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09-09-2015, 03:05 AM   #136
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I think this thread has gone bit off line considering the op post ,but here is a thought since as far as I know we do not know what the mp will be of the Pentax FF [if it even exists], but its bound to be more than 36 mp this discussion should be referring to the A7RII which is 42 mp , more likely the sort of mp the pentax ff will be.

09-09-2015, 05:27 AM   #137
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sliver-Surfer Quote
or put on a 1.4x tc
What happens when you want to get the same effect as a 50mm at f1.2 on a FF in a small room with aps-c DSLR?
If you want that, buy a full frame, anyone else, save your money. You can put a 1.4 TC on your APS-c camera on your 400 and you're still ahead. What is wrong with you people' Seriously.

I shot a couple of macros a couple of days ago, at every f-stop from 2.8 to F22, and the winners were, ƒ4 and ƒ11. That is after actually sitting down with all the images and examining them to see which I wanted to use. So my point is, after a day's shooting I didn't select a single images suggesting I needed a full frame, for any reason. It wouldn't have lessened my noise, increased my total light, narrowed my DoF given me more flexibility, except I would have wasted more time creating one more throw away, if I had an FF. I was using the Tamron 90 macro, a full frame lens, but, used on an FF I would have had half the magnification I got using the same lens on APS-c. The 24 MP would have been spread over twice the image size.

I get really tired of this kind of argument.

QuoteQuote:
or put on a 1.4x tc
Really? You think that's the same? You just turned an ƒ4 into an ƒ5.6 lens. It blows me away that people can say stuff like that with a straight face. In what kind of myopic world, do people pretend stuff like that is the same? The world where folks haven't done these things and just want to talk shit. I actually own a TC and use it. I don't have to make up stuff, I'm well aware of the problems associated with shooting with a TC.

QuoteQuote:
What happens when you want to get the same effect as a 50mm at f1.2 on a FF in a small room with aps-c DSLR?
What happens if you don't ever want that? You've carried a huge FF system with a huge ƒ1,2 lens around with your for years because in your warped perspective of phtography, you think someday you might want that. Kind of like driving around a logging truck with a loading arm, because someday you might find a tree down across the road. Ya, you're right, it could happen. There could be a storm, a tree could fall down across the road, and the right vehicle might enable you move it out of the way. But are you really going to drive around a piece of heavy equipment just in case?

But, I'm with you on this. If you work removing trees from highways, you better have that truck, and if your photography lives in FF ƒ1.2 land, then you better have that FF and that huge lens, and there are probably some guys like that, and you might be one of them, so, we are prepared to cut you a little slack. You might have a legitimate case, for yourself personally, but, the number of people I've seen proposing that they are one of those people who has to have ƒ1.2 on FF, for most of them, they are married to a concept. It has little to do with the images they take. Kind of like a guy walking around in a lumber jack jacket because he thinks he would be better prepared for life, if he drove around in a logging truck with a chain saw on the passenger seat. Now if it's a guy in a lumber jack jacket, you'd be thinking, "that's a little geeky" wouldn't you? Unless he was actually a lumber jack. We have a pile of people around here claiming to be lumber jacks.

Last edited by normhead; 09-09-2015 at 06:50 AM.
09-09-2015, 06:18 AM - 1 Like   #138
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There will always be arguments on both sides... end of the day they are all just tools. Enjoy them for what they are and be open minded. In the end is what you can do with them that matters.

I love my a7II for my M lenses... would of been nice to be a Pentax, but is not. Is still just a tool that I enjoy using. And I'm not going to get rid of it just because a FF Pentax is coming along. At least not until my A7II is dust (and it won't be anytime soon because it is well built).





Pictures taken with the K-01... what is that saying to you!?

There is place for anything. Choose the camera based on its options and what works for you and your type of photography. Please, stop being brand agnostic... love photography and be open minded.

Last edited by mrNewt; 09-09-2015 at 06:53 AM.
09-09-2015, 06:46 AM - 1 Like   #139
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Really? You think that's the same? You just turned an ƒ4 into an ƒ5.6 lens. It blows me away that people can say stuff like that with a straight face. In what kind of myopic world, do people pretend stuff like that is the same? The world where folks haven't done these things and just want to talk shit. I actually own a TC and use it. I don't have to make up stuff, I'm well aware of the problems associated with shooting with a TC.
I own TCs they are crap on aps-c like normhead says..but great on FF
I own a FF A7
I own 2 Pentax aps-c cameras K5 KX ( I use them for macro)
not making stuff up I use both systems they both have their places but cmon stop being delusional



09-09-2015, 07:14 AM   #140
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QuoteQuote:
I own TCs they are crap on aps-c like normhead says..but great on FF
Wow, that's not what I said.

I said you lose a stop of light, same on FF as on APS-c.
My HD DA 1.4 TC on my DA*60-250 is hardly crap. The measured 3% loss in resolution with the Pentax 1.4 is roughly the same resolution you'd lose, going from a 400 to a 600mm lens. But, I guess you are right for the TCs you own. Although I've always found the argument that you can use inferior gear on an FF somewhat misleading as well. Why would you want to use inferior gear?

Who needs to stop being delusional?

But, since you use both systems, how about taking some time to post a few pictures that show us what you're talking about?

This usually where someone figures out an inappropriate use of APS-c and posts a picture taken with an FF that could only be taken with an FF, but lets see something that's apples and apples. ƒ4 to ƒ11, same DoF, same MP sensor, lets see that FF advantage.

Last edited by normhead; 09-09-2015 at 07:21 AM.
09-09-2015, 11:43 AM   #141
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
But, since you use both systems, how about taking some time to post a few pictures that show us what you're talking about?
Ok here is one from Pentax-F 1.7/50mm at 1.7 on k5
and one on Minolta Maxxum 1.7/50mm at 1.7 with Rokkor 1.4 TC and Sony LEA4 on my Sony A7 both at iso 80 and 1/500 so really putting a tc on is a feasible solution to get the extra reach
***hours later And one Rokinon 1.4/85mm canon eos mount on macro focusing helicoid e-mount adapter On Sony A7 at Iso 80 1/250th f2.8
They are both film era lenses from the roughly same time I did no PP other than slight WB in both to get the colours equal and minimal cropping to get the photos lined up
Attached Images
     

Last edited by Sliver-Surfer; 09-09-2015 at 02:41 PM.
09-09-2015, 11:58 AM   #142
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sliver-Surfer Quote
Ok here is one from Pentax-F 1.7/50mm at 1.7 on k5
and one on Minolta Maxxum 1.7/50mm at 1.7 with Rokkor 1.4 TC and Sony LEA4 on my Sony A7 both at iso 80 and 1/500 so really putting a tc on is a feasible solution to get the extra reach
They are both film era lenses from the roughly same time I did no PP other than slight WB in both to get the colours equal and minimal cropping to get the photos lined up
Which is which? I like the first one...
09-09-2015, 12:29 PM   #143
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Really? You think that's the same? You just turned an ƒ4 into an ƒ5.6 lens. It blows me away that people can say stuff like that with a straight face. In what kind of myopic world, do people pretend stuff like that is the same? The world where folks haven't done these things and just want to talk shit. I actually own a TC and use it. I don't have to make up stuff, I'm well aware of the problems associated with shooting with a TC.
if you have to buy a 600mm lens its going to increase aperture value is in not the general rule?


Last edited by Sliver-Surfer; 09-09-2015 at 12:44 PM.
09-09-2015, 12:59 PM   #144
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Well, I just posted the same post but referred to the Nikon 810, and was shot down like flames to some users for even mentioning the thought. I too have the k5 and I feel your anxious pain. I have come to the conclusion with the help of some great feedback on this forum that it's better to wait till the FF Pentax comes out and see how it performs.
09-09-2015, 03:21 PM - 1 Like   #145
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Wow, that's not what I said.
wow, it's exactly what you said, because you've never owned a ff digital camera.

you are trying to argue with people who, unlike you, actually own and shoot both formats

you and nicolas06 keep trotting out the same failed arguments, over and over... neither one of you have any experience to base your opinions on.
09-09-2015, 03:30 PM - 3 Likes   #146
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As so many other speculative threads, this has become an exercise in fabulous pontificating Until we actually HAVE a Pentax FF I fail to understand the value of this and so many other threads like it.

Last edited by monochrome; 09-09-2015 at 04:34 PM.
09-09-2015, 05:12 PM - 1 Like   #147
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Quote: What happens when you want to get the same effect as a 50mm at f1.2 on a FF in a small room with aps-c DSLR? What happens if you don't ever want that? You've carried a huge FF system with a huge ƒ1,2 lens around with your for years because in your warped perspective of phtography, you think someday you might want that. Kind of like driving around a logging truck with a loading arm, because someday you might find a tree down across the road. Ya, you're right, it could happen. There could be a storm, a tree could fall down across the road, and the right vehicle might enable you move it out of the way. But are you really going to drive around a piece of heavy equipment just in case? But, I'm with you on this. If you work removing trees from highways, you better have that truck, and if your photography lives in FF ƒ1.2 land, then you better have that FF and that huge lens, and there are probably some guys like that, and you might be one of them, so, we are prepared to cut you a little slack. You might have a legitimate case, for yourself personally, but, the number of people I've seen proposing that they are one of those people who has to have ƒ1.2 on FF, for most of them, they are married to a concept. It has little to do with the images they take. Kind of like a guy walking around in a lumber jack jacket because he thinks he would be better prepared for life, if he drove around in a logging truck with a chain saw on the passenger seat. Now if it's a guy in a lumber jack jacket, you'd be thinking, "that's a little geeky" wouldn't you? Unless he was actually a lumber jack. We have a pile of people around here claiming to be lumber jacks.
I take this as you don't know the answer to my question. My Pentax 50/1.2 is not huge at all and I use it very often it's my go to lens for most of my work.
This image: House was dimly lit and I didn't want to use flash because of baby. Hes lit by window covered with blinds. Shes lit by single chandleir 8ft away



OooH inside Cold War submarine no way I could have gotten this shot without my 1.2

Last edited by Sliver-Surfer; 09-09-2015 at 05:24 PM.
09-09-2015, 05:42 PM - 3 Likes   #148
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K50/1.2 on K5II shot at 1.2..... quick shot taken 5 minutes ago.....I only have dogs on hand.


Billy.jpg
by Noel Leahy, on Flickr

I'm not buying into the "this versus that" discussion...... however I am amazed at how versatile the APSC format is. Oh yeah, and I have my money set aside for the FF mostly because of the field of view I'll "unlock" with my wider lenses...... and just because I can.....not because Pentax APSC gear can't do anything.

Quick shot whilst walking the dogs F*300 plus keno 1.4 tc

The watcher.jpg
by Noel Leahy, on Flickr

Seriously, I'm an average hobby duffus and the APSC gear delivers this for me......

Last edited by noelpolar; 09-09-2015 at 05:50 PM.
09-09-2015, 06:13 PM - 2 Likes   #149
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More: Dudes - it's just a decision. Nobody wins - nobody loses.

I'm buying many legacy K-series lenses with the money I had set aside in my PayPal account to pre-order the FF. After this last week of lens-gorging I'll have to wait another year. Does that make monochrome, Mr. 'Ricoh has a Plan' a bad guy - a turncoat, false prophet, a Luddite? Eh. I'll have a boatload of fun using the lenses instead of a boatload of fun using one camera, so I don't care. I have another windfall coming next year - I'll buy it then.

I don't want an A7 at all. No argument, no specifications, no magic jpeg conversion algorithm, no web image, no print, nothing will convince me to WANT to mount an adapter on an ergonomic MX, mount my lenses on the adapter, manually focus them with an EVF to my eye (all of them - even my Limiteds) - and have Sony on the front to boot.

I especially don't want to be associated with Sony.

I don't want it. Simple. It isn't better than the K-3. I won't enjoy using it.

What? Nope. Doesn't matter. I don't want it.
09-09-2015, 06:15 PM - 1 Like   #150
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I'm buying many legacy K-series lenses with the money I had set aside in my PayPal account to pre-order the FF.
Exact same thing happened to me...saving for camera but tempted by K85 then 50/1.2 then 30/2.8 ....resistance is futile!

oooh K28/2........

Last edited by noelpolar; 09-09-2015 at 06:24 PM.
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