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06-16-2008, 08:19 PM   #61
Damn Brit
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lance B Quote
Good points, Gary.

I doubt that there will be a firmware upgrade for the FPS as the FPS is a function of the limitations of the shutter and mirror mechanism. To get higher FPS, Pentax need a more robust shutter/mirror assembly and this would have proved too costly to implement in the K20D for the points you made out in your post.

The new KxxD will possibly have better FPS and also possibly faster low light AF.
Thanks Lance, told you I wasn't technical.
Gary

06-16-2008, 08:39 PM   #62
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Maybe I've missed something but after reading the original post again I get the impression that the real issue for OP is lack of increase in FPS. Why don't you give the reason for this? Also what made you buy a Pentax in the first place?
Gary
06-16-2008, 09:14 PM   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by morfic Quote
The K20D is a much better upgrade to the K10D than the Canon 30D was to the 20D.
So a lot of 20D owners were still happy and skipped the 30D and bought the 40D later, the OP is free to skip the K20D and get the K30D or K1D later.
We agree the K20D is a nice piece of work and will make many people happy, the OP will use what he has and not spend the money.
In the market the K20D fits in, it will attract a lot of first time buyers, move a lot of people to switch brands and find upgraders.
And some will skip it *Shrug* too much fuzz about an obvious troll post ;P

What we really need is black Pentax polo shirts, since Pentax can't do advertising right themselves.....;P
Yes sir. You got it right. I agree with you
06-16-2008, 09:24 PM   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by Damn Brit Quote
Maybe I've missed something but after reading the original post again I get the impression that the real issue for OP is lack of increase in FPS. Why don't you give the reason for this? Also what made you buy a Pentax in the first place?
Gary


Yeah, FPS isn't a gigantic deal to me, but it's certainly nice to have >4 or 5 fps. The main reason for posting this was to shake up the pot. I love challenging what somebody may think is a great thing, or a great idea, because then it really shows why somebody likes it. Maybe I should join a debate club or something

And, although I'm slightly ashamed of this, I bought my first Pentax DSLR because it was CHEAP. I was on a tight, tight, tight budget. $430 for camera and lens. It has served me 2 years 99% flawlessly, and I LOVE it! I like Pentax and being able to use my 1967 Takumar 300/4

Does that answer your question?

06-16-2008, 09:26 PM   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by jshurak Quote
with that adapter you lose the P-TTL flash system. with the pc sync socket, you can have a P-TTL flash on board and hook a PW up to fire a remote flash elsewhere.
Ah! Good point!!
The thing is, for me, I never use a P-TTL flash. I always use my dandy old Vivitars 285HV or 4600, so this doesn't really benefit me

Honestly, I didn't even think of that when I wrote it. Definitely a good point!
06-16-2008, 09:27 PM   #66
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QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
And the real reason:

* Because the Super Takumars have been waiting 35 years for this sensor,
just to show what they can really do - finally.

.
Hooray! Long live Pentax!
And wow, your lens collection should definitely prove that point...
06-16-2008, 09:32 PM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by FastPhotography Quote


Yeah, FPS isn't a gigantic deal to me, but it's certainly nice to have >4 or 5 fps. The main reason for posting this was to shake up the pot. I love challenging what somebody may think is a great thing, or a great idea, because then it really shows why somebody likes it. Maybe I should join a debate club or something

And, although I'm slightly ashamed of this, I bought my first Pentax DSLR because it was CHEAP. I was on a tight, tight, tight budget. $430 for camera and lens. It has served me 2 years 99% flawlessly, and I LOVE it! I like Pentax and being able to use my 1967 Takumar 300/4

Does that answer your question?
Yeah, thanks.
06-16-2008, 11:05 PM   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
.


I have to emphasize a couple points again that were made several times above -

* High ISO performance, when S/N ratio is taken into consideration -
class-leading, matches or exceeds the D300.

* The sensor. The sensor. The sensor. It's like stepping into a pool of color.
Like opening your kitchen door and stepping out into Oz. And with
14.6MP, every significantly sharp lens can be cropped into macro.

And the real reason:

* Because the Super Takumars have been waiting 35 years for this sensor,
just to show what they can really do - finally.


.
damn you jsherman...now I want a K20 and a bag of Super Taks

06-17-2008, 12:26 AM   #69
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As multiple people have posted before, I find it funny that the OP referenced the Canon 40D in the same post as attacking the K20D for being "not worth the upgrade".

Canon are the absolute KINGS of watered down, lukewarm, weak, boring and plain marketing/bean counter driven crippled "upgrades".

If there wasn't competition from the small guys like Pentax and Olympus, you'd still be choosing between the Nikon D80 and the Canon 20D five years later.
06-17-2008, 01:23 AM   #70
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Why I am staying with Pentax for now at least.

As I was sponsored by Canon before coming on board with Pentax, I had the opportunity to shoot with all of their camera's and lenses. I recently compared the output from the Canon 1Ds Mkll which is a 16 megapixel camera to that of the K20D about 15 megapixels. I doubt if anyone here on the forum could tell which camera took which photo on a A3+ sized image or on a A2 for that matter. Perhaps the colour rendition might give it away, but I doubt that.

The output of the K20D is on par with this 8000 camera. As far as I am concerned, I think that the K20D is "UNDER PRICED" for what you are getting and that we are spoiled rotten. The Nikon D300 is way more expensive and its output is not as fine as that of the K20D at 100 iso, which is where I reside in most cases when shooting.

Being that I have this massive lens arsenal, I see no reason to quit Pentax, as I am sure that they with Samsung will drop the proverbial bomb in the not so far future to compete with the likes of Canon, Sony and Nikon. By that I mean a +20 megapixel camera to compete with the D3 and 1Ds Mklll.

Ben
06-17-2008, 04:49 AM   #71
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Iff you compare the printing (as in lithography) possibilities of the K20D vs. the K10D for a two page spread with a very fine stochastic screening process, the decision to upgrade is a no brainer. The K20D is the clear winner by a very wide margin.
06-17-2008, 06:44 AM   #72
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QuoteOriginally posted by benjikan Quote
As I was sponsored by Canon before coming on board with Pentax, I had the opportunity to shoot with all of their camera's and lenses. I recently compared the output from the Canon 1Ds Mkll which is a 16 megapixel camera to that of the K20D about 15 megapixels. I doubt if anyone here on the forum could tell which camera took which photo on a A3+ sized image or on a A2 for that matter. Perhaps the colour rendition might give it away, but I doubt that.

The output of the K20D is on par with this 8000 camera. As far as I am concerned, I think that the K20D is "UNDER PRICED" for what you are getting and that we are spoiled rotten. The Nikon D300 is way more expensive and its output is not as fine as that of the K20D at 100 iso, which is where I reside in most cases when shooting.

Being that I have this massive lens arsenal, I see no reason to quit Pentax, as I am sure that they with Samsung will drop the proverbial bomb in the not so far future to compete with the likes of Canon, Sony and Nikon. By that I mean a +20 megapixel camera to compete with the D3 and 1Ds Mklll.

Ben
That's definitely good to hear that Pentax will (probably) soon have a pro-level camera. Definitely something to dream about
I'm not 100% sure what you meant by "compete with Canon, Sony and Nikon" but in a recent interview with Ned Bunnell, he said he was not going to try to take over the top two brands. But if that's not what you meant, then nevermind
06-17-2008, 06:46 AM   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by flyer Quote
Iff you compare the printing (as in lithography) possibilities of the K20D vs. the K10D for a two page spread with a very fine stochastic screening process, the decision to upgrade is a no brainer. The K20D is the clear winner by a very wide margin.
No doubt. I'm not arguing that. The K20D is definitely better than the K10D. I just think Pentax didn't make enough improvements to make the camera profitable (but, according to the length of this thread, I may have been proved wrong! )
06-17-2008, 08:20 AM   #74
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Upgrade to K20D

QuoteOriginally posted by FastPhotography Quote
No doubt. I'm not arguing that. The K20D is definitely better than the K10D. I just think Pentax didn't make enough improvements to make the camera profitable (but, according to the length of this thread, I may have been proved wrong! )

I don't really think that the target market for the K20D is current K10D owners. Pentax will be very happy to take your money, of course, but I think that the target is owners of other brands, users of previous-generation Pentax dslrs (*istD, etc.) and new dslr buyers.

You're right. The K20D is an improved version of the K10D. It is evolutionary, not revolutionary.

How many people in the general population (not cameraphiles like us) buy a new $1000+ camera every two years? I suspect that the number is small.

I also suspect that relatively few Nikon D200 owners rushed out to buy D300's, either, even though that is arguably more of an upgrade than the K10d-K20d. If that had happened, you would see a lot of D200's on ebay at fire-sale prices.

Profitability of the K20D will not result from it being a lot better than the K10D. If Pentax is able to improve the camera enough to maintain or improve on the sales figures of the K10D, while keeping development and manufacturing costs low by leveraging the existing design of the K10D, then it will be profitable. The K20D doesn't have to beat the K10D. It has to be perceived by customers in stores trying to decide between Pentax, Nikon or Canon, as the best value for their needs.
06-17-2008, 08:50 AM   #75
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QuoteOriginally posted by noblepa Quote
I don't really think that the target market for the K20D is current K10D owners. Pentax will be very happy to take your money, of course, but I think that the target is owners of other brands, users of previous-generation Pentax dslrs (*istD, etc.) and new dslr buyers.

You're right. The K20D is an improved version of the K10D. It is evolutionary, not revolutionary.

How many people in the general population (not cameraphiles like us) buy a new $1000+ camera every two years? I suspect that the number is small.

I also suspect that relatively few Nikon D200 owners rushed out to buy D300's, either, even though that is arguably more of an upgrade than the K10d-K20d. If that had happened, you would see a lot of D200's on ebay at fire-sale prices.

Profitability of the K20D will not result from it being a lot better than the K10D. If Pentax is able to improve the camera enough to maintain or improve on the sales figures of the K10D, while keeping development and manufacturing costs low by leveraging the existing design of the K10D, then it will be profitable. The K20D doesn't have to beat the K10D. It has to be perceived by customers in stores trying to decide between Pentax, Nikon or Canon, as the best value for their needs.
Word. This is very true!
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