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09-18-2015, 06:57 AM   #61
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Ricoh is likely out of compliance with California law. See this: Is There a Law Requiring Appliance Parts Availability

The requirement is seven years from the manufacture date (for electronics) and has nothing to do with warranty periods.

I don't know that it is relevant until someone in California pushes the issue.

Read the detail it is not limited to appliances.

09-18-2015, 07:53 AM - 1 Like   #62
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I wonder if there are shops that will fix your 7 year old appliance. All the appliance repair shops around here have gone out of business.

The only flaw in the way this story happened is the lack of information. The repair isn't going to happen because it won't be worth it. Knowing that on the first contact would be nice.

I've repeated this and will repeat again. Anything under $2000 is probably not worth fixing. There are retired guys working out of their basements, and more power to them.

They are too complex to repair, the level of competence required to do the repairs is too expensive.

This isn't Ricoh or Pentax. A friend uses a Nikon 2x extender, a very nice piece of glass, retails around $600 cad. The aperture lever was sticking. He sent it in and two months later after a bunch of calls and emails found out that there were no parts. He wasted two months of his life, and an enormous amount of time and energy banging his head on a wall.

Get used to it. Throw it away. Collectively we have decided we don't want to pay the cost of maintaining a service organization, so they don't exist.
09-18-2015, 09:35 AM   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by Not a Number Quote
So what relevance does it have at all with "Pentax DSLR Discussion"?
Nothing except that a customer service discussion ended up in the Pentax dSLR section. Perhaps these threads should be relocated to the photo industry section or perhaps there should be a section for complaint reports and rants. I understand the utility and even necessity of being able to report service issues, but the original post had nothing to do with Pentax dSLRs.


Steve
09-18-2015, 09:52 AM   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
Ricoh is likely out of compliance with California law. See this: Is There a Law Requiring Appliance Parts Availability

The requirement is seven years from the manufacture date (for electronics) and has nothing to do with warranty periods.

I don't know that it is relevant until someone in California pushes the issue.

Read the detail it is not limited to appliances.
Good point. I remember something about car parts being required to be available for up to 10 years after a model was discontinued. I am sure there are laws. The last thing we need though is someone suing Pentax and draining further the little resources they have to do business in the US.

09-18-2015, 10:08 AM   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by derekkite Quote
I wonder if there are shops that will fix your 7 year old appliance. All the appliance repair shops around here have gone out of business.

The only flaw in the way this story happened is the lack of information. The repair isn't going to happen because it won't be worth it. Knowing that on the first contact would be nice.

I've repeated this and will repeat again. Anything under $2000 is probably not worth fixing. There are retired guys working out of their basements, and more power to them.

They are too complex to repair, the level of competence required to do the repairs is too expensive.

This isn't Ricoh or Pentax. A friend uses a Nikon 2x extender, a very nice piece of glass, retails around $600 cad. The aperture lever was sticking. He sent it in and two months later after a bunch of calls and emails found out that there were no parts. He wasted two months of his life, and an enormous amount of time and energy banging his head on a wall.

Get used to it. Throw it away. Collectively we have decided we don't want to pay the cost of maintaining a service organization, so they don't exist.
In a word. No. I will not get used to it. I will vote with money and complaints and social media and words and I will make it clear when customer service is lacking and when it is not. It isn't just about the repair or non-repair, it is about caring and trying to make the customer well informed and also providing a product designed for service.

Not being able to repair a 16-45 lens that is no longer sold - that's acceptable. Not being able to repair a lens that is still sold - completely absolutely unacceptable. There is no way that you can justify this. Keep talking until you are blue in the face - it won't fly. There are real costs to repair - and yes some things cannot be repaired but you are nuts if you think that 2k is a rational cutoff point for the repair threshold. Sorry but we do not see eye to eye we are in fact not even in the same world.
09-18-2015, 10:34 AM   #66
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Nothing except that a customer service discussion ended up in the Pentax dSLR section. Perhaps these threads should be relocated to the photo industry section or perhaps there should be a section for complaint reports and rants. I understand the utility and even necessity of being able to report service issues, but the original post had nothing to do with Pentax dSLRs.


Steve
Fair enough. My apologies for posting my original comment in the wrong section of the forums.

---------- Post added 09-18-15 at 11:35 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by ofer4 Quote
Ricoh (UK, at least: DA 12-24mm F4) is still selling the 12-24. Parts availability isn't the issue. Ricoh's unwillingness to cannibalize a new lens for parts or give you a new one is the issue. A reasonable compromise would be for them to charge you the equivalent of the repair and give you a new lens.
I would be fine with paying them the equivalent of the cost of the repair for a replacement lens. seems a reasonable compromise to me.
09-18-2015, 10:50 AM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by derekkite Quote
Anything under $2000 is probably not worth fixing.
Completely depends on your mindset. I've been able to save numerous expensive electronics items for myself and family over the years by replacing a few capacitors. Pretty simple really, and saved a lot of money. And when my 8-yoa washer stopped working, I was able to replace a $40 valve and two years later it's still going strong. Saved close to $1000 right there versus replacing it with a similar model.

I suppose if you are not a DIY person, and your budget is such that you don't mind spending several hundred here and a couple thousand there for the sake of convenience, then your philosophy makes sense. I have a brother-in-law who certainly sees things your way, but he'st he kind of guy that can barely hang a picture on a wall.



QuoteOriginally posted by derekkite Quote
This isn't Ricoh or Pentax. A friend uses a Nikon 2x extender, a very nice piece of glass, retails around $600 cad. The aperture lever was sticking. He sent it in and two months later after a bunch of calls and emails found out that there were no parts. He wasted two months of his life, and an enormous amount of time and energy banging his head on a wall.

Get used to it. Throw it away. Collectively we have decided we don't want to pay the cost of maintaining a service organization, so they don't exist.
Maybe that's true of Pentax and Nikon, and if so, then that's another big reason to go 3rd party. Tamron gives their lenses something like a 7-year warranty in the US, and Sigma gives 3 or 4 years and has an awesome service department. They even did major repairs on one of my discontinued lenses (100-300mm f4) quickly and at a reasonable price.
09-18-2015, 12:10 PM   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazelle01 Quote
I would be fine with paying them the equivalent of the cost of the repair for a replacement lens. seems a reasonable compromise to me.
In which case you can order one from your dealer of choice. A repair of the magnitude suggested by your description would be well over might be close to the current retail price. Edit: I guess it would be good to elaborate a little. Even if the part were available, I would expect that bench time would be 3-4 hours at best. At ~$100/hr + parts the cost is into the $500+ range.


Steve


Last edited by stevebrot; 09-18-2015 at 12:18 PM.
09-18-2015, 12:12 PM   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazelle01 Quote
Fair enough. My apologies for posting my original comment in the wrong section of the forums.
That is not a huge thing. Perfectly acceptable posts end up in the wrong place every day. Usually the mods catch it and find them a good home.


Steve
09-18-2015, 12:19 PM   #70
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
In which case you can order one from your dealer of choice. A repair of the magnitude suggested by your description would be well over might be close to the current retail price. Edit: I guess it would be good to elaborate a little. Even if the part were available, I would expect that bench time would be 3-4 hours at best. At ~$100/hr + parts the cost is into the $500+ range.


Steve
However - since Precision has gone to a flat rate repair cost model they likely make this up on lenses with minor repairs that take far less time. I would not anticipate they would lose money even then if they averaged out their repairs.
09-18-2015, 01:13 PM   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
However - since Precision has gone to a flat rate repair cost model they likely make this up on lenses with minor repairs that take far less time. I would not anticipate they would lose money even then if they averaged out their repairs.
Agree. Sometimes the cost to precisely estimate the repair and communicate that to customer, and then to wait to get the customers OK back, far exceeds a process like you are describing. Flat rate is advantageous to the repair company because they can open up lens and proceed to repair, get it done, and go on to the next lens without having half-finished lens repairs lying around the work place.

One of the metal gear teeth head of my Manfrotto tripod broke. There's an office on the east coast that can order parts for that brand, along with a few other brands they represent. You go to a web page which shows you the exploded view of the tripod parts, and then you order the part needed. I think i completed the transaction on a phone call. Then a week or two weeks later i got the small package. Cost was about $6.00 and saved a $300 plus tripod from the scrap heap. Cost was cheap because the repair labor was all mine :-)
09-18-2015, 02:12 PM   #72
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
Gray market is sometimes as cheap as used. No more risk really.
Actually I think it might be safer to go gray market.. with the potential for people dumping their flawed/damaged copies on the market and not listing them as such..
09-18-2015, 02:35 PM   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
However - since Precision has gone to a flat rate repair cost model they likely make this up on lenses with minor repairs that take far less time.
I was unaware they had changed business models. I asked them about the price quote when I was dealing with them last winter and they told me it was a base estimate.

Steve
09-18-2015, 02:37 PM   #74
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
One of the metal gear teeth head of my Manfrotto tripod broke. There's an office on the east coast that can order parts for that brand, along with a few other brands they represent. You go to a web page which shows you the exploded view of the tripod parts, and then you order the part needed. I think i completed the transaction on a phone call. Then a week or two weeks later i got the small package. Cost was about $6.00 and saved a $300 plus tripod from the scrap heap. Cost was cheap because the repair labor was all mine :-)
To balance your Manfrotto experience (and vent a bit of my own steam) I had the opposite experience with them. One of the plastic leg locks on my tripod broke (err... *I* broke it) and I went through the same procedure. Alas, despite the identical part being used on a wide range of models Manfrotto is no longer able to supply the part I need (or rather their Canadian parts distributor can't get a hold of it). Granted, my tripod was a lower end one from a few years back, but still, it's annoying and frankly when or if I get around to buying a new tripod (I am watching for 'parts' tripods) there's a good chance it won't be a manfrotto as a result of this annoyance. There's enough choices in manufacturers out there that the little things are often enough to send customers packing.
09-18-2015, 03:10 PM   #75
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
I was unaware they had changed business models. I asked them about the price quote when I was dealing with them last winter and they told me it was a base estimate.

Steve
They recently (months ago) put up a page that gives a number that I thought was a fixed price. Maybe I'm confused.
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