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06-25-2008, 12:30 PM   #1
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K20D / K10D shake reduction

Hi

I have been a Canon shooter for a few years (Just switched to a 40D from 30D). But some of the features in pentax cameras attract me, one of which is Shake Reduction.

With the type of shots I take these days, I routinely use my 30D/40D at 1000-1600 ISO. But even with at these high ISOs, at times I need a longer exposure than is possible to handhold. And secondly I would prefer if I could more often remain at ISO800 and not have to go higher. Thus the need for Image Stabilization / Shake Reduction.

On paper a K20D with a 50-135 2.8 lens seems to be the ideal solution for me. I get my desired focal length with a sharp 2.8 lens and shake reduction. There is really no equivalent setup for that in Canon.

So now the main question - how good is the in-camera Shake Reduction in Pentax bodies??. I have seen general comments about the in-camera shake reduction being inferior to lens-base image stabilization but havent seen any comprehensive comparison. I one played with a canon 17-85 IS lens and the IS on that seemed to work very well. If IS on a K20D is anything close to that then I would be very inclined towards buying it. Infact if I know that I could reliably/consistently get a 2 stop advantage then thats enough for me. The 17-85 could easily give atleast 3 stops in my admittedly limited experience.

So if anyone could shed some light on that through personal experience or point me to some article which talks about it, that would be great

06-25-2008, 12:32 PM   #2
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short answer, there's not much of a difference until you get to 600mm in glass. in lens stablization is superior at longer than 400mm.

you get about 3-4 stops with the k10d/k20d. i can do 1/10 with my 50mm np.
06-25-2008, 12:57 PM   #3
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If you are lucky enough to have a store with K10D/K20D in stock, ask to see live view on the demo unit, with a longer zoom.
Turn on liveview and leave SR off, shake the camera, like really shake it.
Then turn on SR and shake it the same.
Watch the difference on the screen.

I suggest this only since you can't see anything in the viewfinder due to in body IS, if you pick up a Canon IS lens and watch the IS engage, you know it works and how well it works.
Using live view to get the same warm fuzzies i think is appropriate.
Expect the same real world results as with newer generation Canon IS lenses, just expect it on any lens, new or old, expect it even on a $90 500mm f/8 mirror lens
06-25-2008, 01:07 PM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by wonderer Quote
Hi

I have been a Canon shooter for a few years (Just switched to a 40D from 30D). But some of the features in pentax cameras attract me, one of which is Shake Reduction.
<snip>
So if anyone could shed some light on that through personal experience or point me to some article which talks about it, that would be great
Perhaps this post might help?

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/post-your-photos/26923-african-wildlife-a...4x36-hung.html

Here are the last two images from the OP of the African Eland. All details you need are in the post... but it's several minutes after sunset, and taken at 1/125 sec. in windy conditions - taken with the FA* 300/2.8...

Uncropped image:

Crop:


As a reference I also shot with the 40D and the Sigma 500/4.5 - over 11,000 shots with that setup during the 36 days I was there.

Regards,
Marc


Last edited by Marc Langille; 06-25-2008 at 01:23 PM.
06-25-2008, 01:09 PM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by wonderer Quote

So now the main question - how good is the in-camera Shake Reduction in Pentax bodies??
this was done on my K100D, from what i understand the K20D has even better improved SR.

all handheld


1/20s F4.0 ISO1600






1/15s F5.6 ISO1600







1/13s F5.6 ISO800 (this was underexposed then pushed hence the grain)







1/8s F2.2 ISO800







1/5s
F5.6 ISO800 and this i can prove was handheld!! hahahah

06-25-2008, 01:12 PM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by wonderer Quote
Hi

I have been a Canon shooter for a few years (Just switched to a 40D from 30D). But some of the features in pentax cameras attract me, one of which is Shake Reduction.

With the type of shots I take these days, I routinely use my 30D/40D at 1000-1600 ISO. But even with at these high ISOs, at times I need a longer exposure than is possible to handhold. And secondly I would prefer if I could more often remain at ISO800 and not have to go higher. Thus the need for Image Stabilization / Shake Reduction.

On paper a K20D with a 50-135 2.8 lens seems to be the ideal solution for me. I get my desired focal length with a sharp 2.8 lens and shake reduction. There is really no equivalent setup for that in Canon.

So now the main question - how good is the in-camera Shake Reduction in Pentax bodies??. I have seen general comments about the in-camera shake reduction being inferior to lens-base image stabilization but havent seen any comprehensive comparison. I one played with a canon 17-85 IS lens and the IS on that seemed to work very well. If IS on a K20D is anything close to that then I would be very inclined towards buying it. Infact if I know that I could reliably/consistently get a 2 stop advantage then thats enough for me. The 17-85 could easily give atleast 3 stops in my admittedly limited experience.

So if anyone could shed some light on that through personal experience or point me to some article which talks about it, that would be great
just a quick example of 2 shots, one at 500mm with flash to freeze the shot and one at 300mm and 1/30 sec using shake reduction. what you see in the blue jay is achievable. not perfect but not bad
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/106132-post4.html
06-25-2008, 01:17 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by attack11 Quote
short answer, there's not much of a difference until you get to 600mm in glass. in lens stablization is superior at longer than 400mm.

you get about 3-4 stops with the k10d/k20d. i can do 1/10 with my 50mm np.
wow. 3-4 stops is great. But I am curious then that why do most camera reviews mention much more passimistic numbers? I havent seen the latest K20D review at dpreview, but as on example their review of sony alpha 350 suggests an advantage of only 1.3 to 1.6 stops. Similarly the CNET review of K20D suggests just over one stop of advantage???
06-25-2008, 01:19 PM   #8
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Check out the shake reduction test for the K20D in DPReview as the bottom of:

Pentax K20D Review: 16. Features:

06-25-2008, 01:20 PM   #9
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wow, in the time that I wrote the reply to teh first post I get so many more replies thanks guys for all the responses and the actual real world sample photographs. I think I am becoming a believer
06-25-2008, 01:22 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by wonderer Quote
wow, in the time that I wrote the reply to teh first post I get so many more replies thanks guys for all the responses and the actual real world sample photographs. I think I am becoming a believer
keep in mind that model cooporation is a must as well

if you're going to be shooting people, SR does not help if they are running around

if you can force your subjects to freeze you can really get some low shutter pictures going (see my 1/5s shot)
06-25-2008, 01:25 PM   #11
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The Pentax sensor-based system has tested better than the lens-based systems of other manufacturers. I did read someone just make reference to the fact that at 600mm and up lens-based IS is better however, I have not seen nor read of that before. Either way, it is certainly just as good as lens-based IS systems.
06-25-2008, 01:25 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by wonderer Quote
wow. 3-4 stops is great. But I am curious then that why do most camera reviews mention much more passimistic numbers? I havent seen the latest K20D review at dpreview, but as on example their review of sony alpha 350 suggests an advantage of only 1.3 to 1.6 stops. Similarly the CNET review of K20D suggests just over one stop of advantage???
short answer is the test. they're all different tests under different light situations and sometimes with different lenses. i approximated on purpose. with my primes and my da* glass i get phenomenal results.

135mm @ 1/25
50mm @ 1/10
hand held 5 exposures at 10mm combined to hdr

i routinely shoot with my fisheye for up to 5sec exposures hand held and have no prob with 1sec and my 16-50 @ 16mm.
06-25-2008, 01:32 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by wonderer Quote
wow. 3-4 stops is great. But I am curious then that why do most camera reviews mention much more passimistic numbers? I havent seen the latest K20D review at dpreview, but as on example their review of sony alpha 350 suggests an advantage of only 1.3 to 1.6 stops. Similarly the CNET review of K20D suggests just over one stop of advantage???
Simple: CNET is not proficient in reviewing cameras and I doubt their 'expert' even knows what a 'stop' is.. lol Furthermore, if you do decide to venture to the darkside that is known as Pentax, you'll quickly see how reviewers of Pentax gear will go so far as to not test or simply make up anti-Pentax-crap because of their loyalties to other manufacturers (who line their pockets with cash from ad revenue)... The DPReview review on the K20D seems uncharacteristically unbiased and fair to Pentax this time around. I suggest you read before they amend it or something.. haha
06-25-2008, 01:34 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by 35mmfilm_user Quote
Perhaps this post might help?

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/post-your-photos/26923-african-wildlife-a...4x36-hung.html

Here are the last two images from the OP of the African Eland. All details you need are in the post... but it's several minutes after sunset, and taken at 1/125 sec. in windy conditions - taken with the FA* 300/2.8...

Uncropped image:

Crop:


As a reference I also shot with the 40D and the Sigma 500/4.5 - over 11,000 shots with that setup during the 36 days I was there.

Regards,
Marc
Great Shots!! Thanks for your input
06-25-2008, 01:36 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gooshin Quote
keep in mind that model cooporation is a must as well

if you're going to be shooting people, SR does not help if they are running around

Sure I realise that part. And thanks for you sample images as well. These all look very nice and crisp.
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