My k5 against 20 Nikon 800's

Mattox · 11-06-2015, 12:51 PM

Originally posted by pathdoc

Okay, if you can do that handheld in a hurry with a cranky K-5, you've got nothing to fear. Blow 'em away.

Cheers pathdoc. Really means a lot to me

bertwert · 11-06-2015, 01:01 PM - **1 Like**

That's an amazing photo!

**RobA_Oz** · 11-06-2015, 01:30 PM

Originally posted by cali92rs

The title of this thread already implies it is "Pentax vs the World". Full of themselves Nikon owners....lol. How isnt this, by definition, inferiority complex?

I am sure that there are holier than thou Nikonians just like there are Pentaxians that make fun of MILC owners that hold their cameras at arms length away from their face. But the vast majority of both dont really care at all...they just want to own the best equipment that they can afford with the least amount of hassle.

Observing that someone is "full of themselves" is by no means an indication of an inferiority complex! It's a conclusion based on observation of the person's behaviour. It may not be either complete or accurate, of course.

No-one here, least of all me, has suggested that all Nikon owners are like that, just as not all bike riders are fanatically competitive, but if you turn up to a bike ride on something different to the majority, you know there's a fair chance you're going to attract a derogatory comment from some.

Mattox · 11-16-2015, 01:21 AM

So for those of you who were Interested in how the workshop went well, terrible conditions for 3 days really, after 2 days of shooting we realized that my 16-50 sdm is broken again (the barrel is moving quite a lot which in some way is causing the lens to not focus properly), but I managed to salvage some Pentax reputation and some half decent photos mounting what I had left, the fa 35mm f2, not ideal for landscapes but better than nothing. At the end of the workshop compared to the 810's, and Sony a7's my photographic eye and technique was complimented quite highly but the general feedback was that I am limited by using the k5. For landscapes I need the resolution. It's a shame the lens broke I must say. Would be happy to post some photo of the workshop if anyone is interested

aacjr · 11-16-2015, 01:27 AM

Yes I am interested in seeing some of your photos. I also shoot with the K-5.

redcat · 11-16-2015, 02:50 AM

Originally posted by Mattox

Would be happy to post some photo of the workshop if anyone is interested

we are all interested

and what did you learn after the workshop ? some technique ? some trick ? some pp tips ? Please share with us (if u don't mind)

Mattox · 11-16-2015, 03:26 AM - **1 Like**

I learnt a lot from the workshop really. I found that some basic fundamentals are essential in landscape photography (well all photography really). There at essential in camera settings that you need to apply to raw prior to shooting. These I should probably discuss in a separate topic. Within the group however there was another pentaxians who shot with a ks and a 15mm. Looking over our shots in raw up against the big bad FF of canon, Nikon and Sony, the difference in DR, resolution, noise and especially sharpness was significant. After this experience the move to FF is a must. If Pentax don't show something soon and something that is going to compare especially to the 810 of Nikon the move over to another brand is going to have to happen to me. The true landscape photographer need to keep his shots so precise all round and all the the Lightroom in the world won't change the final results if these are not respected.

redcat · 11-16-2015, 06:40 AM

Originally posted by Mattox

the difference in DR, resolution, noise and especially sharpness was significant

I find the same when shooting wedding with another Canon 5D guy, I retouch all the photos from both cameras (mine is K3) and create the final album and I see the difference is significant ! the Canon FF has better DR, noise and color tone (ex : skin tone, blue, orange), I hate to admit that my newly bought K3 is not up to the Canon FF level, hope the new Pentax FF will be on shelf soon !

pathdoc · 11-16-2015, 06:58 AM

I suspect the colour tones are more a function of the RGB-space presets/algorithms inherent in the firmware (and those can be changed in menus, IIRC), but yeah, the DR/noise advantage seems to be inherent in the full-frame.

Rupert · 11-16-2015, 07:13 AM

It's not just a people/camera thing.......Squirrels have this same debate.

Some say bigger is better...

Others say two smaller is better...

I try to stay out of the argument when possible.

Regards!

JibbaJab · 11-16-2015, 08:46 AM

Originally posted by cali92rs

Plenty of folks do think that crop sensors or even full frame cameras are limiting...if they didn't, there would be no market for full frame or medium format cameras.
Why doesn't everyone shoot with with 1" sensor cameras or micro 4/3 cameras. It is because bigger sensors do indeed offer advantages. So no one should even discuss those advantages because that would be considered bullying?

Seriously, if someone brought a 645Z and said, man i love the way this camera makes my image pop! Would that be "pushing" someone with a D810?

Pentaxians can be sensitive even when no one is actually criticizing them. I think it's a defense mechanism they've developed to stay committed to Pentax despite the abuse they've suffered over the years as FF hopes arise, then are squashed. I think people who are truly content with their gear don't feel threatened by other people being enthusiastic about theirs.

Originally posted by Rupert

It's not just a people/camera thing.......Squirrels have this same debate.

Some say bigger is better...

Others say two smaller is better...

I try to stay out of the argument when possible.

Regards!

I bet the squirrel with the bigger one has a cheek-ache by the end of the day from lugging that thing around.

Mattox · 11-17-2015, 12:57 AM - **1 Like**

Here's the new post for those interested in landscape technique

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/38-photographic-technique/308083-camera-s...ml#post3432690

FantasticMrFox · 11-18-2015, 07:52 AM

Originally posted by Mattox

I learnt a lot from the workshop really. I found that some basic fundamentals are essential in landscape photography (well all photography really). There at essential in camera settings that you need to apply to raw prior to shooting. These I should probably discuss in a separate topic. Within the group however there was another pentaxians who shot with a ks and a 15mm. Looking over our shots in raw up against the big bad FF of canon, Nikon and Sony, the difference in DR, resolution, noise and especially sharpness was significant. After this experience the move to FF is a must. If Pentax don't show something soon and something that is going to compare especially to the 810 of Nikon the move over to another brand is going to have to happen to me. The true landscape photographer need to keep his shots so precise all round and all the the Lightroom in the world won't change the final results if these are not respected.

I'd assume the problem is more in that you are comparing a five year old camera to more modern ones. There are many excellent K3 landscape images to be found online, and when paired with a good lens the AA filterless K3/K3 II deliver results so sharp any disadvantage against a D810 becomes a purely theoretical point - measurable in the lab but irrelevant in real life. For all practical purposes (showing on the web, printing biiig) the sharpness is excellent. Declaring the move to FF as a 'must' is simply an excuse, I'd assume that you would not experience a general palpable improvement in your photography when switching to a FF.

"The true landscape photographer need to keep his shots so precise all round ...", that sounds like the workshop was more about turning participants into technical snobs than what actually matters in landscape photography: light, composition, and being in the right place at the right time.

Originally posted by redcat

I find the same when shooting wedding with another Canon 5D guy, I retouch all the photos from both cameras (mine is K3) and create the final album and I see the difference is significant ! the Canon FF has better DR, noise and color tone (ex : skin tone, blue, orange), I hate to admit that my newly bought K3 is not up to the Canon FF level, hope the new Pentax FF will be on shelf soon !

Wait a second there - I'm not surprised that the FF has better noise performance, colours etc., but DR? Based on reviews and the experiences of a lot of the online community Canon trails behind the competition in DR, even when comparing their FF offerings to others' APS-C offerings. The K3 has been tested to have a better dynamic range than the 5D Mk III, at least up to ISO800 or so

redcat · 11-18-2015, 09:01 AM

Originally posted by FantasticMrFox

Wait a second there - I'm not surprised that the FF has better noise performance, colours etc., but DR? Based on reviews and the experiences of a lot of the online community Canon trails behind the competition in DR, even when comparing their FF offerings to others' APS-C offerings. The K3 has been tested to have a better dynamic range than the 5D Mk III, at least up to ISO800 or so

I don't know if I use the term DR correctly, which I means is I can drag the exposure slide to the right in LR more before the photos look "weird" (it's not blown out yet), it might be technically still in the dynamic range but the overall (color, brightness) are not the same anymore @_@

Mattox · 11-25-2015, 04:16 AM - **1 Like**

Anyway, here is the results of the k5 after the workshop. I have selected a few pics for you guys to look at. I was surprised to find that against the others and there bug new boys, my photos did shine.

https://500px.com/photo/129415015

https://500px.com/photo/129475691

https://500px.com/photo/129645859

https://500px.com/photo/129766491

11-16-2015, 08:46 AM	#71
JibbaJab Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Southern California Posts: 362	Originally posted by cali92rs Plenty of folks do think that crop sensors or even full frame cameras are limiting...if they didn't, there would be no market for full frame or medium format cameras. Why doesn't everyone shoot with with 1" sensor cameras or micro 4/3 cameras. It is because bigger sensors do indeed offer advantages. So no one should even discuss those advantages because that would be considered bullying? Seriously, if someone brought a 645Z and said, man i love the way this camera makes my image pop! Would that be "pushing" someone with a D810? Pentaxians can be sensitive even when no one is actually criticizing them. I think it's a defense mechanism they've developed to stay committed to Pentax despite the abuse they've suffered over the years as FF hopes arise, then are squashed. I think people who are truly content with their gear don't feel threatened by other people being enthusiastic about theirs. Originally posted by Rupert It's not just a people/camera thing.......Squirrels have this same debate. Some say bigger is better... Others say two smaller is better... I try to stay out of the argument when possible. Regards! I bet the squirrel with the bigger one has a cheek-ache by the end of the day from lugging that thing around. Last edited by JibbaJab; 11-16-2015 at 09:00 AM.

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11-06-2015, 12:51 PM	#61
Mattox Senior Member Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 292 Original Poster	Originally posted by pathdoc Okay, if you can do that handheld in a hurry with a cranky K-5, you've got nothing to fear. Blow 'em away. Cheers pathdoc. Really means a lot to me

11-06-2015, 01:01 PM - 1 Like	#62
bertwert Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Golden, BC Posts: 15,173	That's an amazing photo!

11-06-2015, 01:30 PM	#63
RobA_Oz Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Tasmania, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,197	Originally posted by cali92rs The title of this thread already implies it is "Pentax vs the World". Full of themselves Nikon owners....lol. How isnt this, by definition, inferiority complex? I am sure that there are holier than thou Nikonians just like there are Pentaxians that make fun of MILC owners that hold their cameras at arms length away from their face. But the vast majority of both dont really care at all...they just want to own the best equipment that they can afford with the least amount of hassle. Observing that someone is "full of themselves" is by no means an indication of an inferiority complex! It's a conclusion based on observation of the person's behaviour. It may not be either complete or accurate, of course. No-one here, least of all me, has suggested that all Nikon owners are like that, just as not all bike riders are fanatically competitive, but if you turn up to a bike ride on something different to the majority, you know there's a fair chance you're going to attract a derogatory comment from some.

11-16-2015, 01:21 AM	#64
Mattox Senior Member Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 292 Original Poster	So for those of you who were Interested in how the workshop went well, terrible conditions for 3 days really, after 2 days of shooting we realized that my 16-50 sdm is broken again (the barrel is moving quite a lot which in some way is causing the lens to not focus properly), but I managed to salvage some Pentax reputation and some half decent photos mounting what I had left, the fa 35mm f2, not ideal for landscapes but better than nothing. At the end of the workshop compared to the 810's, and Sony a7's my photographic eye and technique was complimented quite highly but the general feedback was that I am limited by using the k5. For landscapes I need the resolution. It's a shame the lens broke I must say. Would be happy to post some photo of the workshop if anyone is interested

11-16-2015, 01:27 AM	#65
aacjr Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: San Francisco Bay Area Posts: 446	Yes I am interested in seeing some of your photos. I also shoot with the K-5.

11-16-2015, 02:50 AM	#66
redcat Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Paris Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,939	Originally posted by Mattox Would be happy to post some photo of the workshop if anyone is interested we are all interested and what did you learn after the workshop ? some technique ? some trick ? some pp tips ? Please share with us (if u don't mind)

11-16-2015, 03:26 AM - 1 Like	#67
Mattox Senior Member Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 292 Original Poster	I learnt a lot from the workshop really. I found that some basic fundamentals are essential in landscape photography (well all photography really). There at essential in camera settings that you need to apply to raw prior to shooting. These I should probably discuss in a separate topic. Within the group however there was another pentaxians who shot with a ks and a 15mm. Looking over our shots in raw up against the big bad FF of canon, Nikon and Sony, the difference in DR, resolution, noise and especially sharpness was significant. After this experience the move to FF is a must. If Pentax don't show something soon and something that is going to compare especially to the 810 of Nikon the move over to another brand is going to have to happen to me. The true landscape photographer need to keep his shots so precise all round and all the the Lightroom in the world won't change the final results if these are not respected.

11-16-2015, 06:40 AM	#68
redcat Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Paris Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,939	Originally posted by Mattox the difference in DR, resolution, noise and especially sharpness was significant I find the same when shooting wedding with another Canon 5D guy, I retouch all the photos from both cameras (mine is K3) and create the final album and I see the difference is significant ! the Canon FF has better DR, noise and color tone (ex : skin tone, blue, orange), I hate to admit that my newly bought K3 is not up to the Canon FF level, hope the new Pentax FF will be on shelf soon !

11-16-2015, 06:58 AM	#69
pathdoc Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2015 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,381	I suspect the colour tones are more a function of the RGB-space presets/algorithms inherent in the firmware (and those can be changed in menus, IIRC), but yeah, the DR/noise advantage seems to be inherent in the full-frame.

11-16-2015, 07:13 AM	#70
Rupert Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Texas Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 25,123	It's not just a people/camera thing.......Squirrels have this same debate. Some say bigger is better... Others say two smaller is better... I try to stay out of the argument when possible. Regards!

11-17-2015, 12:57 AM - 1 Like	#72
Mattox Senior Member Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 292 Original Poster	Here's the new post for those interested in landscape technique https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/38-photographic-technique/308083-camera-s...ml#post3432690

11-18-2015, 07:52 AM	#73
FantasticMrFox Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Munich Posts: 2,339	Originally posted by Mattox I learnt a lot from the workshop really. I found that some basic fundamentals are essential in landscape photography (well all photography really). There at essential in camera settings that you need to apply to raw prior to shooting. These I should probably discuss in a separate topic. Within the group however there was another pentaxians who shot with a ks and a 15mm. Looking over our shots in raw up against the big bad FF of canon, Nikon and Sony, the difference in DR, resolution, noise and especially sharpness was significant. After this experience the move to FF is a must. If Pentax don't show something soon and something that is going to compare especially to the 810 of Nikon the move over to another brand is going to have to happen to me. The true landscape photographer need to keep his shots so precise all round and all the the Lightroom in the world won't change the final results if these are not respected. I'd assume the problem is more in that you are comparing a five year old camera to more modern ones. There are many excellent K3 landscape images to be found online, and when paired with a good lens the AA filterless K3/K3 II deliver results so sharp any disadvantage against a D810 becomes a purely theoretical point - measurable in the lab but irrelevant in real life. For all practical purposes (showing on the web, printing biiig) the sharpness is excellent. Declaring the move to FF as a 'must' is simply an excuse, I'd assume that you would not experience a general palpable improvement in your photography when switching to a FF. "The true landscape photographer need to keep his shots so precise all round ...", that sounds like the workshop was more about turning participants into technical snobs than what actually matters in landscape photography: light, composition, and being in the right place at the right time. Originally posted by redcat I find the same when shooting wedding with another Canon 5D guy, I retouch all the photos from both cameras (mine is K3) and create the final album and I see the difference is significant ! the Canon FF has better DR, noise and color tone (ex : skin tone, blue, orange), I hate to admit that my newly bought K3 is not up to the Canon FF level, hope the new Pentax FF will be on shelf soon ! Wait a second there - I'm not surprised that the FF has better noise performance, colours etc., but DR? Based on reviews and the experiences of a lot of the online community Canon trails behind the competition in DR, even when comparing their FF offerings to others' APS-C offerings. The K3 has been tested to have a better dynamic range than the 5D Mk III, at least up to ISO800 or so

11-18-2015, 09:01 AM	#74
redcat Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Paris Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,939	Originally posted by FantasticMrFox Wait a second there - I'm not surprised that the FF has better noise performance, colours etc., but DR? Based on reviews and the experiences of a lot of the online community Canon trails behind the competition in DR, even when comparing their FF offerings to others' APS-C offerings. The K3 has been tested to have a better dynamic range than the 5D Mk III, at least up to ISO800 or so I don't know if I use the term DR correctly, which I means is I can drag the exposure slide to the right in LR more before the photos look "weird" (it's not blown out yet), it might be technically still in the dynamic range but the overall (color, brightness) are not the same anymore @_@

11-25-2015, 04:16 AM - 1 Like	#75
Mattox Senior Member Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 292 Original Poster	Anyway, here is the results of the k5 after the workshop. I have selected a few pics for you guys to look at. I was surprised to find that against the others and there bug new boys, my photos did shine. https://500px.com/photo/129415015 https://500px.com/photo/129475691 https://500px.com/photo/129645859 https://500px.com/photo/129766491