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06-16-2008, 01:51 PM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by FastPhotography Quote
-PC sync socket? A hot shoe adapter costs $20 or less.
with that adapter you lose the P-TTL flash system. with the pc sync socket, you can have a P-TTL flash on board and hook a PW up to fire a remote flash elsewhere.

06-16-2008, 02:11 PM   #47
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.


I have to emphasize a couple points again that were made several times above -

* High ISO performance, when S/N ratio is taken into consideration -
class-leading, matches or exceeds the D300.

* The sensor. The sensor. The sensor. It's like stepping into a pool of color.
Like opening your kitchen door and stepping out into Oz. And with
14.6MP, every significantly sharp lens can be cropped into macro.

And the real reason:

* Because the Super Takumars have been waiting 35 years for this sensor,
just to show what they can really do - finally.








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06-16-2008, 02:12 PM   #48
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I think this discussion is a waste of time.

Should the title not be "I think the K20D is overpriced for my budget" ??

Was the K10D's original retail price not pretty similar to the K20D?

6mths after it's release, has the K20D not dropped in price by approx the same amount as the K10D did 6mths after it's release?

If the K20D is overpriced for someone's budget, stick with the K10D, it's a fab camera, wait till the K20D comes down in price even more, and get one then... or pay full whack for the K30D.

I don't see why price makes the K20D "over rated".

p.s. I have owned both camera's and still have the K20D.

Last edited by lbam; 06-16-2008 at 04:02 PM.
06-16-2008, 02:14 PM   #49
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Lets face it people, this debate makes no sense.

NOBODY needs the K20D. Even if you are a pro like Ben you don't need it. I know, it is nice to have 14MP, or high ISO, or whatever, but really, people have been making posters and magazine covers with worse tools than the K10D, and for a long time.

But this industry, like others, is not about what we need, it is about what we want.
On this aspect, i think we all agree. We all want better than what we have. No matter how good our tool is, we will want better than what we have. I don't have the K20D, I have a GX-10. I love this camera and it does all i want it to do. I will not spend any money on another body for a while.
BUT in the end I want the K20D. Why would I not? It is as good or better in all aspect than what I have. Money is the limiting factor.
So if you have the money in your wallet, get it, if you don't, don't.

I have been trying to convince myself that i don't want to K20D (actually i think that the GX-20 would be my choice). But really, i am doing so just because i can't afford this thing so i would rather have some kind of reason for it other than the imperfection of my economical status.

I haven't convinced myself, i still want it, and i suspect the OP does to (maybe not for this price, but you know you do...).

06-16-2008, 02:22 PM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by FastPhotography Quote
Yeah, I said it! I just don't understand why somebody would pay $1000-1400 for a camera that isn't THAT much improved from the K10D.

PLEASE note, though, that this was written by an owner of a K10D, not a K20D. I've never owned one. I do not mean to offend anybody by this; I'm only sharing my opinion, and starting a debate. People keep saying what they love about this camera, but IMHO it's not that big of an upgrade from the K10D. Good luck against 40D, D300, and A-700.

OK...I have both
Shot 25000 pics witht the K10. Now at 12000 with the K20. The K10 is now my backup camera. Did i regret buying the K20...hell no. Its not because its cool to have it, it's because that for me it was a good improvement. You wont offend me by saying that the Nikon or Canon is better. I dont care. I am just not going to spend the amount of money that Canon and Nikon ask for the body or the lenses ask. Give me any camera and i will make the pictures i can make with it. Trust me that i tried a lot of cameras over the years....a lot.
And its funny that each time, i go back with Pentax.
I saw so many cameras come back for different defects, but a lot less Pentax than all the others.
06-16-2008, 02:22 PM   #51
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DeuDeu, Exactly what I was saying, but put in different words. Thanks.
06-16-2008, 02:23 PM   #52
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What about folks like me who don't upgrade with every new camera? I bought my K20D about 2 months ago, and passed my old *ist-D on to my daughter. Yes, I could have saved money (not the $1000 you claim) by getting a K10D, but like the *ist, this one will serve me for several years until I decide to upgrade again.

As a side note, I may not make it a couple years since my son has already let it be known he'd like to have this one when I'm done with it.
06-16-2008, 02:24 PM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by lbam Quote
DeuDeu, Exactly what I was saying, but put in different words. Thanks.
And i think we were writting it at the same time too!

06-16-2008, 02:26 PM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by deudeu Quote
And i think we were writting it at the same time too!
Indeed
06-16-2008, 03:12 PM   #55
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sour grapes

QuoteOriginally posted by lbam Quote
I think this discussion is a waste of time.

Should the title not be "I think the K20D is overpriced for my budget"
Yeah, I'm wondering the same thing. When the OP said that he didn't understand why anybody would spend the money on a K20D, I thought he was asking a question. But several people offered answers and he doesn't seem to be satisfied. His point seems to be, "I think people who buy K20Ds are chumps and suckers, unless of course they have a good reason."

I agree with deudeu: nobody needs a K20D. There are good photographers in this forum taking excellent pictures with the *ist DS, the K100D, certainly with the K10D. The K20D is just another model, with some new features.

I think it's fair and reasonable to ask, "What do those who've bought a K20D like most about it?" I think it's also reasonable to decide for yourself that, whatever the K20D's benefits, a K20D just isn't in your budget. But to claim that the K20D is "overrated" (especially without reference to any particular rating), to claim that it's not worth its cost, sounds a lot like sour grapes to me.

Will
06-16-2008, 03:48 PM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
.


I have to emphasize a couple points again that were made several times above -

* High ISO performance, when S/N ratio is taken into consideration -
class-leading, matches or exceeds the D300.

* The sensor. The sensor. The sensor. It's like stepping into a pool of color.
Like opening your kitchen door and stepping out into Oz. And with
14.6MP, every significantly sharp lens can be cropped into macro.

And the real reason:

* Because the Super Takumars have been waiting 35 years for this sensor,
just to show what they can really do - finally.



.
Its no use sherm. The OP has conveniently ignored the improved sensor and it's improved ISO capability in every reply. It confirms my original guess that this was a troll post.
06-16-2008, 05:00 PM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by jgredline Quote
.Hmmm, Last I saw no other had a 14.6 mp sensor, but many have a 10.0 MP sensor...
I'm not defending the original poster, but Sony has 14.2 MP on their A350.

That said, I think the K20D is a great camera. I didn't have that much $$$ in my budget, or I would have bought it. I am very happy with the K200D I bought, though. That's essentially a smaller K10D .

If you buy body only from amazon, the after-rebate price is $989 for the K20D and $528 for the K200D as of this writing. For an amateur, it's not easy to justify paying almost double the price for the Live View and the extra 4MP.

I never cared much for composing pictures on an LCD. I don't like my P&S Nikon L1 digital camera because it doesn't have a viewfinder. It's hard to use in sunlight. So I won't miss the Live view on my K200D. I wouldn't mind the 14 MP at the price point of the K200D, though :-).
06-16-2008, 05:03 PM   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by OniFactor Quote
Avant,

how is Sony currently failing?

Creampuff, can you point me to hard evidence of the a700 having issues? i see no threads whatsoever on dyxum about it
BTW not everyone posts on dyxum and I was a long time Minolta user myself. These were reported by several owners here in Singapore. I know a A-700 user who personally experienced the problem when shooting an event. Sent the camera back for service.
06-16-2008, 05:47 PM   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by FastPhotography Quote
Y

Yes, it has a very nice sensor. I'll give it that much.

I'm a portrait photographer, and that very nice sensor was, all by itself, enough to make me jump from the k10 to the k20.
In my job, better skin tones = better sales, and the k20 gives better skin tones.
06-16-2008, 08:11 PM   #60
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QuoteQuote:
Confused
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Hi Ernest (Jewelltrail)

It's been interesting to follow this thread, but thus far I can't recall reading anything concerning SR improvements between the K10D & the newer K20D:
Hi Richard:


I have actually read it in more than one review, perhaps in as many as four in fact. I have all my research saved, so let me know if you need all my sources. In the mean time, here is one of the sources upon which I drew to make the claim the SR is better in the K20--thanks for asking--BTW, the entire report can be found in the link below the quotation.


"According to Pentax, the K20D has a sensor-shift mechanism similar to the K10D's, and offers up to 4 stops' advantage. But our tests confirmed that minor modifications and faster processors have improved the image-stabilization system by about half a stop over the K10D. Now, when shooting with a 200mm lens, you can expect a 2.5-3 stop advantage in shutter speeds compared to handholding the camera without image stabilization. With wider-angle lenses, the benefit decreases, and with longer focal lengths (or heavier lenses) the benefit may increase." Popular Photography


Camera Test: Pentax K20D - - PopPhotoMarch 2008


Regards,

Ernest



"Humanity subdues inhumanity as water subdues fire."

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