Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
02-06-2007, 07:14 PM   #1
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter




Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Bronx NY
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 5,611
Using a "K" lens with the DS

I am the proud owner of a new-to-me K 50/1.2. It is a beautiful little lens but my oh my is it heavy! (for it's size anyways) I'm real excited about owning it, most people who have one say its IQ is the best of all the 50's. I don't know if the extra 1/2 f stop will be that great an advantage over my FA 50/1.4 but we'll see.
This is the first fully manual lens I've ever used. I've tried to read everything I could, and hopefully I've got it down straight, but I still have a question or six.
Settings:
Dial is on M mode
MF is on
Allow aperture ring is on
AE-L is set for Tv shift
Metering is set for center weighted.

Standard shooting procedure:
Dial in aperture on aperture ring
compose picture normally
push AE-L button so camera can meter shot and set shutter
Take picture

Questions
How do you know what aperture to initially set? Are there any rules? Should I get a cheap light meter? Or is this one of those "experience" things. I hate "you'll learn with experience" My experience with that is in the beginning, all I experience are poopy shots.
Now I know I can use the DOF lever to check the shot. I want it as close to 0.0 in the viewfinder as possible. But when do I do this? Before AE-L set or after? Or does it matter?
Suppose I want to take a timed exposure for some reason, (waterfall, night shot, whatever) do I have to go back into the custom menu and change the AE-L setting? Or is there a simpler way?
I've shot all I want to with the K lens and put a DA lens on the camera, and I want to use Av mode. Do I have to go thru and change all the settings? Or can I leave "permit aperture ring" "AE-L to Tv shift" etc where they are, and shoot normally?
Metering Modes; With the K lens on I have a choice of two metering modes in the menu, center weighted and spot. How do I use spot? I'm pretty sure the camera manual says that I have to use center weighted, if that's the case why is there an option to use spot? If I select spot will it work the same way as it does with an FA or DA lens? And a related question, when I remove the lens will the camera stay on center weighted metering (or spot if I've selected that) or do I have to remember to change it to matrix metering if that's what I want?
Thanks for your patience!

Oh! Oh! one final question! Will women recognise that it's a "K" lens and realize that I am a serious photographer dude and a HDM (highly desirable male) and come flocking to my side?

NaCl(a little fantasy never hurt anybody)H2O

02-06-2007, 07:56 PM   #2
Ed in GA
Guest




Hey Saltwater, congrats on getting a great lens.

Unfortunately, I can't answer any of your questions as I have never tried to use a manual lens with my K100D. Which, I'm sure, has a few different control functions than does your camera.

One thing I might be able to answer is your exposure. I think that you have to stop the lens down then set your shutter. My camera has a little octagon that flashes until you get the exposure correct, You may have the same?????

As far as an initial f setting, I don't think there is any rule. But, I would start wide open then go from there.

Good luck with the lens and, I'm sure, someone here can tell you exactly what to do to get a proper exposure with that lens and your fine Camera.


ciao`

Ed
02-06-2007, 08:17 PM   #3
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter




Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Bronx NY
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 5,611
Original Poster
Thanks Eddy, pushing down the AE-L button does stop down the lens. I think that's what you mean anyway, you can even hear the noise as everything in the camera shifts around. I've taken a bunch of test shots around my desk and it does seem to "work as intended". Now all I have to do is find out the other bits.

NaCl(it's "in progress" as they say)H2O
02-06-2007, 08:17 PM   #4
Administrator
Site Webmaster
Adam's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Arizona
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 43,283
Hi Saltwater,

I did my best to answer your questions below, in bold:

QuoteOriginally posted by NaClH2O Quote
Questions
How do you know what aperture to initially set? Are there any rules? Should I get a cheap light meter? Or is this one of those "experience" things. I hate "you'll learn with experience" My experience with that is in the beginning, all I experience are poopy shots.
The camera will be measuring the light, so you don't need an external meter. You can start with any stop on the ring, but if you leave it wide-open, you won't have to press the AE-L/Green button to correctly light the photo.

Now I know I can use the DOF lever to check the shot. I want it as close to 0.0 in the viewfinder as possible. But when do I do this? Before AE-L set or after? Or does it matter?
You can check the DOF anytime, just like with any other lens. No worries there...

Suppose I want to take a timed exposure for some reason, (waterfall, night shot, whatever) do I have to go back into the custom menu and change the AE-L setting? Or is there a simpler way?

The AE-L/Green button will simply get the camera to correctly light the shot. Press it, select 2/12 seconds, and just take the shot!

I've shot all I want to with the K lens and put a DA lens on the camera, and I want to use Av mode. Do I have to go thru and change all the settings? Or can I leave "permit aperture ring" "AE-L to Tv shift" etc where they are, and shoot normally?

Just leave the setting as it is- you won't have to worry about this at all if you just use DA lenses. If you have FA, DFA, or A lenses, always remember to keep the aperture ring in the "A" position. If you don't, you run the risk of the camera assuming that you're shooting wide-open, and as a result your photos will be overexposed. Resetting the option to disallow settings other than A will force you to go back and forth in the menu

Metering Modes; With the K lens on I have a choice of two metering modes in the menu, center weighted and spot. How do I use spot? I'm pretty sure the camera manual says that I have to use center weighted, if that's the case why is there an option to use spot? If I select spot will it work the same way as it does with an FA or DA lens?

Not 100% sure on this one myself...

And a related question, when I remove the lens will the camera stay on center weighted metering (or spot if I've selected that) or do I have to remember to change it to matrix metering if that's what I want?
Thanks for your patience!

It'll remember it if you've selected metering to be rememberd via the "memory" menu.

Oh! Oh! one final question! Will women recognise that it's a "K" lens and realize that I am a serious photographer dude and a HDM (highly desirable male) and come flocking to my side?

Sadly, most can't tell the difference unless you're walking around with a huge (600mm) lens on a tripod

NaCl(a little fantasy never hurt anybody)H2O
Hope this helps


Adam
PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide | Site Help | My Photography)



PentaxForums.com's high server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover those costs by donating. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

02-06-2007, 08:25 PM   #5
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter




Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Bronx NY
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 5,611
Original Poster
Thanks Mo. You've answered most of my Q's. One of them I wasn't clear on. When I was talking about using the DOF lever I meant looking into the viewfinder, not for DOF but for the -3.0/3.0 exposure on the far right. I know that I want it as close to 0.0 as possible, my question is when do I check for this exposure?
Also leaving it wide open is an option certainly, but the DOF on f1.2 is exceedingly narrow.

NaCl(thanks for all the info)H2O
02-06-2007, 08:39 PM   #6
Inactive Account




Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Göteborg, Sweden
Posts: 810
QuoteOriginally posted by NaClH2O Quote
Now I know I can use the DOF lever to check the shot. I want it as close to 0.0 in the viewfinder as possible. But when do I do this? Before AE-L set or after? Or does it matter?
It doesn't matter. Remember you are in manual mode: Nothing wil change until you change it. You change the shutter time by pressing the AE-L button, or by turning the wheel. You change the aperture by turning the ring. Activating the DOF lever stops the lens down and reads the light. Whenever or any time. Nothing else happens.

QuoteOriginally posted by NaClH2O Quote
Oh! Oh! one final question! Will women recognise that it's a "K" lens and realize that I am a serious photographer dude and a HDM (highly desirable male) and come flocking to my side?
There are two ways you can look at this:
If the girl doesn't notice you have an f/1.2 lens you don't want to get too close anyway.
The other view is that any lens would do, really. If they react to an f/1.2 lens only they are probably kinky in other areas as well. You have to investigate this before you marry. If they are interested for a brief moment only you know you are lost; they know the lens you really should have is the Noctilux 50/1.0.

QuoteOriginally posted by NaClH2O Quote
Metering Modes; With the K lens on I have a choice of two metering modes in the menu, center weighted and spot. How do I use spot? I'm pretty sure the camera manual says that I have to use center weighted, if that's the case why is there an option to use spot? If I select spot will it work the same way as it does with an FA or DA lens?
This you can easily test for yourself. You'll find that spot metering is okey and that it works just the way you are used to.

Hmm... strange... I thought you had bought the A50/1.2?! Maybe I misread some earlier post. Was this the one from KEH?

regards, and good luck!
02-06-2007, 08:43 PM   #7
Administrator
Site Webmaster
Adam's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Arizona
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 43,283
QuoteOriginally posted by NaClH2O Quote
Thanks Mo. You've answered most of my Q's. One of them I wasn't clear on. When I was talking about using the DOF lever I meant looking into the viewfinder, not for DOF but for the -3.0/3.0 exposure on the far right. I know that I want it as close to 0.0 as possible, my question is when do I check for this exposure?
Also leaving it wide open is an option certainly, but the DOF on f1.2 is exceedingly narrow.

NaCl(thanks for all the info)H2O
As Jonas said, you can stop the lens down any time to check the exposure, but nothing will actually be adjusted unless you press AE-L.

The viewfinder will always be at F1.2, so you'll have to deal with the narrow DOF when composing your photos. It's not that bad, though, especially when you're shooting at night!

Adam
PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide | Site Help | My Photography)



PentaxForums.com's high server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover those costs by donating. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

02-06-2007, 09:05 PM   #8
Veteran Member
Alvin's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,530
Congrats on your purchase Saltwater! I've been tooling with the K-series 55 mm f/2 and was stunned with the IQ coming off the 55 mm - I'm sure the 50's are better.

02-06-2007, 09:14 PM   #9
Administrator
Site Webmaster
Adam's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Arizona
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 43,283
Both the K and A F1.2 50mm's are great lenses, and they're identical optically.

Here's what I could pull off with my A 50mm/1.2: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/post-your-photos/2934-noctilux-photos.html

Adam
PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide | Site Help | My Photography)



PentaxForums.com's high server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover those costs by donating. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

02-06-2007, 11:08 PM   #10
Inactive Account




Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Folsom, CA
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 322
You don't need to change the metering mode - by mounting the K lens, it automatically switches to Center Weighted (if you had Matrix before). You can change to Spot if you want.

Aperture is an interesting one - it is sort of an experience thing - think about what depth of field you want - thats where I would start, then adjust shutter speed to get 0 EV (or as close as you can).

If you use the DOF Lever to check DOF, it meters the same as using the AE-L button, you don't need to push it.... very nice



This has been my experience at least - with my M50/1.7
02-06-2007, 11:51 PM   #11
Veteran Member
-=JoN=-'s Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,000
i say just ignore the camera setting the shutter and run manually all the way.

test how your knowledge. use the meter, still as a base point then run from there....

aperture...for me it depends on what im shooting and how much light is available. for landscapes, i start off at f/8 or so, the work from there, etc, etc.....

lucky us, we have digital camera's so we can just keep shooting, and adjusting...imagine film...shoot..crap...thats money down the drain....

have fun w/ that lens...

and congrats on it
02-07-2007, 12:21 AM   #12
Veteran Member
Ivan Glisin's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Belgrade
Posts: 656
Spot metering: my approach (all lenses)

Spot metering is the best way to go in any mode and with any lens if you have several seconds to actually use it. Here are my procedures I use with all lenses (including K and M) and spot metering:

Mapping average tone (simple approach, I need 2-3 seconds to complete these steps):
  1. Point spot meter at a medium gray area (gray road or grass for example)
  2. Press AE-L to set correct Tv
  3. Reframe and take a picture

Mapping tonal values (greater precision but requires more time, I need 5-10 seconds to complete the following sequence):
  1. Point spot meter at your subject (avoid specular highlights: light sources or reflections of light sources)
  2. Previsualize desired result (yes, as per Ansel Adams). What do you want it to be? Black, very dark gray, dark gray, medium gray, light gray, very light gray of bright white?
  3. Press AE-L to set Tv for 0.0 reading. That means medium gray. Then adjust shutter speed and/or aperture to -3 for black, -2 for very dark gray, -1 for dark gray, +1 for light gray, +2 for very light gray almost white or +3 for bright white
  4. While you learn all this stop down with DOF to verify reading is correct (-3 to 3). With practice you will get accustomed to setting 0.0 with AE-L and then simply rotating aperture ring or rear dial for enough "clicks" to set from -3 to +3 without rechecking
  5. Explore the scene using the spot meter (hold DOF with K and M lenses, no need for that for other lenses). Monitor the reading: are clouds +2.5? Light skin color +1.0? Grass field around 0.0? That shade under the tree -1.5? Black car on the parking -2.5? If so, then good -- your CCD is going to be happy! (If not, go back to step 2 or even step 1: select different area on the subject).
  6. Reframe and take a picture

Note: If you try and understand this procedure, you will also understand how metering works, how sensor works, how to control dynamic range, how matrix metering works and why matrix metering is not perfect, and finally, you will understand why cameras sometimes underexpose, sometimes overexpose and sometimes do the thing right (in "auto" modes). Highly recommended for every serious photographer.

Maximizing dynamic range and S/N ratio (RAW only, requires post processing):
  1. Point at the brightest area in a scene
  2. Press AE-L -- sets initial Tv
  3. Rotate rear dial and/or aperture ring to compensate by +2.5 to +3.0 stops
  4. Reframe and take a picture

Note that you do not need histogram with any of described procedures. Once you learn how your particular camera maps meter reading to actual tones on the final image (could be +/-0.5 to my recommended values) you are in charge and it is possible to entirely eliminate exposure errors.

Questions are welcome.

-= IVAN =-
02-07-2007, 12:34 AM   #13
Veteran Member
Mike Cash's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Japan
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 6,952
I have the K100d, together with the standard kit lens, of course, and an auto-focus FA J 75-300 zoom. I also purchased from KEH a 50mm f2 (A) and a 135mm f2.5 (M), both manual focus.

The auto-focus zooms actually spend very little time mounted on the camera in my daily shooting. Even though both of my somewhat-elderly manual lenses enjoy less than stellar reputations for quality, I find I prefer them to the autos. Unless I just absolutely have to have the speed to quickly grab a target of opportunity I leave the manual focus lenses mounted. (And that 135mm weighs a ton, by the way).

My experience with them tells me that in the future I should endeavor to get the A model of a lens whenever possible. Eliminating the manual metering part of the shooting process makes the extra expenditure worthwhile, I think. In the future I hope to pick up a wide-angle lens, something around 75-85mm, and a 200mm, all A models. When I manage that, the kit lens is definitely coming out of the bag and going on the shelf, and the 75-300 may well follow close behind it.

In addition to the extra quality of the primes, I enjoy the added challenge of working with the manual features and the lack of ability to rely on the zoom for framing. It cuts down on my taking too many crappy shots of opportunity, a very bad habit I have. And for those good "keeper" shots I can always come home and crop them as needed.

As you get more accustomed to working with the manual lenses, you may just come to find that you prefer them. (Although, admittedly, one does find one's self desperately wishing that the focussing screens were more accomodating of manual focus).
02-07-2007, 06:07 AM   #14
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter




Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Bronx NY
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 5,611
Original Poster
Yep Jonas this is the one. I thought it was an A 50/1.2 also. It was only listed as 50/1.2 no A or K. I knew that I had to act quickly and so didn't research as thoroughly as I should have. I was under the impression at the time that Pentax had only made an A 50/1.2, so that's what I posted. I didn't realize that they made a K 50/1.2 until I checked with Bojidar's site. So I'm a little bummed that it's not as "easy" as I hoped, but I still have high expectations. I'm taking it over to the Conservatory at the NY Botanical Gardens this PM after work for a test run. I may even sneak out early!

NaCl(you should see some pics tonight)H2O

Last edited by NaClH2O; 02-07-2007 at 06:09 AM. Reason: spelling!
02-07-2007, 06:32 AM   #15
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter




Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Bronx NY
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 5,611
Original Poster
Thanks Ivan! I'll print this out now and carry it with me this afternoon! Sounds like your second set is a good thorough procedure. I'll try it later on today.

NaCl(such a wealth of knowledge on this site)H2O
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
ae-l, aperture, camera, center, change, dslr, lens, menu, photography, question, shot, spot
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Post your "Park Bench" "or "Picnic Table" images tessfully Mini-Challenges, Games, and Photo Stories 1440 16 Hours Ago 10:18 AM
Do custom "artistic" or even "funny" lens caps evenexist? lovemehate Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 35 02-10-2016 09:10 AM
Which Zoom Lens? "Tamron AF 18-250mm", "Pentax-DA 18-250mm" or "Sigma 18-250mm" hoomanshb Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 4 07-30-2010 09:50 AM
K-mount Experts: How to convert a "KAF2" lens to "KF"? panoguy Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 24 07-08-2010 05:20 PM
"Hunger for a DA*50-135?" or "The DA*50-135 as a bird lens!" or "Iron age birds?" Douglas_of_Sweden Post Your Photos! 4 08-13-2008 06:09 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:01 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top