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09-18-2015, 03:14 PM   #76
mee
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
They recently (months ago) put up a page that gives a number that I thought was a fixed price. Maybe I'm confused.
We're all confused.. because Precision is confusing since they don't communicate well.

See I too thought it was an average of the common 'worst' case scenarios estimate.. but then I also wondered if maybe they were flat rate... I just don't know. So I asked them..

But Precision DO NOT respond to email so I was never able to confirm.. I literally sent half a dozen messages their way at least.. I finally got Ricoh themselves to respond after a couple of messages only for them to say ask Precision.

Then I posted a thread on here asking others.. and no one responded out of warranty... crickets..


Last edited by mee; 09-18-2015 at 03:37 PM.
09-18-2015, 04:01 PM   #77
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This thread represents consumer goods as a whole. Looping voicemail and autoreply email are all industry standard these days. And then if you actually get someone live, theyre likely underpaid and overworked to actually care about the issue. Its too bad. We raced to the bottom and lost quality, pay, and livelyhood.
09-18-2015, 06:19 PM   #78
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Replacing the camera costs Pentax ZERO dollars.i purchased the 2 year extended warranty,then multiply that $20 by the number of people who also purchased the extended warranty and never used it and that covers the cost of the ones that did need it.It's basically insurance.After 5 months and 2 attempts at repair Ricoh/pentax should have just said we will be shipping another camera right away.Who wants to do business with a company that has to be threatened just to get them to honor the warranty.I'll make a wager with anyone here that Precision camera tries to bill me for the warranty repair just like they did the last two times it was there.They say oh,well you didn't include a copy of the receipt but each time it was wrapped around the camera as requested.Might as well try to double dip,eh!! Crooks!!!
09-18-2015, 07:02 PM - 1 Like   #79
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QuoteOriginally posted by bschriver11 Quote
After 5 months and 2 attempts at repair Ricoh/pentax should have just said we will be shipping another camera right away.Who wants to do business with a company that has to be threatened just to get them to honor the warranty.
My sympathies are definitely with you and I agree that they should have just sent you a camera, but you might want to read your warranty terms before you accuse Ricoh of not honoring them. Sorry to be snarky, but as with most warranties, the option to repair vs. replace lies with the warrantor. As for the actuarial aspects of the $20, 2-year extension (which also includes a free checkup/cleaning BTW), perhaps you should compare costs with Mac or FairTrade (both being de facto insurance).


Steve

(..."ZERO"..."Crooks"...gimme a break...)

09-18-2015, 09:31 PM   #80
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Has been and always will be .... "Good. Fast. Cheap: Pick Any Two"

Last year my FA31mm was with C.R.I.S. from the very beginning of March until a couple days before September. Good news? It wasn't too expensive and it worked flawlessly from Sept to present.

That being said, between, I'd say, mid-May and late June I too was pretty "disgusted" if I remember right (and I do - there is a LONNNNNNNG email history I could share that runs the gamut of emotions).... but eventually I kinda gave up and forgot (tried to) that I even *owned* a 31mm. In late August I experienced and early Christmas!
09-19-2015, 05:19 AM   #81
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
My sympathies are definitely with you and I agree that they should have just sent you a camera, but you might want to read your warranty terms before you accuse Ricoh of not honoring them. Sorry to be snarky,......."ZERO"..."Crooks"...gimme a break...)
I think the thing that a lot of the Pentax defenders on here are ignoring is the amount of time it is taking Pentax and/or their authorized service provider to perform whatever work they eventually perform. The person you are responding to was without his camera for FIVE months. The average person would probably call that unacceptable.

And you can't just call it the industry norm, as Canon and Sigma at least both seem to be very responsive with their service departments.

And then you scoffed at him for using the word "crooks". The theft statute for my state reads:

"A person who knowingly or intentionally exerts unauthorized control over property of another person, with intent to deprive the other person of any part of its value or use, commits theft, a Class D felony."

Obviously this is a business transaction, and is not a criminal case, but beyond that distinction it's kind of hard to tell the difference when you are deprived of your property by another party for five months, either because of their incompetence or their indifference.
09-19-2015, 06:43 AM   #82
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QuoteOriginally posted by derekkite Quote
Get used to it. Throw it away. Collectively we have decided we don't want to pay the cost of maintaining a service organization, so they don't exist.
Example:

Let's suppose Denver decides to build a competent repair facility staffed by trained technicians. The overriding Service Level Agreement between Ricoh USA management and Ricoh Service Center Management is "Ten day turnaround on all repairs in warranty. Else replace with new."

Communication Service Level Agreement is "Same day response on email received before 3pm Mountain. Inbound phone calls during business hours answered by employees."

Out of warranty work is to be diagnosed, priced, negotiated and performed, or returned to customer Post-Paid if repair is refused. (See Eric Hendrickson in the Film Camera Forums).

BUT.

The Service Center MUST BE financially self-supporting. Therefore, every single camera and lens sold through Ricoh Imaging Americas Corp must be marked up an additional $50 at the wholesale level (which is $100 retail) and the funds allocated to Good Warranty Service.

Given that, according to Consumer Reports, 92% of Pentax Cameras tested are fault-free for the duration of the Warranty period, each of us would prospectively pay $100 at retail to make the 8% statistical losers happy.

The howls of price gouging would be deafening.

Last edited by monochrome; 09-19-2015 at 06:49 AM.
09-19-2015, 07:42 AM   #83
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
btw you've posted 10 times in less than an hour to this thread.. this must be a hot button topic for you!

You must be very interested as well, to take the time to count a member's posts!

09-19-2015, 08:22 AM   #84
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Example:

Let's suppose Denver decides to build a competent repair facility staffed by trained technicians. The overriding Service Level Agreement between Ricoh USA management and Ricoh Service Center Management is "Ten day turnaround on all repairs in warranty. Else replace with new."

Communication Service Level Agreement is "Same day response on email received before 3pm Mountain. Inbound phone calls during business hours answered by employees."

Out of warranty work is to be diagnosed, priced, negotiated and performed, or returned to customer Post-Paid if repair is refused. (See Eric Hendrickson in the Film Camera Forums).

BUT.

The Service Center MUST BE financially self-supporting. Therefore, every single camera and lens sold through Ricoh Imaging Americas Corp must be marked up an additional $50 at the wholesale level (which is $100 retail) and the funds allocated to Good Warranty Service.

Given that, according to Consumer Reports, 92% of Pentax Cameras tested are fault-free for the duration of the Warranty period, each of us would prospectively pay $100 at retail to make the 8% statistical losers happy.

The howls of price gouging would be deafening.
That's great, but when you consider that Sigma is able to provide great and fast service, AND undercut OEM's on pricing, it makes you wonder...
09-19-2015, 08:45 AM   #85
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QuoteOriginally posted by Edgar_in_Indy Quote
That's great, but when you consider that Sigma is able to provide great and fast service, AND undercut OEM's on pricing, it makes you wonder...
Sigma (I believe) is a family business. Executive salaries can be identical to shareholder-owned companies - if the executives are also the owners, and if Sigma also breaks even, there are no corporate overloads to answer to. The owner profit is all in the salaries.

Sigma can use the high volume, high infrastructure, lower-margin business model. Their basic lens designs are available in 5 major mounts (often including Pentax). They can piggyback on the branded manufacturer brand identity marketing at no cost to them.

Pentax cannot do that. Nikon and Canon can't even do that.

Pentax certainly can not at their miniscule North American sales volume.

We need to separate the Pentax product issues from the North America distributor issues. Ricoh could make the best cameras and lenses on Earth, but if Ricoh Imaging NA continues to market the current Dealer Agreements, Pricing Schedule, Dealer Rep / Broker coverage and (lack of) inventory stocking we're never going to have local availability nor good support here.

All that costs money. Ricoh Japan doesn't seem to want to invest the money in Ricoh, NA, and/or Pentax customers don't seem to want to pay for what they demand.

Last edited by monochrome; 09-19-2015 at 08:51 AM.
09-19-2015, 09:53 AM   #86
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QuoteOriginally posted by promacjoe Quote
Today, all manufactures use CNC machines. This means that only molded plastic, and sheet metal parts, cannot be immediately made. Any part that can be made on the CNC machine, can be made almost immediately with very little effort. Unless that rail was made out of a stamped metal or molded plastic, they should have been able to make it in that time frame. and even if it was molded plastic, these days the 3-D printer can make it, It just takes longer.

In fact, there was at least 1 manufacturer that will provide a part for any item they made regardless of how old it was. Honda motorcycle used to advertise that it would make any part for any motorcycle that it ever made, But I have never actually tested it.
If you knew anything about CNC machining then you would know your statements are in no way accurate. Many non manufacturing knowledgable people seem to think that all you need is a picture and a computer button that you click on and the part just jumps off the machine seconds later.

Nowadays it is easier to make large quantities of parts using CNC equipment but in actuality it would probably take less time for a journeyman tool and die maker to make one part using standard machine tools.

CNC machines allow you to machine a part that was programmed using CAM software from an accurately created 3D model.

I can go on for much longer but it's almost pointless to try to explain this to an uneducated person.
09-19-2015, 10:08 AM   #87
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QuoteOriginally posted by BlakeShellman Quote
from an accurately created 3D model.
There's the rub.
09-19-2015, 10:45 AM   #88
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QuoteOriginally posted by csa Quote
You must be very interested as well, to take the time to count a member's posts!
When the majority of the posts of a single page on the thread say 'stevebrot' (some back to back to back) it is obvious to see!

I think, to respond to your passive aggressive statement, ALL of us in this thread are very interested in proper support.
09-19-2015, 10:54 AM   #89
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QuoteOriginally posted by Edgar_in_Indy Quote
with intent to deprive the other person of any part of its value or use, commits theft, a Class D felony."

Obviously this is a business transaction, and is not a criminal case, but beyond that distinction it's kind of hard to tell the difference when you are deprived of your property by another party for five months, either because of their incompetence or their indifference.
You have to show "intent to deprive".
09-19-2015, 10:55 AM   #90
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
When the majority of the posts of a single page on the thread say 'stevebrot' (some back to back to back) it is obvious to see!

I think, to respond to your passive aggressive statement, ALL of us in this thread are very interested in proper support.
My statement was not in any way meant to be "aggressive"; rather just an observation.

Of course we are all interested in this topic, or we wouldn't be reading the thread.
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