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11-09-2015, 09:47 AM   #136
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QuoteOriginally posted by jeffryscott Quote
How can such a "rugged" lens fail so catastrophically?
Honestly, it really doesn't take that much. My "rugged" Nikkor 24-70mm had a minor fall while packed in a backpack and I had to send it in for repair. $350 later it came back good as new. The difference is less in the ruggedness in their lenses than their repair system is not in the same league as CaNikon's. If you are going to compare them to something like prime Leica lenses then the problem may be in your expectations: $1000 lens vs. $5000 lens!!!

Michael

11-09-2015, 10:05 AM   #137
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QuoteOriginally posted by MJSfoto1956 Quote
Honestly, it really doesn't take that much. My "rugged" Nikkor 24-70mm had a minor fall while packed in a backpack and I had to send it in for repair. $350 later it came back good as new. The difference is less in the ruggedness in their lenses than their repair system is not in the same league as CaNikon's. If you are going to compare them to something like prime Leica lenses then the problem may be in your expectations: $1000 lens vs. $5000 lens!!!

Michael
Sorry, nothing wrong with my expectations. I've been using cameras for 40 years. I know damage can occur with any fall, but seriously? Beyond Economic Repair for this fall is Beyond Belief. If this lens model can't take a fall like it did, no way could I trust it for the type of professional use I once did. I shouldn't have to pamper a lens in order to trust using it in day to day life.

I'm just extremely frustrated at the moment. The difference with your repair vs mine is yours was fixed. Mine, according to Precision, is Beyond Economic Repair. How frustrated would you have been had yours come back BER?

To me, it is unbelievable given the fall and supposed build quality of this lens, that it can't be repaired.
11-09-2015, 10:13 AM   #138
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QuoteOriginally posted by jeffryscott Quote
Well, my 60-250 repair is a failure. Beyond Economic Repair. This for an $800 dollar lens I barely used and that fell maybe two feet, probably less than 18-inches. How can such a "rugged" lens fail so catastrophically? There isn't an external mark on it.

Rant: I was close to buying the 150-450, but no way will I invest in expensive Pentax glass if they are this fragile. I've extensively and professionally used Nikon, Canon, Olympus, Leica, etc ... over the years and not once have had such a failure from such a minimal event. The local repair person I first took it to told me how fragile the Pentax lenses were, but I didn't really believe they were this fragile. Now, maybe I do.
I'm not sure any brand has "durable" lenses for AF etc. The lack of repair parts is more likely the culprit.

I would suggest buying 3rd party warranty drop/replacement insurance to make whatever brand easier to deal with.
11-09-2015, 10:18 AM   #139
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QuoteOriginally posted by jeffryscott Quote
I'm just extremely frustrated at the moment. The difference with your repair vs mine is yours was fixed. Mine, according to Precision, is Beyond Economic Repair. How frustrated would you have been had yours come back BER?
I too would be frustrated beyond words. I'm thinking that perhaps it might be worth trying KEH? (they are good guys)

Michael

11-09-2015, 10:22 AM   #140
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QuoteOriginally posted by MJSfoto1956 Quote
I too would be frustrated beyond words. I'm thinking that perhaps it might be worth trying KEH? (they are good guys)

Michael
Sadly, KEH told me it would need to go to Precision.
11-09-2015, 10:34 AM - 1 Like   #141
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I think we are in the inevitable transition to DSLRs as consumables. Not unlike what has happened to mobile phones and stereo equipment.

There will be a handful of "professional" camera manufacturers wherein much of the cost of future repairs is folded into the cost of the gear (essentially an insurance policy) -- thereby making it expensive up front. For the rest of the "non pro" photo industry, our cherished gear is increasingly going to be unrepairable and thus disposable.

Sad but true I'm afraid.

Michael
11-09-2015, 11:16 AM   #142
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Yeah... my DA*50-135 fell four feet (tripod mount fell apart). After which both It and the camera still worked flawlessly.

The DA*16-50 on the other hand, will jam simply by resting the lens on its side. No bumps. No hard knocks. Just resting.
I've gone through several of them all with the same issue... That lens is a complete fail.
11-09-2015, 07:32 PM   #143
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I've had mine fall from a car seat to the ground and off a chair, with no damage either time. You were unlucky.

11-10-2015, 04:47 PM   #144
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So the factory experts at Precision couldn't even reassemble my lens correctly, notice the hood. Since they say they can't fix it, it isn't worth sending it back.

In the meantime, I thought I would play with it as a soft-focus portrait lens but discovered the lens is sharp at F8, but still soft at F4. I still can't believe that this lens isn't fixable.
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11-10-2015, 09:51 PM   #145
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QuoteOriginally posted by jeffryscott Quote
So the factory experts at Precision couldn't even reassemble my lens correctly, notice the hood. Since they say they can't fix it, it isn't worth sending it back.

In the meantime, I thought I would play with it as a soft-focus portrait lens but discovered the lens is sharp at F8, but still soft at F4. I still can't believe that this lens isn't fixable.
First - I would tell Precision that I was entirely unhappy. The fact that the lens is misassembled is a problem. You don't know if they just were incompetent or if the lens is beyond repair. I think it is time to get Pentax HQ on the phone and raise heck. The fact is that in no way does that reflect on Pentax well. AT the very least they should know about this.
11-11-2015, 12:56 PM   #146
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Just got off the phone with Joe Virgil at Ricoh. I'd emailed Ricoh the day I got the lens back and it was forwarded to him. He was able to talk with Precision about the lens and apparently the cost of the parts needed surpasses the value of the lens. At least I got an answer and when I mentioned how it wasn't put back together correctly, he offered to issue me a shipping label to send it back to at least be put together properly.

While I'm not satisfied with the lens not being repairable, kudos to Ricoh's Joe Virgil for reaching out to explain and discuss the situation.
11-11-2015, 01:00 PM   #147
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QuoteOriginally posted by jeffryscott Quote
Just got off the phone with Joe Virgil at Ricoh. I'd emailed Ricoh the day I got the lens back and it was forwarded to him. He was able to talk with Precision about the lens and apparently the cost of the parts needed surpasses the value of the lens. At least I got an answer and when I mentioned how it wasn't put back together correctly, he offered to issue me a shipping label to send it back to at least be put together properly.

While I'm not satisfied with the lens not being repairable, kudos to Ricoh's Joe Virgil for reaching out to explain and discuss the situation.
Good. But they need to fire that company.
11-11-2015, 09:42 PM   #148
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QuoteOriginally posted by jeffryscott Quote
Just got off the phone with Joe Virgil at Ricoh. I'd emailed Ricoh the day I got the lens back and it was forwarded to him. He was able to talk with Precision about the lens and apparently the cost of the parts needed surpasses the value of the lens. At least I got an answer and when I mentioned how it wasn't put back together correctly, he offered to issue me a shipping label to send it back to at least be put together properly.

While I'm not satisfied with the lens not being repairable, kudos to Ricoh's Joe Virgil for reaching out to explain and discuss the situation.

I don't understand the cost of parts vs value of lens issue -- if you are paying out of pocket, why didn't they quote you a price to repair with an itemized list of parts and labor? If you are having it serviced under warranty, why would they even mention cost of repair? Either way they shouldn't have just mailed it back.. did you at least get your shipping fees rectified?

What, specifically, did Precision state is wrong with the lens? From the photos and the fact that it does get fairly sharp at f/8, it seems more like an alignment issue with the elements than anything.. they should have all of the calibration tools necessary to fix that... at least one would think.
11-11-2015, 10:18 PM   #149
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Beyond economic repair is simply the cost of the parts and labor costs exceeding the value of the lens. Probably would have been professional of them to point out the cost of the various items needed to repair and for you to make the decision whether you want that done or to buy another lens in its place. Happens with cars all the time, and yes not nice, but as the cost of labor is growing and the cost of new items going down this problem is only going to increase unless you own a Leica.

Even after saying that parts for the 60-250 must be expensive.
11-12-2015, 04:58 AM   #150
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
I don't understand the cost of parts vs value of lens issue -- if you are paying out of pocket, why didn't they quote you a price to repair with an itemized list of parts and labor? If you are having it serviced under warranty, why would they even mention cost of repair? Either way they shouldn't have just mailed it back.. did you at least get your shipping fees rectified?

What, specifically, did Precision state is wrong with the lens? From the photos and the fact that it does get fairly sharp at f/8, it seems more like an alignment issue with the elements than anything.. they should have all of the calibration tools necessary to fix that... at least one would think.
Precision didn't tell me anything, or charge me anything, there was just one line on the invoice "Returned unrepaired, BER." Joe was able to talk with them and they apparently told him the number of parts necessary to fix it was too many and the cost was too high. Precision offers flat rate repair pricing, so I don't think the customer has a choice, I think the BER is for Precision, not the customer.

I also think, and have no direct knowledge, that like many things, components are replaced in whole. It seems as though one element is out of alignment, and instead of fixing one element, the whole lens grouping must be replaced. As someone previously mentioned, these things are becoming consumable items, not durable goods that can and should be repairable.

All in all, a very frustrating experience. And my homeowners insurance won't do anything because I dropped it, so it is wear and tear. Huh? I'm going to add a full inland marine policy so this doesn't happen again. I thought I was covered with the rider, but apparently not for this type of damage.

The biggest shame is it was such a lovely lens.
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