 08:43 AM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by FastPhotography Quote
Wow. That's very offensive.

I did not mean to offend anybody by this post. Sorry if I did.
Yet you wrote.
QuoteOriginally posted by FastPhotography Quote
I do not mean to offend anybody by this
Which is code, for ''I am going to start an offensive thread.....'' in your OP.
06-16-2008, 08:48 AM   #40
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FastPhotography I understand your standpoint. I myself had no plans to upgrade from my K10, but then it got stolen. Fortunately I had it well insured so for the money I got, I upgraded to the K20. The K10 filled all my needs, but I must admit that the K20 is a much better camera in every way.
06-16-2008, 08:54 AM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by FastPhotography Quote
You do actually use all of those 14mp, and doing magazine covers and jobs on assignment that demand A++ IQ, so I don't even question why you use the K20D. And if I had your job, your assignments, and such, I'd get the K20D without hesitation. I just thought I'd throw in another opinion to the forum.
So it's unquestionably a superior camera for a pro like Ben, but overrated and not worth the money for - well, for who exactly?

I own both the K10D and the K20D and have shot thousands of photos with both of 'em. My thoughts.

The best thing about the K20D is how similar it is to the K10D. The K10D wasn't "revolutionary" in any useful sense of that word but it certainly was a big jump forward. The K20D is (thank goodness) a more incremental upgrade. All of these facts should give comfort to K10D owners who can't afford to upgrade or who could afford but aren't sure they want to spend the money. Should anybody upgrade? I never advise, in fact, my advice about buying cameras and computers is the same as my advice about joining the priesthood: If you don't feel that you MUST, then you probably shouldn't.

On the other hand, the K20D has everything that the K10D had, and then some. So the K20D is unquestionably and absolutely a better camera. If both were available and the price difference between the two was truly negligible, then anybody who bought a K10D would be a fool.* So the argument boils down simply to whether the superiority of the K20D is worth the price difference. Different people will have different answers. I don't question those who say no. However, I don't think it's good form for people who answer no, to criticize those who answer yes by suggesting that they've been duped.

After agonizing a bit (a personal trait of mine not necessarily related to the difficulty of the decision) I decided that I had to upgrade. What sold me on the K20D wasn't the higher res in itself, certainly wasn't live view, it was the camera's performance at higher ISOs.

With the K20D I have occasionally gone higher than 1600, but most of the time I stop at 1600. I find that the resulting photos are indeed less noisy than those produced by the K10D, and I have grounds for comparison because I'm often shooting with both cameras around my neck. Now I'm not sure whether the difference is really due to the K20D's superior sensor or to the K20D's having so many more pixels. I suspect it's a bit of both. But I don't care. I can run a K20D shot through Noise Ninja and clean it up quite nicely, yet retain sharpness; with the K10D's shots (which by the way I never thought were as noisy as K100D owners here alleged) I have to tolerate a bit more noise to keep the same level of sharpness.

In most normal circumstances (say, when light is reasonably good), the Image quality of the K20D is not spectacularly, head-slappingly better than that of the K10D. In fact, aside from the K20D's noise handling, I find it difficult to tell at a glance whether a shot was taken with the K10D or the K20D. I think there are differences, but the K10D was already a really fine camera, so you have to look really hard to see where the K20D has improved basic image quality. Those who haven't upgraded and continue to post outstanding pictures here taken with their K10Ds remind me that, in the end, the camera matters less than the photographer.

Still, I'm very happy to have my K20D and, for myself, consider it worth the cost.

Will

*(note) I said above that - price aside - the K20D is unquestionably and absolutely better than the K10D. I want to acknowledge the one possible objection to that claim: the K20D's raw files are significantly larger than those produced by the K10D. So you get fewer images per SD card with the K20D and you'll fill up your hard drive faster. But this seems to me a trivial complaint. If you're really that concerned about storage, you should be looking at something altogether different - or shooting jpeg.
06-16-2008, 09:11 AM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by WMBP Quote
Still, I'm very happy to have my K20D and, for myself, consider it worth the cost.
Awesome. Great. If it's worth it to you, I'm happy for you. For me, a penny-pincher, it's not worth it. (and yes, I did read all of your comment . thanks for commenting)
06-16-2008, 10:11 AM   #43
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Avant,

how is Sony currently failing?

Creampuff, can you point me to hard evidence of the a700 having issues? i see no threads whatsoever on dyxum about it
06-16-2008, 12:07 PM   #44
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I would say that the K20d was overpriced (and now it is getting close to the right price). I wouldnt say that it is overrated thought. Many people have thrown a lot of garbage on it already. I keep thinking that it is a perfect camera for landscapists and non-action photographers, actually I think that it has the best price/specs at that segment with the 5D being the challenger at almost double the price and with other pros and cons. If you have other preferences I am affraid that you should look onto another system.
06-16-2008, 01:47 PM   #45
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The K20D is a much better upgrade to the K10D than the Canon 30D was to the 20D.
So a lot of 20D owners were still happy and skipped the 30D and bought the 40D later, the OP is free to skip the K20D and get the K30D or K1D later.
We agree the K20D is a nice piece of work and will make many people happy, the OP will use what he has and not spend the money.
In the market the K20D fits in, it will attract a lot of first time buyers, move a lot of people to switch brands and find upgraders.
And some will skip it *Shrug* too much fuzz about an obvious troll post ;P

What we really need is black Pentax polo shirts, since Pentax can't do advertising right themselves.....;P
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