PC "X" Sync

benjikan · 06-23-2008, 12:35 PM

Who has used the PC "X" Sync on the Pentax K20D yet? That was one of my major critiques to Pentax when it did not appear on the K10D. Every camera should have one, even the entry level DSLR's. It opens up a lot more possibilities. I did not like having to stick a cube adapter on my hot shoe that allowed me to plug in a cable in the event that the remote died on me. All SLR's in the past had them. Why not today?

Ben

dkittle · 06-23-2008, 01:02 PM

I bought a Nikon adapter to provide a PC sync via my K10D's hotshoe. The K20D manual states that the PC Sync socket is not weather resistent so I leave the cap on the socket and use the adapter on the K20D :-) Besides, I find my cables don't like to stay in the sockets so I've become accustomed to wrapping the cable around the hotshoe adapter once, so that the cable doesn't slip out of the socket.

noblepa · 06-23-2008, 01:55 PM

I have a K10D, not a K20D, but I agree with Ben that it should have been there all along.

That said, none of the flash units that I own, that have a PC cord, are safe to use on my K10D, so its not a major issue for me. IIRC, I read that the PC socket on the K20D is protected from the high trigger voltage of older flashes. If they had provided such a socket on the K10D, I would definitely be using it.

However, it is not practical to have dedicated, or even TTL, flash functions via a PC socket. Pentax/Honeywell did it in the sixties with the Spotmatic IIa and the Strobonar 772, but that was pretty crude.

I think that many people these days just buy a shoe-mounted, dedicated flash, such as the AF360FGZ or AF540FGZ. Don't most pros, including you, Ben, use radio transmitters for off-camera slave flash units? The way that dedicated flashes have been built in the last twenty years or so involves additional pins on the hot shoe. This trend does limit the demand for a PC socket.

Look at how many posts there are on this and other forums regarding how to use older flashes on new dslrs. The questions very often demonstrate a lack of understanding of how to calculate flash exposure. The poster often just knows that you attach the flash and turn it on. The flash and camera do the rest.

As Pentax inches their way toward a "professional" camera (yes, Ben, I know you are a professional, but we all know that Pentax has not targeted professional photographers since they dropped the medium format film cameras) they will add more features like this that are not intended for newbies to use.

My question is, why can they protect the PC socket, but not the hot shoe, from high trigger voltage? It really doesn't require much circuitry.

PENTAX K · 06-23-2008, 03:32 PM

Since this topic is addressing a question I have had for a while, let me ask it now. Why has Pentax not been billing the 20 as at the least a prosumer camera. The most cred they give it is "advanced amateur". This tells me one thing, and that is that there is a pro camera around the corner.

I do find it insulting that no one gives the 20 a pro level of consideration. What are the forums thought on this?

Last edited by PENTAX K; 06-23-2008 at 03:53 PM.

ChrisA · 06-23-2008, 03:39 PM

Originally posted by PENTAX K

I do find it insulting that no one gives the 20 a pro level of consideration. What are the forums thought on this?

If a pro uses one, does it make him less a pro, just because it's pitched at a particular market?

If a non-pro uses one, would it make him a pro, if it was described as a pro camera?

Of course not, in either case.

So why does it insult you?

benjikan · 06-23-2008, 03:53 PM

Originally posted by noblepa

I have a K10D, not a K20D, but I agree with Ben that it should have been there all along.

That said, none of the flash units that I own, that have a PC cord, are safe to use on my K10D, so its not a major issue for me. IIRC, I read that the PC socket on the K20D is protected from the high trigger voltage of older flashes. If they had provided such a socket on the K10D, I would definitely be using it.

However, it is not practical to have dedicated, or even TTL, flash functions via a PC socket. Pentax/Honeywell did it in the sixties with the Spotmatic IIa and the Strobonar 772, but that was pretty crude.

I think that many people these days just buy a shoe-mounted, dedicated flash, such as the AF360FGZ or AF540FGZ. Don't most pros, including you, Ben, use radio transmitters for off-camera slave flash units? The way that dedicated flashes have been built in the last twenty years or so involves additional pins on the hot shoe. This trend does limit the demand for a PC socket.

Look at how many posts there are on this and other forums regarding how to use older flashes on new dslrs. The questions very often demonstrate a lack of understanding of how to calculate flash exposure. The poster often just knows that you attach the flash and turn it on. The flash and camera do the rest.

As Pentax inches their way toward a "professional" camera (yes, Ben, I know you are a professional, but we all know that Pentax has not targeted professional photographers since they dropped the medium format film cameras) they will add more features like this that are not intended for newbies to use.

My question is, why can they protect the PC socket, but not the hot shoe, from high trigger voltage? It really doesn't require much circuitry.

I generally use radio transmitters, but...They have cacked out on occasion.

Ben

PENTAX K · 06-23-2008, 06:17 PM

Originally posted by ChrisA

If a pro uses one, does it make him less a pro, just because it's pitched at a particular market?

If a non-pro uses one, would it make him a pro, if it was described as a pro camera?

Of course not, in either case.

So why does it insult you?

i mis"spoke" when I said insults "me". Rather, I feel it insults the product (K20D). Agreed that the the user rather than the tool make it "pro" level.

Seems like with all of the features of this camera, it would be rated above a hobbyist's tool. And for Pentax to designate it as: "advanced photo enthusiasts" makes me curious if there is a higher level product in the near pipeline.

joefru · 06-23-2008, 06:30 PM

I don't know how everyone else reads it, but I consider a "prosumer" camera to be intended for an advanced amateur. Actually, I consider the Kx0D line to be a step above "prosumer." BenjiKan's a pro. He uses a K20D. Does that make it a pro camera? Not necessarily, but I think the features speak for themselves.

morfic · 06-23-2008, 07:38 PM

I liked to see i had one, but have not used it yet, had no reason to touch the studio strobe, and if i do, i have some radio triggers that albeit cheap worked so well, i had no reason to unpack my sync cord. So all i can say is that it struck me as odd that it was missing on the K10D.

PDL · 06-23-2008, 07:47 PM

I was appaled at the lack of an x-sync plug on SLR's since the SF-1 was out. My last set of 35mm SLR's all had x and bulb sync sockets built in. While the inclusion of the sync will not spur me to buy a K20D, when I buy my next SLR - it will have one.

The Elitist - formerly known as PDL

Wheatfield · 06-23-2008, 10:18 PM

Originally posted by benjikan

Who has used the PC "X" Sync on the Pentax K20D yet? That was one of my major critiques to Pentax when it did not appear on the K10D. Every camera should have one, even the entry level DSLR's. It opens up a lot more possibilities. I did not like having to stick a cube adapter on my hot shoe that allowed me to plug in a cable in the event that the remote died on me. All SLR's in the past had them. Why not today?

Ben

I used my PC socket on my K20 just the other day with my Metz 60 CT-2 flash.
For me, this is one of the features that separates cameras intended for professional applications from cameras intended for amateur use. They started taking them off of cameras when they started putting dedicated hot shoes onto them. Flash units that needed 3 or more contact points to work with the camera, combined with the very real fact that most photographers put the flash onto the shoe and don't worry about the fact they are getting crap light made the PC socket less important in the minds of the manufacturers.
Pentax got that part of the game really right with the LX system and it's modified PC socket for allowing off camera dedication with their flash units, and then dropped the ball when the SF and later cameras came out. I was very happy that the istD had a PC socket, and very annoyed with them for leaving it off the K10, as I also don't like the hot shoe adapters. It's just one more thing to go wrong at the worst moment.

and · 06-24-2008, 01:36 AM

What I thought was the most strange about it all was that the istD had one, it would have been logical to keep it since the k10d could be considered an upgrade/update of the D. And then its just a small port how hard could it be, its not like in body stabilization or something that actually takes some effort to implement

cygnet · 06-24-2008, 01:05 PM

I've actually got a question about all this. I just now yesterday tried to use the PC sync outlet on my new K20D. I pulled out all my old cables, but none of them fit. The pc cables that I have are two types: one has a larger diameter plug with a pin you can see inside on one end, and a smaller diameter plug with two rings on the other end. The smaller end will fit inside the larger. The other type I have has the same plug with a pin on one end but the other end is a male pin versus a female plug. So I went to the camera store in town and they only had the kinds that I already own. It would seem I need a cable with the same plug ( the large diameter plug with internal pin) on both ends, for both the camera and flash, which is a Nikon SB-28. Is this normal, and I just didn't happen to find the right cable, or is there something unusual about this setup? I guess a photo might be in order. I need a cable that has the same end on both ends, like the outermost plug on these cables. I was taken aback that the camera store didn't have such a thing.

mattdm · 06-24-2008, 04:10 PM

Originally posted by joefru

I don't know how everyone else reads it, but I consider a "prosumer" camera to be intended for an advanced amateur. Actually, I consider the Kx0D line to be a step above "prosumer." BenjiKan's a pro. He uses a K20D. Does that make it a pro camera? Not necessarily, but I think the features speak for themselves.

"Pro" is a weird fascination with photography enthusiasts. A select few pros get to do cool artistic stuff like Ben. A few more get to do other interesting largely discretionary work and make money at it. The rest are, y'know, taking pictures of kids on Santa's lap.

Now, please don't be insulted — nothing wrong with that as a vocation, but the requirements for that are way different than those for someone who enjoys taking photographs and wants a high-quality advanced-feature camera body. I imagine that if I were a pro photographer, I'd want something different for work and for pleasure.

For comparison: the standard "pro" computer is a low-powered beige desktop model with onboard graphics and sound, and a 17" low-res LCD. What's so exciting about "pro" equipment?

For me, "advanced amateur" is a much better label than the "prosumer" market term.

Wheatfield · 06-24-2008, 04:12 PM

Originally posted by cygnet

I've actually got a question about all this. I just now yesterday tried to use the PC sync outlet on my new K20D. I pulled out all my old cables, but none of them fit. The pc cables that I have are two types: one has a larger diameter plug with a pin you can see inside on one end, and a smaller diameter plug with two rings on the other end. The smaller end will fit inside the larger. The other type I have has the same plug with a pin on one end but the other end is a male pin versus a female plug. So I went to the camera store in town and they only had the kinds that I already own. It would seem I need a cable with the same plug ( the large diameter plug with internal pin) on both ends, for both the camera and flash, which is a Nikon SB-28. Is this normal, and I just didn't happen to find the right cable, or is there something unusual about this setup? I guess a photo might be in order. I need a cable that has the same end on both ends, like the outermost plug on these cables. I was taken aback that the camera store didn't have such a thing.

OK, in your picture, the two sockets on the outsides (they are the same plug) are the PC plug that attaches to a standard camera PC socket. The second one from the top is a female end of a PC socket, and would be one end of an extension PC cord. The third from the top plug is a specialty plug for a flash. That end plugs into a flash (I don't know which make/model).

06-23-2008, 12:35 PM	#1
benjikan Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Paris, France Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,308	PC "X" Sync Who has used the PC "X" Sync on the Pentax K20D yet? That was one of my major critiques to Pentax when it did not appear on the K10D. Every camera should have one, even the entry level DSLR's. It opens up a lot more possibilities. I did not like having to stick a cube adapter on my hot shoe that allowed me to plug in a cable in the event that the remote died on me. All SLR's in the past had them. Why not today? Ben

06-23-2008, 01:55 PM	#3
noblepa Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bay Village, Ohio USA Posts: 1,142	PC socket I have a K10D, not a K20D, but I agree with Ben that it should have been there all along. That said, none of the flash units that I own, that have a PC cord, are safe to use on my K10D, so its not a major issue for me. IIRC, I read that the PC socket on the K20D is protected from the high trigger voltage of older flashes. If they had provided such a socket on the K10D, I would definitely be using it. However, it is not practical to have dedicated, or even TTL, flash functions via a PC socket. Pentax/Honeywell did it in the sixties with the Spotmatic IIa and the Strobonar 772, but that was pretty crude. I think that many people these days just buy a shoe-mounted, dedicated flash, such as the AF360FGZ or AF540FGZ. Don't most pros, including you, Ben, use radio transmitters for off-camera slave flash units? The way that dedicated flashes have been built in the last twenty years or so involves additional pins on the hot shoe. This trend does limit the demand for a PC socket. Look at how many posts there are on this and other forums regarding how to use older flashes on new dslrs. The questions very often demonstrate a lack of understanding of how to calculate flash exposure. The poster often just knows that you attach the flash and turn it on. The flash and camera do the rest. As Pentax inches their way toward a "professional" camera (yes, Ben, I know you are a professional, but we all know that Pentax has not targeted professional photographers since they dropped the medium format film cameras) they will add more features like this that are not intended for newbies to use. My question is, why can they protect the PC socket, but not the hot shoe, from high trigger voltage? It really doesn't require much circuitry.

06-23-2008, 06:17 PM	#7
PENTAX K Inactive Account Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Melbourne,FL Posts: 9	correction Originally posted by ChrisA If a pro uses one, does it make him less a pro, just because it's pitched at a particular market? If a non-pro uses one, would it make him a pro, if it was described as a pro camera? Of course not, in either case. So why does it insult you? i mis"spoke" when I said insults "me". Rather, I feel it insults the product (K20D). Agreed that the the user rather than the tool make it "pro" level. Seems like with all of the features of this camera, it would be rated above a hobbyist's tool. And for Pentax to designate it as: "advanced photo enthusiasts" makes me curious if there is a higher level product in the near pipeline.

06-24-2008, 01:05 PM	#13
cygnet Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Hill Country Texas Photos: Gallery Posts: 104	I've actually got a question about all this. I just now yesterday tried to use the PC sync outlet on my new K20D. I pulled out all my old cables, but none of them fit. The pc cables that I have are two types: one has a larger diameter plug with a pin you can see inside on one end, and a smaller diameter plug with two rings on the other end. The smaller end will fit inside the larger. The other type I have has the same plug with a pin on one end but the other end is a male pin versus a female plug. So I went to the camera store in town and they only had the kinds that I already own. It would seem I need a cable with the same plug ( the large diameter plug with internal pin) on both ends, for both the camera and flash, which is a Nikon SB-28. Is this normal, and I just didn't happen to find the right cable, or is there something unusual about this setup? I guess a photo might be in order. I need a cable that has the same end on both ends, like the outermost plug on these cables. I was taken aback that the camera store didn't have such a thing. Attached Images

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06-23-2008, 01:02 PM	#2
dkittle Inactive Account Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Toronto, Ontario Photos: Gallery Posts: 429	I bought a Nikon adapter to provide a PC sync via my K10D's hotshoe. The K20D manual states that the PC Sync socket is not weather resistent so I leave the cap on the socket and use the adapter on the K20D :-) Besides, I find my cables don't like to stay in the sockets so I've become accustomed to wrapping the cable around the hotshoe adapter once, so that the cable doesn't slip out of the socket.

06-23-2008, 03:32 PM	#4
PENTAX K Inactive Account Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Melbourne,FL Posts: 9	Since this topic is addressing a question I have had for a while, let me ask it now. Why has Pentax not been billing the 20 as at the least a prosumer camera. The most cred they give it is "advanced amateur". This tells me one thing, and that is that there is a pro camera around the corner. I do find it insulting that no one gives the 20 a pro level of consideration. What are the forums thought on this? Last edited by PENTAX K; 06-23-2008 at 03:53 PM.

06-23-2008, 03:39 PM	#5
ChrisA Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: London Posts: 393	Originally posted by PENTAX K I do find it insulting that no one gives the 20 a pro level of consideration. What are the forums thought on this? If a pro uses one, does it make him less a pro, just because it's pitched at a particular market? If a non-pro uses one, would it make him a pro, if it was described as a pro camera? Of course not, in either case. So why does it insult you?

06-23-2008, 03:53 PM	#6
benjikan Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Paris, France Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,308 Original Poster	Originally posted by noblepa I have a K10D, not a K20D, but I agree with Ben that it should have been there all along. That said, none of the flash units that I own, that have a PC cord, are safe to use on my K10D, so its not a major issue for me. IIRC, I read that the PC socket on the K20D is protected from the high trigger voltage of older flashes. If they had provided such a socket on the K10D, I would definitely be using it. However, it is not practical to have dedicated, or even TTL, flash functions via a PC socket. Pentax/Honeywell did it in the sixties with the Spotmatic IIa and the Strobonar 772, but that was pretty crude. I think that many people these days just buy a shoe-mounted, dedicated flash, such as the AF360FGZ or AF540FGZ. Don't most pros, including you, Ben, use radio transmitters for off-camera slave flash units? The way that dedicated flashes have been built in the last twenty years or so involves additional pins on the hot shoe. This trend does limit the demand for a PC socket. Look at how many posts there are on this and other forums regarding how to use older flashes on new dslrs. The questions very often demonstrate a lack of understanding of how to calculate flash exposure. The poster often just knows that you attach the flash and turn it on. The flash and camera do the rest. As Pentax inches their way toward a "professional" camera (yes, Ben, I know you are a professional, but we all know that Pentax has not targeted professional photographers since they dropped the medium format film cameras) they will add more features like this that are not intended for newbies to use. My question is, why can they protect the PC socket, but not the hot shoe, from high trigger voltage? It really doesn't require much circuitry. I generally use radio transmitters, but...They have cacked out on occasion. Ben

06-23-2008, 06:30 PM	#8
joefru Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: South Louisiana Photos: Gallery Posts: 210	I don't know how everyone else reads it, but I consider a "prosumer" camera to be intended for an advanced amateur. Actually, I consider the Kx0D line to be a step above "prosumer." BenjiKan's a pro. He uses a K20D. Does that make it a pro camera? Not necessarily, but I think the features speak for themselves.

06-23-2008, 07:38 PM	#9
morfic Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: San Antonio, TX Photos: Gallery Posts: 428	I liked to see i had one, but have not used it yet, had no reason to touch the studio strobe, and if i do, i have some radio triggers that albeit cheap worked so well, i had no reason to unpack my sync cord. So all i can say is that it struck me as odd that it was missing on the K10D.

06-23-2008, 07:47 PM	#10
PDL Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: PNW USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,127	I was appaled at the lack of an x-sync plug on SLR's since the SF-1 was out. My last set of 35mm SLR's all had x and bulb sync sockets built in. While the inclusion of the sync will not spur me to buy a K20D, when I buy my next SLR - it will have one. The Elitist - formerly known as PDL

06-23-2008, 10:18 PM	#11
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,981	Originally posted by benjikan Who has used the PC "X" Sync on the Pentax K20D yet? That was one of my major critiques to Pentax when it did not appear on the K10D. Every camera should have one, even the entry level DSLR's. It opens up a lot more possibilities. I did not like having to stick a cube adapter on my hot shoe that allowed me to plug in a cable in the event that the remote died on me. All SLR's in the past had them. Why not today? Ben I used my PC socket on my K20 just the other day with my Metz 60 CT-2 flash. For me, this is one of the features that separates cameras intended for professional applications from cameras intended for amateur use. They started taking them off of cameras when they started putting dedicated hot shoes onto them. Flash units that needed 3 or more contact points to work with the camera, combined with the very real fact that most photographers put the flash onto the shoe and don't worry about the fact they are getting crap light made the PC socket less important in the minds of the manufacturers. Pentax got that part of the game really right with the LX system and it's modified PC socket for allowing off camera dedication with their flash units, and then dropped the ball when the SF and later cameras came out. I was very happy that the istD had a PC socket, and very annoyed with them for leaving it off the K10, as I also don't like the hot shoe adapters. It's just one more thing to go wrong at the worst moment.

06-24-2008, 01:36 AM	#12
and Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,476	What I thought was the most strange about it all was that the istD had one, it would have been logical to keep it since the k10d could be considered an upgrade/update of the D. And then its just a small port how hard could it be, its not like in body stabilization or something that actually takes some effort to implement

06-24-2008, 04:10 PM	#14
mattdm Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Boston, MA Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,948	Originally posted by joefru I don't know how everyone else reads it, but I consider a "prosumer" camera to be intended for an advanced amateur. Actually, I consider the Kx0D line to be a step above "prosumer." BenjiKan's a pro. He uses a K20D. Does that make it a pro camera? Not necessarily, but I think the features speak for themselves. "Pro" is a weird fascination with photography enthusiasts. A select few pros get to do cool artistic stuff like Ben. A few more get to do other interesting largely discretionary work and make money at it. The rest are, y'know, taking pictures of kids on Santa's lap. Now, please don't be insulted — nothing wrong with that as a vocation, but the requirements for that are way different than those for someone who enjoys taking photographs and wants a high-quality advanced-feature camera body. I imagine that if I were a pro photographer, I'd want something different for work and for pleasure. For comparison: the standard "pro" computer is a low-powered beige desktop model with onboard graphics and sound, and a 17" low-res LCD. What's so exciting about "pro" equipment? For me, "advanced amateur" is a much better label than the "prosumer" market term.

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06-24-2008, 04:12 PM	#15
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,981	Originally posted by cygnet I've actually got a question about all this. I just now yesterday tried to use the PC sync outlet on my new K20D. I pulled out all my old cables, but none of them fit. The pc cables that I have are two types: one has a larger diameter plug with a pin you can see inside on one end, and a smaller diameter plug with two rings on the other end. The smaller end will fit inside the larger. The other type I have has the same plug with a pin on one end but the other end is a male pin versus a female plug. So I went to the camera store in town and they only had the kinds that I already own. It would seem I need a cable with the same plug ( the large diameter plug with internal pin) on both ends, for both the camera and flash, which is a Nikon SB-28. Is this normal, and I just didn't happen to find the right cable, or is there something unusual about this setup? I guess a photo might be in order. I need a cable that has the same end on both ends, like the outermost plug on these cables. I was taken aback that the camera store didn't have such a thing. OK, in your picture, the two sockets on the outsides (they are the same plug) are the PC plug that attaches to a standard camera PC socket. The second one from the top is a female end of a PC socket, and would be one end of an extension PC cord. The third from the top plug is a specialty plug for a flash. That end plugs into a flash (I don't know which make/model).