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09-14-2015, 05:11 AM   #241
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I've been vascilateing between potentially pentax FF or getting the HD DFA 150-450 in the first instance..... anyway....just ordered a HD DFA 150-450 having decided I like nature more than people!

Eventually It will probably end up on a Pentax FF camera...... then it will give me a "hybrid*" focal range of 100-675mm.......about spot on for what I want......

*and I'm not going to bother explaining that term....


Last edited by noelpolar; 09-14-2015 at 05:24 AM.
09-14-2015, 05:27 AM   #242
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QuoteOriginally posted by ACG Quote
These are crops from the a7r. The birds were taken with the K85 1.8 and k35 3.5 and the bees with the m100 f4 macro.
Does one really need huge cumbersome long lenses for wildlife when they there is such an ability to crop and retain detail??
I can only imagine the resolution from the 42 and 50 MP sensors
A couple of comparisons for you.... I'm glad you posted these, not that the comparisons are in any way controlled but

FF cropped Starling...


APS_c un-cropped.


FF smaller bird


APS_c smaller bird...


With all due respect, the cropped FF images aren't in the same league. Even though in the case of the Boreal Chickadee, that image was cropped from 6000 pixels wide, to 4500 pixels wide, so I got the benefit of more resolution, plus I could still crop. I've cropped this image to 15.1 MP, the size of a 36 MP crop image, and, I get a better image. This is a dead horse, I don't know why you guys keep flogging it.

I can't believe you guys go on an on with your "my camera is better at everything than your camera " mentality. I guess it never occurred to you, "different sensor size, means different strengths and weaknesses." The smaller pixels of a 24 MP crop sensor means larger magnification, more DoF, and more resolution of the subject, using the same lens. So, no you can't just crop an FF image and get the same thing.


Last edited by normhead; 09-14-2015 at 05:53 AM.
09-14-2015, 06:12 AM   #243
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the first and third pictures have less chromatic abberation, better bokeh, better colour, less noise and better microcontrast. You can see the fine back feathers on the shoulders of 3rd bird but no definition on the back feathers on the chickadee they are mottled together but I think it because the camera focused on the branch the chicadee is sitting on.

The smaller an Item is cropped the larger the flaws with lenses become, effecting:
Micro Contrast
Chromatic abberation
Flare
Glow
Bokeh
Motion Blur

Last edited by Sliver-Surfer; 09-14-2015 at 06:30 AM.
09-14-2015, 06:20 AM   #244
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ian Stuart Forsyth Quote
da 40mm 2620 lw/ph
da 70 2706 lw/ph
Fa 43 2627 lw/ph
DA 35 2723 lw/ph
Average 2637 lw/ph so we see a very even resolution that the aps-c has

How about we compare it to a 16mp APS H with prime lenses
When we crop the D3X to 16mp it works out to be a camera with a 1.225 crop factor close to (aps h), this works out rather well as I have the same scaling when using a 36mpFF and crop it to 24mp it would work out to also a 1.225 crop.


24mm G 3933lw/ph cropped by 1.225 gives us 3210lw/ph
85mm 1.8 G 3872lw/ph ---------- 3160 lw/ph
50mm F1.8 G 3926lw/ph --------- 3234 lw/ph
28mm 1.8 G 3920lw/ph ---------- 3200 lw/ph

Average 3201 lw/ph so as you can see there is clearly an advantage to using a larger sensor( with only a aps h not a FF size sensor) with regard to resolution. For the most part that’s a resolution increase far greater than we see going from apsc kit zoom to many of the primes available for apsc and we see many folk that would consider it a worthwhile upgrade going from a kit zoom to prime (no squinting required)
Somehow I read this as Pentax should have made an aps-h camera and put it in the market against other brands aps-c offertes as the best camera to buy.

09-14-2015, 06:32 AM - 3 Likes   #245
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Ron? Do you have some software that flags when anyone anywhere on the forum says something about APS-H?
09-14-2015, 09:42 AM   #246
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
Planning to go, so I seriously document on the subject. You need fast lenses (usually safari is made near sunrise or sunset) and both short and long lenses. My understanding is 300mm APSC is enough except if you plan for birds where the usuall 500mm+ lenses do quite help.

For information, I think there no windows in a jeep and when you walk, there no car at all. If you do camping, there chances the wildlife will pass by near you when you sleep.

Also, back to the US, I don't think there always a window when you do a hike in Yosemite or Yellowstone neither. Yes everybody take pictures of seagulls or squirels, but that can be more difficult if you are after a bear or just a local deer outside zoos. I'am no expert, but I know that 200mm framing FF is not especially what one would prefer to use if he going in the forest hunting for some wildlife shoots. Hey even 300mm APSC is limiting. For this kind of things, people choose what they can afford to pay and what they accept to lift, not what is the most practical for the practice !
Too keep it simple and short, like I have said before, with a fairly inexpensive adapter, you can have all the reach in the world. AND if you need more, you can always use the adapter on the aps-c cameras as well:


For me and the type of photos I do, 70-200mm is more than enough (especially when switching bodies ff to asp-c). If I will ever need more, I know I have the options.
Anyway... each to its own in the end.

PS - Not trying to promote the brand to anyone! I'm just clarifying the fact that you can have plenty of reach with Sony E mount as well.

Last edited by mrNewt; 09-14-2015 at 09:48 AM.
09-14-2015, 10:26 AM   #247
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QuoteQuote:
PS - Not trying to promote the brand to anyone! I'm just clarifying the fact that you can have plenty of reach with Sony E mount as well.
Understood, but... there are times when I take the A-400 off the camera and crop a 60-250 + TC image, just because I need auto-focus to get it done. No possibility of AF means no image in many circumstances. And it's even more frustrating if you're thinking about how easy a shot would be if you had AF. There's are times that go the other way too, like when branches are in the way, and you can't lock on your subject with AF.... but a lens that has AF and you can just turn it off when you don't want it is way more versatile, and useful.
09-14-2015, 10:43 AM   #248
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Understood, but... there are times when I take the A-400 off the camera and crop a 60-250 + TC image, just because I need auto-focus to get it done. No possibility of AF means no image in many circumstances. And it's even more frustrating if you're thinking about how easy a shot would be if you had AF. There's are times that go the other way too, like when branches are in the way, and you can't lock on your subject with AF.... but a lens that has AF and you can just turn it off when you don't want it is way more versatile, and useful.
Sorry norm, I am not sure where you are going with that. If is AF/MF concerns, the AF/MF switch is possible and MF is even easier to use since you have peaking (and digital zoom to make sure you nail the focus - when need it).
As far as I know the a mount adapter has full AF support and works very well and you can still switch between AF/MF without issues.

09-14-2015, 11:31 AM   #249
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QuoteOriginally posted by mrNewt Quote
Sorry norm, I am not sure where you are going with that. If is AF/MF concerns, the AF/MF switch is possible and MF is even easier to use since you have peaking (and digital zoom to make sure you nail the focus - when need it).
As far as I know the a mount adapter has full AF support and works very well and you can still switch between AF/MF without issues.
First time I've ever heard of using an adapter with AF support. For some reason I was under the impression when you used non-Sony long glass, you lost AF and AE. And that Sony long glass was limited to 200mm.
09-14-2015, 11:38 AM   #250
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
First time I've ever heard of using an adapter with AF support. For some reason I was under the impression when you used non-Sony long glass, you lost AF and AE. And that Sony long glass was limited to 200mm.
Nope... A mount adapter is for the Sony A mount DSLRs lens. It allows you to mount A mount glass on E mount with everything working - AF and MF.
When it comes to A mount... tons and tons of lenses with plenty of reach. If you look at the video I've posted above (is an older video), you will see that you can have even the bigma in A mount mounted on the E mount with AF/MF enabled.

I think the only thing that does not work (I'll stand corrected if I am wrong... and I have a feeling that I am wrong...) is the OSS on the A lens when mounted on E mount with the adapter.
However, if you have an E mount body, newer generation with IBIS, that is not an issues since it will used the IBIS.

But yes, for non-Sony lenses AF is not working... however, there are third party adapters out there for Nikon and Canon with AF (not the best AF though... )

Last edited by mrNewt; 09-14-2015 at 11:56 AM.
09-14-2015, 12:14 PM   #251
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QuoteOriginally posted by mrNewt Quote
Too keep it simple and short, like I have said before, with a fairly inexpensive adapter, you can have all the reach in the world. AND if you need more, you can always use the adapter on the aps-c cameras as well:

For me and the type of photos I do, 70-200mm is more than enough (especially when switching bodies ff to asp-c). If I will ever need more, I know I have the options.
Anyway... each to its own in the end.

PS - Not trying to promote the brand to anyone! I'm just clarifying the fact that you can have plenty of reach with Sony E mount as well.
Oh I don't say you can't. It is just that you need an adapter and to buy a grip too if you want to be comfortable with an heavy lense. For a practice that has very small advantage of FF and that benefit greatly of a bigger camera with more grip, it doesn't look like the best gear for the job.

For most of my usage 200mm FF equivalent is enough. In my case that a 135mm f/2.8 prime so it is also half the size and length than a 70-200 zoom and the hood retract inside the lense when not in use. You can see on that seller listing: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/36-sold-items/162176-sale-sold-smc-pentax...m-f2-8-if.html

Hood retracted:


Hood expended:


If I switch to FF and 200mm prime to get 200mm framming, this is going to be more than double the length


The Sony 70-200 f/4 is almost as big and heavy as a tamron 70-200 f/2.8. The tamron less than half the price, is FF compatible and is f/2.8

Last edited by Nicolas06; 09-14-2015 at 12:27 PM.
09-14-2015, 12:22 PM   #252
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
It is just that you need an adapter and to buy a grip too if you want to be comfortable with an heavy lense. For a practice that has very small advantage of FF and that benefit greatly of a bigger camera with more grip, it doesn't look like the best gear for the job.
You don't need the grip - at least not on the newer generations (I mean people are using lens as big with adapters on the Q and they have no grip as well... and that is a way smaller camera... ). Is not such a big thing if you are using the adapter (I mean look at the Q users... they love adapting all kind of lenses to them)... is nothing wrong with the gear...

I understand if you and a lot of other people don't like it, I'm perfectly fine with that and I don't expect everyone to like it.
However, IT IS possible to use it in any conditions. That was my point...

Oh and... you are preaching me "the reach" and you are still using no more than 70-200mm... LOL. I had a good laugh at that!

QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
The Sony 70-200 f/4 is almost as big and heavy as a tamron 70-200 f/2.8. The tamron less than half the price, is FF compatible and is f/2.8
Not sure what are you trying to say by that, but personally I don't find the 70-200 heavy at all. Is actually considerable lighter than the Sigma 2.8 that I use to have.
I like the lens and I don't expect anyone else to like it. As for the price... no one is forced to buy them. It gives me what I want and need. That is enough for me.

Last edited by mrNewt; 09-14-2015 at 12:32 PM.
09-14-2015, 12:44 PM   #253
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QuoteOriginally posted by mrNewt Quote
You don't need the grip - at least not on the newer generations (I mean people are using lens as big with adapters on the Q and they have no grip as well... and that is a way smaller camera... ). Is not such a big thing if you are using the adapter (I mean look at the Q users... they love adapting all kind of lenses to them)... is nothing wrong with the gear...

I understand if you and a lot of other people don't like it, I'm perfectly fine with that and I don't expect everyone to like it.
However, IT IS possible to use it in any conditions. That was my point...

Oh and... you are preaching me "the reach" and you are still using no more than 70-200mm... LOL. I had a good laugh at that!



Not sure what are you trying to say by that, but personally I don't find the 70-200 heavy at all. Is actually considerable lighter than the Sigma 2.8 that I use to have.
I like the lens and I don't expect anyone else to like it. As for the price... no one is forced to buy them. It gives me what I want and need. That is enough for me.
You know, this kind of reasonning is fine with me... The lense is expensive, f/4 and big... So what. That's true and some lenses are bigger (and f/2.8 too) The camera has no grip? That's true. So what ?

To me then it make sense, some will use the cheaper lighter alternative, some will use the Sony mirrorless FF with adapter or not, some will use a Nikon, some other a m4/3, the first goal is to be satisfied with what you get.

And I still think that most guys in the 300mm+ thread would not prioritize a Sony A7 for their usage of long lenses, but that's maybe just me.

And yes I spoke of reach because if I just take picture with the FA77 on the APSC, to match the bokeh and low light performance and reach on the Sony A7 I need a 135mm FF f/2.8 + adapter that's arround 1500€ instead of 800€ (for a new FA77) and that's 800g instead of 270g. You don't care much of size/weight... I do. If I get less reach with a given sensor, this mean I need longer focal length and that's annoying.

That even more anoying that I'am trying to see what I could get arround 300mm that is higher quality than what I have today and going FF mean 150-450 or equivalent. 2000€+ and 2kg.
09-14-2015, 12:46 PM   #254
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QuoteQuote:
Nope... A mount adapter is for the Sony A mount DSLRs lens. It allows you to mount A mount glass on E mount with everything working - AF and MF.
I thought we were talking conversion to K-mount.

K
QuoteQuote:
EH has the Sony A7R for 1329 right now and I have been debating selling off my K-5, A5000, and one of my Yashica Medium formats to get it. Should I grab the A7R or should I wait a few months for the Pentax FF release and price drop? Personally I don't like adapters but the A7R has some pretty nice video too, and the still quality is amazing. But no IS and adapters is really killing me plus the lack of AF. Which do you think is better or should I just keep using my K-5 and stop trying to find a reason to buy a new camera. Thanks
I wasn't under the impression we were talking about buying a whole new systems with all new glass.

So, your solution to the OPs question is buy a new system with new glass?

Or you were just looking for an opportunity to tell us you like your Sony stuff?
09-14-2015, 12:48 PM   #255
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
You know, this kind of reasonning is fine with me... The lense is expensive, f/4 and big... So what. That's true and some lenses are bigger (and f/2.8 too) The camera has no grip? That's true. So what ?

To me then it make sense, some will use the cheaper lighter alternative, some will use the Sony mirrorless FF with adapter or not, some will use a Nikon, some other a m4/3, the first goal is to be satisfied with what you get.

And I still think that most guys in the 300mm+ thread would not prioritize a Sony A7 for their usage of long lenses, but that's maybe just me.

And yes I spoke of reach because if I just take picture with the FA77 on the APSC, to match the bokeh and low light performance and reach on the Sony A7 I need a 135mm FF f/2.8 + adapter that's arround 1500€ instead of 800€ (for a new FA77) and that's 800g instead of 270g. You don't care much of size/weight... I do. If I get less reach with a given sensor, this mean I need longer focal length and that's annoying.

That even more anoying that I'am trying to see what I could get arround 300mm that is higher quality than what I have today and going FF mean 150-450 or equivalent. 2000€+ and 2kg.
You know what?
You are right... I give up. Enjoy your gear and have fun taking photos! All the best!

---------- Post added 09-14-15 at 03:49 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
I thought we were talking conversion to K-mount.

K

I wasn't under the impression we were talking about buying a whole new systems with all new glass.
If you look at my previous posts, I was making reference to A mount ONLY... never once I mentioned K mount adapters...

Also... all this reach train started when someone said that I can't have the reach with a Sony FE... had nothing to do with the original question from OP (like more than 50% of this thread anyway)...

Last edited by mrNewt; 09-14-2015 at 12:55 PM.
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