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10-30-2015, 08:25 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by JohnX Quote
It's the photographer who makes the shot, NOT the equipment he/she uses.
Well that's just the point, isn't it? If the Pentaxian can hold his own among the Nikon full-frames, either the cameras or the people using them, or both, are going to be shown up in a big way. If they don't have egos the size of a mountain, they'll accept that he is the better photographer; if not, they will throw their cameras on the ground, stamp on the bits, and charge headlong to the nearest store as soon as the Pentax FF comes on sale. Win-win, I say!

If OP does whatever he usually does to the best of his ability, that should be all that needs doing. And if there are any post-processing tricks that will enable his K-5 to shine, chances are he'll learn them at this workshop!

QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
Why do you need the workshop if you are an accomplished landscape photographer?
Because even an expert can learn something new from others sometimes.

10-30-2015, 08:26 AM - 2 Likes   #17
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I attended a workshop last November in a desert region of the US with several other shooters. I shot my K-3 and Fuji X-T1 vs the others with D810, D800, 5D MKIII. At the final meeting we each showed 5 images we felt were our best, I went last. The PRO photographer responded to my last image stating that, "I wish I shot that". It's not the camera or even the lens, it's the eye for composition and knowing what you need to do to get the job done. JMHO
10-30-2015, 08:28 AM   #18
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and who is that Nikon ambassador and a Lightroom specialist ^^ I'm curious as always waiting for the outcome photos of yours as well ^^
10-30-2015, 08:42 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by WPRESTO Quote
Do your own thing. Do not waste time defending your equipment. Let the images speak for themselves.
Anecdote: In college I had two photo-buddies, one, like me, used a Pentax, but Chuck had a Leica M3. The local camera dealer was a Leica-snob: "You can always see the superior image quality from Leica optics." We brought in about twenty slides, some taken with John & my Pentaxes, some taken by the M3, sometimes of the same subject taken side-by-side. We invited the dealer to pick out the superior Leica images to see how many he could get correct. He refused to try.
Back in the 80's I had a Leica M4 , a 35mm, 50 and a 90mm lenses for a weekend. I was considering buying an M4. I had my Pentax ES ll SLR and Takumar lenses.

Out of interest one afternoon, I took a variey of pictures...same subject, same lighting, similar focal length lenses...Leica, than Pentax...only separated by seconds.

When the negs were developed, I had a number enlarged to 8 X 10. I and a Nikon F owning, buddy couldn't tell the difference. My view, once you get to a certain level of equipment...it comes down to the photographer's skills.

10-30-2015, 10:09 AM   #20
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All very confident boosting comments. I am confident that the shoot will be a positive one for myself personally. Just getting out to a new location, especially one as beautiful as tuscany, and capturing that shot. I intend on sitting on my 16-50 and shooting always at iso100, liveview, and around F8-14 depending on conditions of course. As long as my composition is well balanced, there is good light, I am spot on with my focus and I have captured all required info in my histogram in RAW, I cant see why my little K5 won't impress those nikon boys. On a learnng level I will be interested to see what the nikon guys do and what results they get compared to my K5 (as I am an awaiting pentax FF user), and I think that learning some new software tips on lightroom will be great. TO answer that question, the instructor is a nikon user too. His name is Gabriele Lorenzini.
10-30-2015, 10:19 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mattox Quote
I shoot with a fa 35 f2, sdm 16-50, and on rare occasions 55-300 when needed. I use Cokin nd grads and a manfrotto tripod and almost exclusively shoot in liveview for spot on af.
Are UWA lenses not used very often for landscape photography?
10-30-2015, 01:44 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mattox Quote
All very confident boosting comments. I am confident that the shoot will be a positive one for myself personally. Just getting out to a new location, especially one as beautiful as tuscany, and capturing that shot. I intend on sitting on my 16-50 and shooting always at iso100, liveview, and around F8-14 .
f/8 is already in the visible range of diffraction on crop, and the blur/loss of resolution just keeps getting worse as you stop the lens down: Equivalence

f/11 on ff has the same dof as f/8 on crop, so the diffraction is the same also... i've tested all my wide glass at f/11 on the a7r, i can see the slight diffraction losses starting up in the center, at f/11, but it's not visible at f/10, so i only consider f/11 when it's absolutely necessary; perhaps to overcome lens abberations, or to clean up close foreground objects in a landscape shot.

every lens is different, so every lens has to be tested for this; just blindly throwing f/14 or f/16 at a photo, for no reason, will probably hurt p.q unnecessarily.

have a good time at the shoot, hope that you can share any new tricks that you might learn there.
10-30-2015, 03:30 PM - 1 Like   #23
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osv, this leaves you with the task of explaining why, decade after decade, professional lensmaking companies of all stripes continue to turn out lenses with minimum apertures of f/16, f/22 or even (for some macro and a few other prime lenses I've seen) f/32.

I have noted that my Takumars and a few early K mount lenses (mostly 3rd party) tend to go only up to f/16 and wondered if this was the reason, which in turn leads one to wonder what suddenly happened in the K series and after to give Asahi Optical the courage to go to f/22 on a fairly regular basis.

10-30-2015, 05:42 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by pathdoc Quote
osv, this leaves you with the task of explaining why, decade after decade, professional lensmaking companies of all stripes continue to turn out lenses with minimum apertures of f/16, f/22 or even (for some macro and a few other prime lenses I've seen) f/32.
those would have been almost all full-frame film cameras, not crop sensor-size film cameras... rare exceptions being 110 film, aps film, etc.

but more to the point, given the horribly low resolution of film, and primitive darkroom printing techniques, how could any pre-digital film camera company even know how bad diffraction and lens aberrations really were?

that's no excuse for today, tho, companies still pump out lenses with absurdly small aperture settings... i think that they do it as a sales gimmick, people simply don't know any better; for example, how many people on this forum have actually tested their lenses for diffraction? i bet that the o.p. of this thread didn't...

"This is why it’s important to test each lens in your arsenal for the point at which they are visibly affected by diffraction." https://luminous-landscape.com/understanding-lens-diffraction/

the counterpoint to blurring caused by diffraction is to try and sharpen your way out of it.
10-30-2015, 05:55 PM   #25
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The other problem with super small apertures is that you see how filthy your sensor really is!
10-31-2015, 01:09 AM   #26
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So basically with a 16-50 sdm shooting landscapes what would be the optimum f stop in your opinion based on past experience ??
10-31-2015, 03:59 AM   #27
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Okay, osv, you're trying to tell me you know better than ALL the professional optical engineers of ALL the lens companies over the last ten to fifteen years? Seriously? And you're trying to argue that 35mm film is really so bad across the board that nobody could tell what was happening? Seriously? Please excuse me if I have trouble swallowing all that.

You have all the markings of the photographic equivalent of a pharisee or inquisitor, examining every image minutely for the slightest hint of optical sin and never understanding that there can be beauty in imperfection.
10-31-2015, 04:57 AM - 1 Like   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mattox Quote
So in a fortnight I am off to Tuscany on a very interesting workshop in Val d'orcia Tuscany. The workshop is basically set up by an Italian Nikon ambassador and a Lightroom specialist. We are shooting 3 days of intensive sunrise, sunset and startrail landscapes. I have just found out that out of 11 group participants, 9 are all shooting with Nikon d800 and 810's and I am rocking up with my k5. Hahahah. I consider myself a very good landscape photographer with a particular eye for composition. I shoot with a fa 35 f2, sdm 16-50, and on rare occasions 55-300 when needed. I use Cokin nd grads and a manfrotto tripod and almost exclusively shoot in liveview for spot on af. So, I know I will probably get hammered by these Nikon guys with their big machine guns and I am hoping that my little k5 will shine against them when we go back for some post production, but any suggestions on how to let's say "defend myself". Funny post I know, but I thought it would be interesting to here back from you guys to see what you think. Even any technical tips to push the k5 to its limits
Let go of the idea that you have to defend yourself, your camera or your choice of camera, and just enjoy it. The world is not Pentax versus the rest, Muslim against the rest, black versus white or whatever. And even if it is, that doesn't matter. What matters is what you choose to believe.

That Nikon ambassador still needs to breathe, right? And eat, drink, pee and poo? So he's a human being first, probably a photographer second, and maybe a "Nikon ambassador" third.
10-31-2015, 06:12 AM - 1 Like   #29
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I think on APSC f8 is most often the optimum between resolution and DoF: most DoF and most resolution, least CA, and no diffraction. Often f5.6 can give slightly more resolution, but it will have much less DoF; so choose what you need. f11 can introduce diffraction, a sort of fuzziness, though this can be combated with PP sharpening (and "diffraction correction" if your camera hat that jpeg option) to some extent. And even if you don't have maximum resolution, even if the photo is slightly soft, its still not the end of the world. Often its a compromise you need to make
According to reviews, I think DA* 16-50mm is optimal at f8 on the wider end, but can go down to f11 at 50mm. f5.6 can give you a little more resolution, though. Also, I'm pretty certain the K-5IIs has MTF P, so you can let the camera choose the aperture that has the highest resolution (According to Pentax engineers) (though, not maximized for DoF). Ultimately, even things like lens and camera construction tolerances can play a role (Especially at UWA focal lengths, in my opinion). Anyway, its an interesting test to do, to get a more intimate knowledge of your gear. But don't break your head over it, either - if what you were doing so far worked for you, no need for drastic changes over night. Just something to keep in mind

Someone asked, why go to a workshop if you are already good? Well, because you can still get better. You probably learn something, even if not from the workshop alone, at least from the experience itself. And even if you don't, you still get to meet new people, photograph a new location/model (one that was scouted by a photographer, so it will probably be good), have some fun.

Good luck and enjoy the workshop
10-31-2015, 06:16 AM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
Why do you need the workshop if you are an accomplished landscape photographer?
What's the main reason guys do anything? He obviously goes for the photography chics.

Seriously though, what's the gender breakdown usually like on these types of events? I get the idea that the majority of the people on the forum are guys.
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