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09-01-2015, 11:35 AM   #46
osv
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Because, my goal, like a lot of photogrpahers, is the absolute best image, period. Low light is a separate issue, and if I really want great low light, I'll pay for a 645z , A7s or D4s. Right tool for the job, and all that.
"When it comes to noise at high ISO the Pentax 645Z wins. As for dynamic range, both cameras appear comparable in the shadow areas while the Sony has about a stop more recoverable in the highlight end."
https://luminous-landscape.com/sony-a7rii-review-and-hands-on-report/

that is because sony file latitude is better than what pentax offers, so at iso100, things are not what you think.

afaik, you've never owned or shot a sony ff camera, or even processed a sony ff camera raw file, for that matter.

wrt noise, canon is of course the loser, while the a7rii is very close to the other two:
Studio shot comparison: Digital Photography Review

those results are due in part to what the raw converter does, and different raw converters treat files differently... dpr posts the default actions from only one raw converter, so ymmv.

09-01-2015, 12:00 PM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
right now i'm using the clumsy old adaptall-2 60-300... good pq, but could anything be worse for handling than that



there are a *lot* of people who are using adapters, with good results.

for $1069, there is nothing on the pentax platform that is comparable to the 150-600.

so yeah, you can go right ahead and pass on adapters, and with your pentax you'll also pass on any cost-effective ff big teles as well

this is the sony roadmap: "short term goal: a total of more than 20 fe lenses" http://www.sony.net/Products/di/lenses/roadmap.pdf

this is the sony fe glass that's on the market right now:

Sony FE Primes
Sony FE 28 F2.0
Sony FE 35 F1.4 ZA
Sony FE 35mm F2.8 ZA
Sony FE 55mm F1.8 ZA
Sony FE 90 F2.8 Macro G OSS

Sony FE Zooms
Sony FE 16-35mm f/4 ZA OSS
Sony FE 24-240 F3.5-6.3 OSS
Sony FE 24-70mm F4 ZA OSS
Sony FE 28-70mm F3.5-5.6 OSS
Sony FE 28-135mm F/4 G PZ OSS
Sony FE 70-200mm F4 G OSS
The 20 lenses things has been there for years, still there 11 from your list now.

Not a single long tele, and I think there a reason for that. They simply don't target it. 150-600 from tamron + adapter why not ? Still could do the same with any APSC DLSR with better grip, same magnification and no adapter meaning you really pay $1069, not 1400-1500 with the phase AF adapter.

Sure Pentax doesn't have it but apparently said they support it once the FF is there so...
09-01-2015, 12:16 PM - 1 Like   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
The 20 lenses things has been there for years
wrong, four of those lenses have only been on the market since last spring, indeed the fe90 just hit the streets in july.

QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
Not a single long tele, and I think there a reason for that. They simply don't target it.
they targeted long tele with a-mount, and they will do it with e-mount as well.

QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
Still could do the same with any APSC DLSR with better grip, same magnification and no adapter meaning you really pay $1069, not 1400-1500 with the phase AF adapter.
no crop camera will ever compete with 36mp ff pq, and this is a thread about ff cameras.

sony adapters will work on all a-mount lenses, and there are more ff a-mount lenses on the market than ff k-mount lenses.

so the e-mount ecosystem is much much greater than anything that k-mount will ever achieve.
09-01-2015, 12:59 PM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by MarkJerling Quote
Yes, I'm a tall guy - big hands - no problem with a dslr or film era slr. I don't like the A7R because it has no optical viewfinder and because it's too small! I can't hold it properly.



No problem. My camera bag is already full of FF glass!
I was intimating about future musculo skeletal issues that could ensue from having a heavy camera around one's neck and heavy bag over one's shoulder.
I don't really want to spend 5500 on a rotator cuff repair and be out of action for 6 months!!!

---------- Post added 09-01-15 at 09:11 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
evf vs. ovf is the big question that will remain unanswered, if you wait for still yet another pentax ovf camera.

i shoot the a7r exactly as you outlined above; i have around a dozen cheap adapters, and i've put dozens of lenses on the a7r, no native glass at all... i could have never done any of that with any ovf camera... pick and choose the best glass from any manufacturer, no single company has it all, including canikon.

the a7r, with it's 14.4x evf magnification, is better for mf use than any of the other a7 series cameras, probably even including the a7rii, which is limited to ~12.2x magnification... but of course they all blow away any ovf camera for mf use.

the big problem with cheap wide legacy glass on any companies 36mp ff body is that much of it won't stand up to serious pixel peeping, so regardless of which road you take, i'd suggest looking at what the sony a7 series people have done, and spend the money on proven solutions.

that would include some pentax 28mm primes... then buy a cheap adapter, rent an a7r for the weekend, and judge for yourself.

---------- Post added 08-31-15 at 11:00 PM ----------



the 560mm f5.6 is $5k at b&h, there is no k-mount 150-500mm f/4-5.6 listed at b&h, and i'm not going to bother looking for the rest of the non-existent glass that's on that list.

what IS available for sony right now are the 150-600mm zooms, $1069 at b&h, they af with adapters, or with cameras like the a7rii, sensor-based af... a7rii is but the first step in that evolution, so even if i get one of those zooms for my a7r, it'll be just that much better with the a9, or whatever the next iteration is.

can any ovf camera do that? and where is pentax on eye-tracking?

currently, there are more ff lenses available right now for a-mount, than there is for k-mount, including f/2.8 zooms... we've counted it up in past threads.

in terms of primes, pentax can't match the pq of the fe55/1.8 and the new fe90, and they will never have a motorized parfocal zoom like the 28-135... not even canikon can do that.

there are options with sony.
There are plenty of threads / tests showing that some of the pentax legacy primes more than hold their own on the 36 mp ff sensor.
The 28mm shoot out on the fred miranda site is an excellent read.
I have no issues in taking the m20 f4 (landscapes only), k28 f3.5 and k35 f3.5 in preference to the sony fe 16-35. Lighter around the neck, more fun to use, manual focusing a joy especially for hf distance etc and great to have a manual aperture ring.
The a2 prints are excellent and i prefer the colour rendition of the legacy glass.

09-01-2015, 01:35 PM   #50
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pentax-m 28/3.5 is my favorite lens on the a7r, at f/10 it's clean from corner to corner.
09-01-2015, 02:20 PM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
pentax-m 28/3.5 is my favorite lens on the a7r, at f/10 it's clean from corner to corner.
The k28 f3.5 is my favourite lens, period!!
I agree totally with silver-surfer. The legacy glass also looks great on the a7r, particularly the m20 f4 and m50 f1.7 because they are so small.

Maybe one needs to have silver hair or be totally bald, as in my case, to be of an age to appreciate the nostalgia and emulation of the old k and m series film slr systems that the a7r provides.
09-01-2015, 04:24 PM   #52
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QuoteQuote:
sony adapters will work on all a-mount lenses, and there are more ff a-mount lenses on the market than ff k-mount lenses.

so the e-mount ecosystem is much much greater than anything that k-mount will ever achieve.
There no such thing as Sony vs Pentax.

You think you need to justify your buy, that the best one ever possible for you and for everybody. You have to have made the best choice. You need to convince yourself and show other your sharp mind. But others don't care.

Hey if you choose a random brand and invest into the system, the most visible difference may be the forum you'll subscribe too and the money you'll spend on gear. But really theses day any camera can take great pictures and the differentiator is that some prefer MF, some prefer OVF, some prefer a rangefinder... Some love to develop their own film rolls. Some play with project lenses. Some use lense baby. Doesn't matter in the end. If you are not a pro, there no even any requirement to produce anything usefull

Sure there sharpness there, MF ultimate performance for this model or whatever blabla you want to put into it. Let's not forget the all mighty EVF. But there no Camera that make the sun shine and the sky blue when you shoot on an overcast day. They no camera that'll shoot a portrait of your mother showing her joy of living and be sure you keep it so you have some memories when she dies. No Camera will bring you safe to a war zone to take some shoot to report back how it is there.

For things that count, it is not the camera that matter.

So yeah you can continue to use Pentax lenses on Sony body and pretend that the best thing since sliced bread and that if one doesn't do the same as you do yourself, he is stupid... In the end it not like it will change other people mind, or it will change in any way its ability to take great picture in any way.
09-01-2015, 06:32 PM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by ACG Quote
I was intimating about future musculo skeletal issues that could ensue from having a heavy camera around one's neck and heavy bag over one's shoulder.
Easily cured with red wine!

09-01-2015, 07:21 PM - 1 Like   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by MarkJerling Quote
Easily cured with red wine!
Then you have to lug around an enlarged liver.
09-01-2015, 07:28 PM   #55
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I was just wanting to know opinions and info. Thats it. I thought it was good deal on KEH and I knew that I am starting to gain more momentum as a photographer and thought it was a good route. And considering that I have used around 7 pentax bodies so far and use only pentax k mount glass and just about always use my M50mm 1.7 I am pretty certain I am full on Pentax. Especially because I love to screw with my Canikon friends who think that if you dont have a T5i or 70D or D3300 or D5300 your camera is useless when I can pull of an image they would struggle with. To me Pentax and Sony are like the underdog companies that are innovating and moving forward in the camera realm. Pentax offering high end options in amateur and beginner DSLR's and Sony is breaking wall after wall in FF and video DSLR usage. To me I find them to be the companies to watch as Canikon keeps building lower quality items and prices them higher. Rant over. Clackers, Be nice.
09-01-2015, 11:23 PM   #56
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IMO, nothing is as straightforward as it seems to using an A mount to FE, AF adapter.
1. The adapter with the slt, it looses 1/3 stop of light. May not seem much at low ISO, but it adds up real fast part 1600. As a rather generic shooter doing various genres, not very appealing.
2. The 'really' good A7 series camera to use a non SLT adapter, with good hybrid AF is the just released A7rii. The rest either don't have hybrid AF, or not that good with it.
3. Using the non-slt adapter limits one to lenses with built in AF motor
4. If there is a sinking ship wrt lenses/mount system, the A mount would be it. I am apprehensive about buying A-mount lenses at current prices and be under Sony's mercy as to how long they will support this mount (via the adapter)
If these lenses are like orphan mount cheap, I don't mind, but current prices, I don't dare getting to into them.
In fact, I know a lot of the local forum guys go hush hush about this fear or going obsolete and try to not talk about it, while trying to clear off their expensive G and CZ Amount lenses


I would have picked up an adapter and a couple of A mount primes if not for all these considerations.


So the reasonings over this system or that is never that clear to me.
Certainly a system that takes lenses natively has its merits.


Let's see what the Pentax FF will come with.

Last edited by pinholecam; 09-01-2015 at 11:37 PM.
09-02-2015, 12:13 AM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by Not a Number Quote
DigitalRev points out that if Sony follows their previous trends with the A7 that yet another new and improved model will be released in late fall.
Perhaps an A7s II?
09-02-2015, 04:23 AM   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
Originally posted by biz-engineer Quote The dilemma with Pentax is the weakness/lack of availability in the tele and supertele lenses, which make no sense of a bigger, heavier, costly Pentax FF body. It's strange that you are touting Sony over Pentax for lens selection. The only native telephoto lens for Sony FE is a 70-200mm f4. Pentax has a 70-200 f2.8, 150-500mm f-4-5.6, 300mm f4 and 560mm f5.6, plus numerous third-party choices. There is not a single f2.8 zoom available for FE. My K-3 and 17-50 Sigma performance can match either standard zoom that Sony offers, at lower cost and not much difference in size.
Is Sony mentionned in the sentence that you quoted? I did not compare Pentax and Sony regarding lens selection. My point was that if a photographer does wildlife, he is better served with a Nikon or Canon DSLR+supertele combo. If a photographer favorite style of photography is landscape + portrait, then a mirrorless such as Sony is a better way to go. Pentax limited lens concept was appealing when mirrorless was not deployed, but now, for size, Sony A7 beats Pentax limited combos for size and IQ. And for supertele, Nikon and Canon beat Pentax offering. So at the moment, Pentax is kind of stuck in the middle: DSLR sized body, with relatively slow AF for tracking and not so competitive supertele lens selection options.
09-02-2015, 06:02 AM   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Is Sony mentionned in the sentence that you quoted? I did not compare Pentax and Sony regarding lens selection. My point was that if a photographer does wildlife, he is better served with a Nikon or Canon DSLR+supertele combo. If a photographer favorite style of photography is landscape + portrait, then a mirrorless such as Sony is a better way to go. Pentax limited lens concept was appealing when mirrorless was not deployed, but now, for size, Sony A7 beats Pentax limited combos for size and IQ. And for supertele, Nikon and Canon beat Pentax offering. So at the moment, Pentax is kind of stuck in the middle: DSLR sized body, with relatively slow AF for tracking and not so competitive supertele lens selection options.
And for someone who wants to do both in the same breath, they use a Pentax


A Pentax can be that all rounder (and master of of none).
09-02-2015, 06:12 AM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
It's strange that you are touting Sony over Pentax for lens selection. The only native telephoto lens for Sony FE is a 70-200mm f4. Pentax has a 70-200 f2.8, 150-500mm f-4-5.6, 300mm f4 and 560mm f5.6, plus numerous third-party choices. There is not a single f2.8 zoom available for FE. My K-3 and 17-50 Sigma performance can match either standard zoom that Sony offers, at lower cost and not much difference in size.
Exactly, that's why dropped my Sony gear, their f4 zooms are just as big as any other ff 2.8 so what's the point, it kinda negates the size advantage, even more so if adapting lenses, while nice ability but then you're right back to same size as say a Nikon D750 with any comparable fast glass. I love Pentax ergonomics and feature set(green button is a fantastic shortcut for in-studio shooting) , I just hope with the launch of a FF that they also finally launch a few other weather sealed primes ie an 85 1.4 and 35 1.4??? Here's to wishful thinking
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