Is TAV mode Pentax-only?

peterh337 · 08-12-2015, 08:36 AM

I have been looking at the APS / micro-4/3 cameras lately. I decided to not bother because the loss of quality / usability was too big for me and they need to be carried around in the same way (waist pack, backpack, etc) as my K3 so there is little practical benefit.

But I also noticed none had the TAV mode, which I use nearly all the time.

Did Pentax manage to patent it?

vonBaloney · 08-12-2015, 08:43 AM

I think you can get equivalent or close functionality on some other brands/models, but it is a more convoluted path, not just a setting on the dial as with Pentax. I think TAV with EV comp ability will be hard to find on other cameras, but maybe some of them have it now?

**boriscleto** · 08-12-2015, 08:48 AM

Whenever I talk about TAv to Canikon users they just say "That's just manual mode with auto-iso".

stevebrot · 08-12-2015, 08:54 AM

Originally posted by boriscleto

Whenever I talk about TAv to Canikon users they just say "That's just manual mode with auto-iso".

That is my understanding as well. The nice thing about Pentax is that the TAv behavior is always available as a set mode while allowing set ISO for all other modes, particularly M.

Steve

**wtlwdwgn** · 08-12-2015, 09:06 AM

The other brands make you go into the custom settings to setup auto ISO while Pentax provides it on the mode dial. Unfortunately though it doesn't work with older manual lenses without an A setting on the f stop ring.

aleonx3 · 08-12-2015, 09:30 AM

Originally posted by boriscleto

Whenever I talk about TAv to Canikon users they just say "That's just manual mode with auto-iso".

Originally posted by stevebrot

That is my understanding as well. The nice thing about Pentax is that the TAv behavior is always available as a set mode while allowing set ISO for all other modes, particularly M.

Steve

I don't think it is the same, TAv mode support EV compensation whereas M with auto-ISO does not.... at least that's my understanding after trying it on Nikon D750 (I could be wrong though because I didn't spend a lot of time on it). Similarly, on k-01, it does not have TAv mode but M with auto-ISO..

I also think that it is difficult to implement TAv mode without front-and-rear dial, which Canon DSLR model does not have.

**TER-OR** · 08-12-2015, 09:52 AM

I like TAv - and M - and being able to switch between them (without menu diving) when you want control over all parameters. Most of the time TAv is what I use, I want to control the primary variables and let the camera deal with the rest.

**boriscleto** · 08-12-2015, 09:52 AM

Originally posted by aleonx3

I don't think it is the same, TAv mode support EV compensation whereas M with auto-ISO does not.... at least that's my understanding after trying it on Nikon D750 (I could be wrong though because I didn't spend a lot of time on it). Similarly, on k-01, it does not have TAv mode but M with auto-ISO..

I also think that it is difficult to implement TAv mode without front-and-rear dial, which Canon DSLR model does not have.

All true. But Canikon users don't see it that way...

TedW · 08-12-2015, 10:48 AM

Originally posted by stevebrot

That is my understanding as well. The nice thing about Pentax is that the TAv behavior is always available as a set mode while allowing set ISO for all other modes, particularly M.

Steve

Bingo! I use both TAv and manual extensively and the idea of having to change from Auto-Iso to set ISO is a non-starter. I normally shoot TAv but If I'm doing something at sunset or later I like to switch to manual mode where I can under or over expose easily using the dials/roller-wheels.

aleonx3 · 08-12-2015, 10:50 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by boriscleto

All true. But Canikon users don't see it that way...

Doesn't bother me whatever Canikon users think or do... not my job to show or convince them.

CarlJF · 08-12-2015, 11:53 AM

Originally posted by TedW

Bingo! I use both TAv and manual extensively and the idea of having to change from Auto-Iso to set ISO is a non-starter. I normally shoot TAv but If I'm doing something at sunset or later I like to switch to manual mode where I can under or over expose easily using the dials/roller-wheels.

For Canikon users, features they don't have are usually considered useless...until they have it! Most funny I heard from them is that IBIS is useless but at the same time will spend extra money to get the stabilized version of their lenses...

Fogel70 · 08-12-2015, 11:55 AM

Originally posted by aleonx3

I don't think it is the same, TAv mode support EV compensation whereas M with auto-ISO does not.... at least that's my understanding after trying it on Nikon D750 (I could be wrong though because I didn't spend a lot of time on it). Similarly, on k-01, it does not have TAv mode but M with auto-ISO..

I also think that it is difficult to implement TAv mode without front-and-rear dial, which Canon DSLR model does not have.

Some Nikon bodies with auto-ISO have EV comp. They have had for some years and I believe D750 has it too. And nowadays it pretty easy to switch between auto/manual ISO on Nikon, just hold ISO-button and turn front wheel.

Nikon have some nice features in auto ISO I would like on my Pentax, FI that you can set slowest shutter speed that auto ISO use (or auto like on Pentax), and when adjusting ISO in auto ISO you adjust the lowest ISO in the auto ISO range instead of going back to manual ISO.

The auto-ISO functionality have not changed much on Pentax bodies since K-7, but I really hope Ricoh understand that they could make the cameras even more flexible with a few small changes on auto-ISO.

- User defined slowest shutter speed, maybe an option for TAv mode. So that you either set an absolute shutter speed, or the lowest shutter speed you want to use so the camera can set faster shutter speed if ISO have reached the lowest ISO and the image risk being overexposed.
- Possibility yo change lower and upper limit of auto-ISO without having to enter menus.
- Wider range of "auto ISO parameters" instead of slow, normal and fast it could be +-4 stops of nominal shutter speed so can make full use of image stabilization. Or maybe even an auto setting where camera adapt slowest shutter speed depending on focal length and how much camera shake there is.

Adam · 08-12-2015, 12:03 PM

Originally posted by peterh337

I have been looking at the APS / micro-4/3 cameras lately. I decided to not bother because the loss of quality / usability was too big for me and they need to be carried around in the same way (waist pack, backpack, etc) as my K3 so there is little practical benefit.

But I also noticed none had the TAV mode, which I use nearly all the time.

Did Pentax manage to patent it?

I think the TAv mode dial setting is something only available on Pentax bodies, but it is functionally equivalent to M mode with auto ISO, so most other cameras do support it that way.

6BQ5 · 08-12-2015, 02:17 PM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by Adam

I think the TAv mode dial setting is something only available on Pentax bodies, but it is functionally equivalent to M mode with auto ISO, so most other cameras do support it that way.

The Q7 does not have a TAv setting on its mode dial. TAv mode is enabled just as Adam described. Go to Manual mode and enable Auto ISO. The TAv mode icon appears in the upper left hand corner of the display.

**boriscleto** · 08-12-2015, 02:26 PM

Originally posted by 6BQ5

The Q7 does not have a TAv setting on its mode dial. TAv mode is enabled just as Adam described. Go to Manual mode and enable Auto ISO. The TAv mode icon appears in the upper left hand corner of the display.

And the K-01 works the same way. Unfortunately the K-30/50/500 also work the same way even though they have TAv on the mode dial...

08-12-2015, 08:36 AM	#1
peterh337 Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: London Posts: 573	Is TAV mode Pentax-only? I have been looking at the APS / micro-4/3 cameras lately. I decided to not bother because the loss of quality / usability was too big for me and they need to be carried around in the same way (waist pack, backpack, etc) as my K3 so there is little practical benefit. But I also noticed none had the TAV mode, which I use nearly all the time. Did Pentax manage to patent it?

08-12-2015, 12:03 PM	#13
Adam Administrator Site Webmaster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 51,595	Originally posted by peterh337 I have been looking at the APS / micro-4/3 cameras lately. I decided to not bother because the loss of quality / usability was too big for me and they need to be carried around in the same way (waist pack, backpack, etc) as my K3 so there is little practical benefit. But I also noticed none had the TAV mode, which I use nearly all the time. Did Pentax manage to patent it? I think the TAv mode dial setting is something only available on Pentax bodies, but it is functionally equivalent to M mode with auto ISO, so most other cameras do support it that way. Adam PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide \| Site Help \| My Photography) PentaxForums.com server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover these costs by donating or purchasing one of our Pentax eBooks. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, KEH, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

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08-12-2015, 08:43 AM	#2
vonBaloney Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 6,029	I think you can get equivalent or close functionality on some other brands/models, but it is a more convoluted path, not just a setting on the dial as with Pentax. I think TAV with EV comp ability will be hard to find on other cameras, but maybe some of them have it now?

08-12-2015, 08:48 AM	#3
boriscleto Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: North Syracuse, NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 16,475	Whenever I talk about TAv to Canikon users they just say "That's just manual mode with auto-iso".

08-12-2015, 08:54 AM	#4
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by boriscleto Whenever I talk about TAv to Canikon users they just say "That's just manual mode with auto-iso". That is my understanding as well. The nice thing about Pentax is that the TAv behavior is always available as a set mode while allowing set ISO for all other modes, particularly M. Steve

08-12-2015, 09:06 AM	#5
wtlwdwgn Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Billings, MT Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,838	The other brands make you go into the custom settings to setup auto ISO while Pentax provides it on the mode dial. Unfortunately though it doesn't work with older manual lenses without an A setting on the f stop ring.

08-12-2015, 09:30 AM	#6
aleonx3 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Brampton, Ontario Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,996	Originally posted by boriscleto Whenever I talk about TAv to Canikon users they just say "That's just manual mode with auto-iso". Originally posted by stevebrot That is my understanding as well. The nice thing about Pentax is that the TAv behavior is always available as a set mode while allowing set ISO for all other modes, particularly M. Steve I don't think it is the same, TAv mode support EV compensation whereas M with auto-ISO does not.... at least that's my understanding after trying it on Nikon D750 (I could be wrong though because I didn't spend a lot of time on it). Similarly, on k-01, it does not have TAv mode but M with auto-ISO.. I also think that it is difficult to implement TAv mode without front-and-rear dial, which Canon DSLR model does not have.

08-12-2015, 09:52 AM	#7
TER-OR Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Dundee, IL Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,699	I like TAv - and M - and being able to switch between them (without menu diving) when you want control over all parameters. Most of the time TAv is what I use, I want to control the primary variables and let the camera deal with the rest.

08-12-2015, 09:52 AM	#8
boriscleto Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: North Syracuse, NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 16,475	Originally posted by aleonx3 I don't think it is the same, TAv mode support EV compensation whereas M with auto-ISO does not.... at least that's my understanding after trying it on Nikon D750 (I could be wrong though because I didn't spend a lot of time on it). Similarly, on k-01, it does not have TAv mode but M with auto-ISO.. I also think that it is difficult to implement TAv mode without front-and-rear dial, which Canon DSLR model does not have. All true. But Canikon users don't see it that way...

08-12-2015, 10:48 AM	#9
TedW Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 241	Originally posted by stevebrot That is my understanding as well. The nice thing about Pentax is that the TAv behavior is always available as a set mode while allowing set ISO for all other modes, particularly M. Steve Bingo! I use both TAv and manual extensively and the idea of having to change from Auto-Iso to set ISO is a non-starter. I normally shoot TAv but If I'm doing something at sunset or later I like to switch to manual mode where I can under or over expose easily using the dials/roller-wheels.

08-12-2015, 10:50 AM - 1 Like	#10
aleonx3 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Brampton, Ontario Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,996	Originally posted by boriscleto All true. But Canikon users don't see it that way... Doesn't bother me whatever Canikon users think or do... not my job to show or convince them.

08-12-2015, 11:53 AM	#11
CarlJF Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Quebec City Posts: 1,185	Originally posted by TedW Bingo! I use both TAv and manual extensively and the idea of having to change from Auto-Iso to set ISO is a non-starter. I normally shoot TAv but If I'm doing something at sunset or later I like to switch to manual mode where I can under or over expose easily using the dials/roller-wheels. For Canikon users, features they don't have are usually considered useless...until they have it! Most funny I heard from them is that IBIS is useless but at the same time will spend extra money to get the stabilized version of their lenses...

08-12-2015, 11:55 AM	#12
Fogel70 Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Photos: Albums Posts: 3,062	Originally posted by aleonx3 I don't think it is the same, TAv mode support EV compensation whereas M with auto-ISO does not.... at least that's my understanding after trying it on Nikon D750 (I could be wrong though because I didn't spend a lot of time on it). Similarly, on k-01, it does not have TAv mode but M with auto-ISO.. I also think that it is difficult to implement TAv mode without front-and-rear dial, which Canon DSLR model does not have. Some Nikon bodies with auto-ISO have EV comp. They have had for some years and I believe D750 has it too. And nowadays it pretty easy to switch between auto/manual ISO on Nikon, just hold ISO-button and turn front wheel. Nikon have some nice features in auto ISO I would like on my Pentax, FI that you can set slowest shutter speed that auto ISO use (or auto like on Pentax), and when adjusting ISO in auto ISO you adjust the lowest ISO in the auto ISO range instead of going back to manual ISO. The auto-ISO functionality have not changed much on Pentax bodies since K-7, but I really hope Ricoh understand that they could make the cameras even more flexible with a few small changes on auto-ISO. - User defined slowest shutter speed, maybe an option for TAv mode. So that you either set an absolute shutter speed, or the lowest shutter speed you want to use so the camera can set faster shutter speed if ISO have reached the lowest ISO and the image risk being overexposed. - Possibility yo change lower and upper limit of auto-ISO without having to enter menus. - Wider range of "auto ISO parameters" instead of slow, normal and fast it could be +-4 stops of nominal shutter speed so can make full use of image stabilization. Or maybe even an auto setting where camera adapt slowest shutter speed depending on focal length and how much camera shake there is.

08-12-2015, 02:17 PM - 2 Likes	#14
6BQ5 Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Nevada, USA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,348	Originally posted by Adam I think the TAv mode dial setting is something only available on Pentax bodies, but it is functionally equivalent to M mode with auto ISO, so most other cameras do support it that way. The Q7 does not have a TAv setting on its mode dial. TAv mode is enabled just as Adam described. Go to Manual mode and enable Auto ISO. The TAv mode icon appears in the upper left hand corner of the display.

08-12-2015, 02:26 PM	#15
boriscleto Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: North Syracuse, NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 16,475	Originally posted by 6BQ5 The Q7 does not have a TAv setting on its mode dial. TAv mode is enabled just as Adam described. Go to Manual mode and enable Auto ISO. The TAv mode icon appears in the upper left hand corner of the display. And the K-01 works the same way. Unfortunately the K-30/50/500 also work the same way even though they have TAv on the mode dial...