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10-20-2015, 07:45 AM   #16
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Thanks to all the good recommendations here I was able to capture many shots decently exposed the first time.


In the church I used mostly the DA*16-50mm between f/5.6-2.8. Using exposure compensation and moving it 2/3~4/3 of a stop lightly produced mostly well exposed photos.


Using Av in the church was tough as the suggested shutter time was 1/10"-1/4". This was difficult to keep steady while sweating in a suit and even worse due to the movement of the bride & groom. I switched to TAv and tried keeling the shutter at 1/100" to freeze movement. Moving down to 1/60", propping the camera on the top of the pew, waiting for times the newlyweds were still, and using f2/8, my K30 would still go up to ISO 12800. The photos are nice but quite grainy.


In a situation like this is there anything I can do (short of bringing a mono/tripod to the church) to tamp down the ISO?


Asking for purely speculation here :-) would a full frame camera with a f/2.8 zoom have made a substantial impact on the ISO level needed?

10-20-2015, 08:22 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by Newtophotos Quote


Asking for purely speculation here :-) would a full frame camera with a f/2.8 zoom have made a substantial impact on the ISO level needed?
Don't think so... assuming you have the same technique and lens, you still end up using ISO 12800.... full frame or not is not going to help.
Several things you could try, use a flash whenever you could, try to use a faster prime lens and try to underexpose a bit (ETTL) and try to shoot from angles to maximize the light.
10-20-2015, 08:45 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Newtophotos Quote
Thanks to all the good recommendations here I was able to capture many shots decently exposed the first time.


In the church I used mostly the DA*16-50mm between f/5.6-2.8. Using exposure compensation and moving it 2/3~4/3 of a stop lightly produced mostly well exposed photos.


Using Av in the church was tough as the suggested shutter time was 1/10"-1/4". This was difficult to keep steady while sweating in a suit and even worse due to the movement of the bride & groom. I switched to TAv and tried keeling the shutter at 1/100" to freeze movement. Moving down to 1/60", propping the camera on the top of the pew, waiting for times the newlyweds were still, and using f2/8, my K30 would still go up to ISO 12800. The photos are nice but quite grainy.


In a situation like this is there anything I can do (short of bringing a mono/tripod to the church) to tamp down the ISO?


Asking for purely speculation here :-) would a full frame camera with a f/2.8 zoom have made a substantial impact on the ISO level needed?
It sounds like you were having the same problem i have been fighting for months, trying to take pictures of my grand daughter indoors not using a flash
10-20-2015, 12:26 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by Newtophotos Quote
In a situation like this is there anything I can do (short of bringing a mono/tripod to the church) to tamp down the ISO?

Asking for purely speculation here :-) would a full frame camera with a f/2.8 zoom have made a substantial impact on the ISO level needed?
You can use an even faster lens, eg. your 55/1.4, to gain lower ISO. At the expense of narrower DOF.

A full frame camera would need the same exposures but it would yield a cleaner result because of the larger sensor area. And a narrower DOF at the same exposures.

I hope I'm not setting off yet another equivalence discussion here.

Regards,
--Anders.

10-20-2015, 04:00 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by Newtophotos Quote
Thanks to all the good recommendations here I was able to capture many shots decently exposed the first time.


In the church I used mostly the DA*16-50mm between f/5.6-2.8. Using exposure compensation and moving it 2/3~4/3 of a stop lightly produced mostly well exposed photos.


Using Av in the church was tough as the suggested shutter time was 1/10"-1/4". This was difficult to keep steady while sweating in a suit and even worse due to the movement of the bride & groom. I switched to TAv and tried keeling the shutter at 1/100" to freeze movement. Moving down to 1/60", propping the camera on the top of the pew, waiting for times the newlyweds were still, and using f2/8, my K30 would still go up to ISO 12800. The photos are nice but quite grainy.


In a situation like this is there anything I can do (short of bringing a mono/tripod to the church) to tamp down the ISO?


Asking for purely speculation here :-) would a full frame camera with a f/2.8 zoom have made a substantial impact on the ISO level needed?

The metering will still be 1-10"-1/4", and unfortunately, on FF you will need to *reduce* the aperture to keep the bride and groom both in focus, or to get the second row of guests all sharp, etc.


To offset that, the shadows should clean up better. The D810 as an example doesn't have pixels any bigger than the K5 II, but there are more of them for the noise reduction software to use.


A monopod's a pretty good idea, and flash where appropriate (the reception, say).
10-21-2015, 07:20 AM - 1 Like   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
The metering will still be 1-10"-1/4", and unfortunately, on FF you will need to *reduce* the aperture to keep the bride and groom both in focus, or to get the second row of guests all sharp, etc.


To offset that, the shadows should clean up better. The D810 as an example doesn't have pixels any bigger than the K5 II, but there are more of them for the noise reduction software to use.

Thanks clackers. If I understand you correctly, if the exposure settings are the same between my K-30 and FF, then the depth of field will be less with shallower with the FF? I've heard this before but never understood why.


Also, what do you mean by "shadows should clean up better"?


As long as a camera has larger pixels than my 16.3MP K-30 (so < 39.4 pixels on a FF) I assume the higher ISO performance will be better. Will any other specification of the camera body (no AA filter, 14bit Raw, etc.) contribute significantly to better high ISO performance?

---------- Post added 10-21-15 at 07:23 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by kjphilippona Quote
It sounds like you were having the same problem i have been fighting for months, trying to take pictures of my grand daughter indoors not using a flash

Exact same issue kjphilippona, although your grand daughter might move even faster than nervous folks at a wedding!
10-21-2015, 01:01 PM   #22
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I usually work in P mode. Auto ISo set not to exceed 800. exposure compensation +1 Meter center weighted. This tends to get me the shot and compensates for the white dress in most of the pictures.
10-21-2015, 10:48 PM - 1 Like   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by Newtophotos Quote
Thanks clackers. If I understand you correctly, if the exposure settings are the same between my K-30 and FF, then the depth of field will be less with shallower with the FF? I've heard this before but never understood why.
To a first approximation, the depth of field of FF compared to APS-C is essentially the same, Newtophotos.

But:

1. Because the field of view of the two formats is different, you'll move back from the subject or towards the subject to get the framing you want, and that will change the depth of field

2. What's in focus is sharp in both cases, but individual points in the out of focus areas that are fuzzy in the K-30 image will be twice as fuzzy in the FF one.


QuoteOriginally posted by Newtophotos Quote
Also, what do you mean by "shadows should clean up better"?
When the pixels are bigger (not the sensor), the signal to noise ratio is higher in the resulting image, so that in software you can better brighten its dark bits and recover the details and colours.

Not so important in good conditions - your phone can take great pictures in great light.


QuoteOriginally posted by Newtophotos Quote
As long as a camera has larger pixels than my 16.3MP K-30 (so < 39.4 pixels on a FF) I assume the higher ISO performance will be better. Will any other specification of the camera body (no AA filter, 14bit Raw, etc.) contribute significantly to better high ISO performance?
The sheer number of pixels will make a difference.

Your software (or the camera's own JPEG engine) will take the RAW file and convert it into a JPEG, and along the way will compress it, averaging out values as it removes pixels to make the file smaller. This gets rid of noise,

Say three out of every four pixels are being deleted. It encounters an area where three are yellow, one is blue. The algorithm might guess it should just leave one yellow in place, and get rid of the rest.

The more pixels for the algorithms to work with, the better the guesses are.

The K-3 does okay compared to the K-30 in low light even with smaller pixels partly because it's got eight million more of them.





Last edited by clackers; 10-22-2015 at 03:57 AM.
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