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06-24-2008, 04:28 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by mattdm Quote
"Pro" is a weird fascination with photography enthusiasts. A select few pros get to do cool artistic stuff like Ben. A few more get to do other interesting largely discretionary work and make money at it. The rest are, y'know, taking pictures of kids on Santa's lap.

Now, please don't be insulted — nothing wrong with that as a vocation, but the requirements for that are way different than those for someone who enjoys taking photographs and wants a high-quality advanced-feature camera body. I imagine that if I were a pro photographer, I'd want something different for work and for pleasure.

For comparison: the standard "pro" computer is a low-powered beige desktop model with onboard graphics and sound, and a 17" low-res LCD. What's so exciting about "pro" equipment?

For me, "advanced amateur" is a much better label than the "prosumer" market term.
The meaning of the word "pro" has morphed over the past couple of decades, and now means something far different from what it used to. When I started out in photography 40 years ago, a "pro" camera had very few features (although most camera fit that description at the time), but had 100% accurate viewfinders, shutters that would give several hundred thousand actuations before wearing out, and a build quality that would allow you to hammer nails with the baseplate, were you so inclined.
I'm not sure what the word means now. For some, if the camera is used by a single, solitary professional photographer in the whole world, that's good enough to make it "pro", or if it has lots of gimmicky features, it is "pro".
What no one seems to consider anymore is things like the quality of the viewfinder (Pentax is very good here), or the ruggedness of the camera (other that being splash resistant, Pentax bodies are not good in this regard, or the number of shutter actuations the machine will give prior to the shutter cacking.
One of the boys at the studio just had his D70 shutter die on him at less than 30K shutter actuations.
To me, this is not "pro", this is jut another crappy junior built camera body with lots of cool buttons and beepers to make you think you have something.
This was a camera that was Pro utilized, in that it shot several thousand Santa photos, along with dozens of weddings, school photos and grad and family portraits during it's lifetime, and was perfectly acceptable in that job. Unfortunately, it's build quality wasn't robust enough, and now its plastic slag, not a camera.
Unfortunately, with the possible exception of the istD, there isn't a Pentax DSLR that is built for long term pro use. They are, essentially, a high end semi disposable point and shoot.

06-24-2008, 07:03 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
The third from the top plug is a specialty plug for a flash. That end plugs into a flash (I don't know which make/model).
I have a Nissin that uses a plug that looks like that...
06-24-2008, 08:18 PM   #18
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Ben 0r anyone else who knows---,

I have been shooting with a *istDl and K100 D until recently. I have been using a basic light set up that I purchased from Steve Kaiser Photography. I bought the kind of hot shoe trigger that you plug the cord into. I got sick and tired of the cord falling out at the most imperfedt time.
So, I purchased the wireless trigger that mounts to the hot shoe. It worked great. I would set the camera on M and adjust the setting on the lights to my liking.

Then, after joining this forum I decided to upgrade to the K20. I am still having trouble understanding all of the settings. But, I put the trigger on my camera and set the Mode to X. My results have been good, but it sets the ISO to 100 and the F-Stop at 2.8. I have to post process a little.

Is there a better way? What am I doing wrong. Am I doing anything that could damage my new camera. I have several sessions this week. Please give me some feedback.
06-24-2008, 09:16 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by dkittle Quote
I bought a Nikon adapter to provide a PC sync via my K10D's hotshoe. The K20D manual states that the PC Sync socket is not weather resistent
yes I know this, but according to the high-ups (we all know his name) at pentax it is. I somehow lost my cover, requested one (actually several and at what ever cost) and really b*tched when they said none for a few months and I said great, a $1200 camera is now weather-void due to a $.0002 piece of plastic cover missing that I cant get a replacement for. Well I have that email saved for when the camera frys due to that missing and I have a piece of tape over it now till I can get a new one.

06-24-2008, 09:44 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rene` Quote
Ben 0r anyone else who knows---,

I have been shooting with a *istDl and K100 D until recently. I have been using a basic light set up that I purchased from Steve Kaiser Photography. I bought the kind of hot shoe trigger that you plug the cord into. I got sick and tired of the cord falling out at the most imperfedt time.
So, I purchased the wireless trigger that mounts to the hot shoe. It worked great. I would set the camera on M and adjust the setting on the lights to my liking.

Then, after joining this forum I decided to upgrade to the K20. I am still having trouble understanding all of the settings. But, I put the trigger on my camera and set the Mode to X. My results have been good, but it sets the ISO to 100 and the F-Stop at 2.8. I have to post process a little.

Is there a better way? What am I doing wrong. Am I doing anything that could damage my new camera. I have several sessions this week. Please give me some feedback.
Why don't you set the camera to M and carry on like you did with your previous cameras?
Although, I'm not understanding the adjustment you seem to be having forced onto you. All X is, is a discreet manual exposure shutter speed. It shouldn't be forcing ISO and aperture.
I think if you were doing anything that would damage your camera, you'd know about it by now.
06-24-2008, 10:03 PM   #21
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Useless for Most

I bet the PC socket is useless for most (Pentax) users who won't need to do studio works forever.

QuoteOriginally posted by benjikan Quote
Who has used the PC "X" Sync on the Pentax K20D yet? That was one of my major critiques to Pentax when it did not appear on the K10D. Every camera should have one, even the entry level DSLR's. It opens up a lot more possibilities. I did not like having to stick a cube adapter on my hot shoe that allowed me to plug in a cable in the event that the remote died on me. All SLR's in the past had them. Why not today?

Ben
06-24-2008, 10:41 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by RiceHigh Quote
I bet the PC socket is useless for most (Pentax) users who won't need to do studio works forever.
You can pick any particular thing and say the same thing. How many pictures do you suppose get taken at 1/4000 second? For most of us, most of the time, that is a useless feature.
There are certain things that a camera needs if it is to be taken seriously by advanced users, be they amateur or professional. A good viewfinder is one, the ability to be able to hook up to a flash system is another.

They can't custom build cameras to suit individuals, all they can do is try to load enough stuff that people will find useful, no matter their photographic bent, onto their cameras to make the product appealing to as many users as possible.
06-25-2008, 04:53 AM   #23
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Disagreed

The PC sync socket is really not needed for average joe who never need to do flash photography in a studio. It is not comparable to standard feature like 1/4000th or even 1/8000th Tv speed, which, whilst maybe rarely use, still somedays will be found useful by the user, occasionally.

For those who never do jobs in a studio by using flash, I have to say the PC socket is useless but just add manufacturing cost and one more failure point (e.g. for moisture to enter) at the camera.

QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
You can pick any particular thing and say the same thing. How many pictures do you suppose get taken at 1/4000 second? For most of us, most of the time, that is a useless feature.
There are certain things that a camera needs if it is to be taken seriously by advanced users, be they amateur or professional. A good viewfinder is one, the ability to be able to hook up to a flash system is another.

They can't custom build cameras to suit individuals, all they can do is try to load enough stuff that people will find useful, no matter their photographic bent, onto their cameras to make the product appealing to as many users as possible.


06-25-2008, 05:51 AM   #24
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RH, remember film cameras of the past... practically most of them had a PC sync sockets as standard.

A top level camera like the K20D has to be adaptable and have a feature set that caters to different types of photographers shooting different types of subjects.

One of the criticisms of preceding Pentax DSLRs was the noticeable omission of this socket. In fact I just used it today on my K20D. I'm glad Pentax took the effort to listen to feedback and incorporate it back. Even with the use of wireless and IR triggers nowadays, it still makes sense to have it.
06-25-2008, 06:06 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by RiceHigh Quote
The PC sync socket is really not needed for average joe who never need to do flash photography in a studio. It is not comparable to standard feature like 1/4000th or even 1/8000th Tv speed, which, whilst maybe rarely use, still somedays will be found useful by the user, occasionally.

For those who never do jobs in a studio by using flash, I have to say the PC socket is useless but just add manufacturing cost and one more failure point (e.g. for moisture to enter) at the camera.
I can tell you for a fact, I have used a PC socket infinitely more often than 1/4000 second, which I don't think I have ever used. I have also never had a camera fail directly because of a PC socket, nor have I ever had water get into a camera via a PC socket.

If Pentax wants to aim the K20 at something more than the average Joe, then they need to put more than average Joe features onto it. If they want to make a camera aimed at the average Joe, they have it in the K200D, which is still more camera than what average Joe will use. Average Joe isn't going to use most of what is available on the K20. Average Joe is going to put the camera onto the green program mode, use the kit lens that came with the camera as his primary lens, may possibly have a longer version of the kit lens which gets used at his or her kid's soccer games, and not anywhere else.

Your agreement or disagreement isn't required here. I spent over 20 years selling cameras and working in retail environment photo labs. I know the average user quite well, and I know of what I speak.
And I know that your disagreeing with me puts you on the wrong side of things in this discussion.

Best
bill
06-25-2008, 06:09 AM   #26
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I did set it on M....

QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
Why don't you set the camera to M and carry on like you did with your previous cameras?
Although, I'm not understanding the adjustment you seem to be having forced onto you. All X is, is a discreet manual exposure shutter speed. It shouldn't be forcing ISO and aperture.
I think if you were doing anything that would damage your camera, you'd know about it by now.
Thanks for you response Wheatfield!

When I set my K20 to M--- it didn't work the way it did with my K100 or the *istDL. That was why I was asking if I was doing something wrong.

I was hoping for a cure to my problem.
06-25-2008, 06:15 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rene` Quote
Thanks for you response Wheatfield!

When I set my K20 to M--- it didn't work the way it did with my K100 or the *istDL. That was why I was asking if I was doing something wrong.

I was hoping for a cure to my problem.
I'm just not understanding how a flash trigger can cause this. From this regard, the k20 should work exactly the same as the k100 or istDL. The settings should still be adjustable.
06-25-2008, 06:48 AM   #28
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"Average Joe"

QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
If Pentax wants to aim the K20 at something more than the average Joe, then they need to put more than average Joe features onto it. If they want to make a camera aimed at the average Joe, they have it in the K200D, which is still more camera than what average Joe will use. Average Joe isn't going to use most of what is available on the K20. Average Joe is going to put the camera onto the green program mode, use the kit lens that came with the camera as his primary lens, may possibly have a longer version of the kit lens which gets used at his or her kid's soccer games, and not anywhere else.
That sounds very familiar, it seems that I am one of the "Average Joe" you describe just because I use an "average joe" K100D and I do like to put a kit lens on it to shoot casually.

QuoteQuote:
Your agreement or disagreement isn't required here. I spent over 20 years selling cameras and working in retail environment photo labs. I know the average user quite well, and I know of what I speak.
And I know that your disagreeing with me puts you on the wrong side of things in this discussion.
Well, I won't argue with you further just because I am just a little "average Joe", I think :-)
06-25-2008, 07:11 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by RiceHigh Quote
The PC sync socket is really not needed for average joe who never need to do flash photography in a studio. It is not comparable to standard feature like 1/4000th or even 1/8000th Tv speed, which, whilst maybe rarely use, still somedays will be found useful by the user, occasionally.

For those who never do jobs in a studio by using flash, I have to say the PC socket is useless but just add manufacturing cost and one more failure point (e.g. for moisture to enter) at the camera.
I really could have used one for some outdoor shooting the other day Rice, and wish that I had one.

I wanted to light a tunnel, part way down and my remote setup just wasn't giving me the range required.

Just say that I didn't get the effect I desired.
06-25-2008, 07:19 AM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
OK, in your picture, the two sockets on the outsides (they are the same plug) are the PC plug that attaches to a standard camera PC socket. The second one from the top is a female end of a PC socket, and would be one end of an extension PC cord. The third from the top plug is a specialty plug for a flash. That end plugs into a flash (I don't know which make/model).
So you're saying I should be able to get a cable that has the same plug at both ends, like the two outer sockets in my photo, but the fancy photo shop in town just didn't have them.


And as to the discussion of the pc outlet, it's one of the items on my list that caused me to upgrade from the K10D. I used to do candid and street photography with my film cameras by holding a flash in my left hand and the camera in my right. Got pretty good at aiming the thing by eye. So I'm looking forward to trying it again with the K20D. So each feature has an appeal for someone. I haven't looked into this Liveview thing yet, maybe never will, but I'm sure it appeals to someone too.

Different buttons for different folks.
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