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11-24-2015, 02:16 AM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wild Mark Quote
Obviously the newer the model the better the features. But, for a basic camera with good performance the older models are still relevant.

I have tried the ist L, K100, K200, K10, K20, K7, K5, K5iis, K3 - all decent cameras within their limitations. Really basic notes are as follows (check out the review database):

istD L = dedicated for macro work as it is one of two digital cameras produced by Pentax that can use TTL flash (older flashes). There is a plethora of old useful flashes out there that mate well with this camera for macro. Downside is 6MP and AA batteries.

K100 = basic walk around. not feature rich. Probably not a great body to use. ISO performance poor.

K200 = as above with slightly better features. ISO performance poor.

K10D = very good step up to above cameras. Has poor manual lens compatibility (light metering). Good walk around with useful features. Noise a problem at higher ISO (>400). Cult camera

K20D = step up from K10D with different sensor. ISO performance not the best. Cult following is less so for this reason.

K7 = step towards K5 with improvements over the K20D. 14 MP camera - so pretty good performance. AF and noise not the best.

K5 = flagship camera for a number of years. Feature rich and easy to use. Has ISO80 - very nice. Autofocus not really the best especially for fast (f2.8 or less lenses). Excellent camera to start with if not using fast lenses.

K5iis = flagship camera with modification. Removed AA filter to help make sharper images. EXCELLENT camera.

K3 = recent flagship camera. Highest MP rating. EXCELLENT camera.

My recommendation is a K5 body (second hand) as it represent excellent value for money. But if you can get a K5iis for a similar price I would definitely go for that camera.

Have fun choosing.
For Mr. Wild Mark, I would like to ask for clarification as to what is meant by: Not a good body to use in regards to the Pentax K100D Super Camera? Also, what is meant by: Poor ISO performance? I only ask in case there may be some issues I need to be prepared for. I have not experienced any of the issues you have mentioned. Thanks in advance in for your assistance.

Regards,

Tonytee

11-24-2015, 05:32 AM - 1 Like   #47
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I own a k100d and the super that followed it. The ISO performance is weaker than a cmos based camera. The ccd based sensor struggles at anything over about 400 ISO. 800 is usable but weaker than current cameras. The k50 by comparison can shoot at 3200 with good results.

In practical terms this means you are at a 2-3 stop penalty. Which means using a faster lens or shooting with flash if the lighting is poor. In addition, features like LiveView rely on CMOS sensors.
11-24-2015, 05:52 AM   #48
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2-3 stops is a pretty fair assessment from the k100d to the newer 16mp bodies, maybe even generous towards the k100d. AF is also weak, viewfinders have improved, so have the rear lcd's, overall operation speed etc..

As much as I do love my k100d, the (relatively) low price of current or nearly current bodies make it less and less attractive as a camera to start out with. I have seen them used on ebay for as low as $80 Canadian (body only), so if you're really, really pinched for cash and able to work within it's limitations, it can be a fine choice. A key here is when starting out it can be hard to know how it's limitations will affect you, if at all. If you can hold out and save up a little bit more for one of those blow-out deals on newer models that go by or even a used k30/50, it may be better value in the long run and possibly less frustrating for someone new to photography.
11-24-2015, 02:51 PM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by Edgar_in_Indy Quote
This is good advise. I have fond memories of using some early DSLR's, but when I have gotten a chance to try them again in recent years, they are unbearable to use after getting used to the newer ones. Used is great, but don't too far back in generations.
I think I'd find the same if I went back to a K100DS. The K-30, let alone the K-3, has many features that I now find indispensible. The ISO would also be a major limitation. And 6mp isn't enough for wildlife shots that need a lot of cropping.

The only form of RAW images in the K100DS was PEF. I found the processing software that came with the camera unusable. Even the version of Silkypix that came with the K-30 won't touch PEF images from the K100DS, let alone DxO Optics Pro. And of course no RAW+jpg option. I shot almost entirely in jpg.

Edit: But see post #96 below where @Just1MoreDave points out that Pentax Digital Camera Utility versions 4 and 5 will process PEF files from the K100D or *ist.

It is interesting to consider how far DSLR tech has come since 2006. Looking back is like going back to a computer running Windows 3.1, with an Iomega Zip drive with a 100Mb capacity (remember them?) that you paid $600 for, and if you were lucky a 14.4kbps dial up modem that also cost a bundle. OK, maybe this is an exaggeration (should I say it's like comparing a Nokia bar phone to a smartphone?), but you get my point.

---------- Post added 11-25-15 at 08:55 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Edgar_in_Indy Quote
the worst-named camera EVER
Was in meant to be pronounced "first"? "Star-ist"? Or Star-I-S-T?

At least Pentax has avoided the pitfall of K-9. Who wants a dog of a camera?


Last edited by Des; 11-29-2015 at 06:53 PM.
11-24-2015, 02:56 PM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
I own a k100d and the super that followed it. The ISO performance is weaker than a cmos based camera. The ccd based sensor struggles at anything over about 400 ISO. 800 is usable but weaker than current cameras. The k50 by comparison can shoot at 3200 with good results.

In practical terms this means you are at a 2-3 stop penalty. Which means using a faster lens or shooting with flash if the lighting is poor. In addition, features like LiveView rely on CMOS sensors.
While the ISO comment is true, note that even the *istD had better 1600ISO performance than film. Just to put it into context. We are all spoiled today with cameras like the K5 and newer.
11-24-2015, 03:02 PM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by BrianR Quote
2-3 stops is a pretty fair assessment from the k100d to the newer 16mp bodies, maybe even generous towards the k100d. AF is also weak, viewfinders have improved, so have the rear lcd's, overall operation speed etc..

As much as I do love my k100d, the (relatively) low price of current or nearly current bodies make it less and less attractive as a camera to start out with. I have seen them used on ebay for as low as $80 Canadian (body only), so if you're really, really pinched for cash and able to work within it's limitations, it can be a fine choice. A key here is when starting out it can be hard to know how it's limitations will affect you, if at all. If you can hold out and save up a little bit more for one of those blow-out deals on newer models that go by or even a used k30/50, it may be better value in the long run and possibly less frustrating for someone new to photography.
i agree with this fully. something like a used k50 at say 200$ may seem like a lot to invest, but it will probably be an easier transition into dslr's and you are far less likely to outgrow it nearly as fast. the tech and features are pretty current aside from flu card compatibility. from what I've heard the k50 more than holds its own against something like the ks-2. people who bought 10d's 100d's ist's and such most likely were transferring from film so their knowledge of how an slr would translate into a dslr or they used it when it was relevant so their experience has not made it difficult to still make useable images from them. the learning curve would probably be a lot steeper to produce images you would feel are satisfactory or you may feel hindered by the cameras ability. so that investment you made into the initial not only frustrated you, but it also made you invest into one camera then made you have to invest into another looking for something that won't hinder you. the difference in investment is not that much that you couldn't justify it. not to mention the fact that the other cameras, while I'm sure they were reliably built, they are like 10 years old. the k100d was released in 2006. the k50 was released in 2013. think about how much computer technology has changed since 2006. iMacs introduced core duo processors in their entire lineup. today they all have quad core. when the 100d came out the first iPhone wasn't even released yet.
11-24-2015, 04:49 PM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by Des Quote
It is interesting to consider how far DSLR tech has come since 2006. Looking back is like going back to a computer running Windows 3.1, with an Iomega Zip drive with a 100Mb capacity (remember them?) that you paid $600 for, and if you were lucky a 14.4kbps dial up modem that also cost a bundle.
Thanks for the trip down memory lane! I came across an old SCSI cable in my parts bin the other day, and it evoked a similar nostalgia.

QuoteOriginally posted by Des Quote
Was in meant to be pronounced "first"? "Star-ist"? Or Star-I-S-T?
Good question. I'm not even sure if it's "star" or "asterisk". My eyes start to cross whenever I try to figure out how to say the name, so if you ever find the answer, let me know!
11-24-2015, 04:58 PM - 1 Like   #53
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I think one of the things missed by people in this thread is that a budget number was set. The flexibility of spending other people's money is easy. It is too easy to ignore practical realities. If $100 is the max available to spend - even if $200 is vastly superior it may be completely out of reach for quite some time. I have friends who struggle to make rent and put food on the table - I'm fortunate not to face this situation myself.

In any case. I fully agree that if you can afford a newer camera buy one. But don't fail to buy a camera if you really want one and all you can afford is the 6mp CCD generation. These cameras may not be modern but we loved them when they were new and they can still perform just as well now as they did then.

11-24-2015, 05:06 PM   #54
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Somebody has a K-x for sale in the Marketplace for $125. It's been there for a week, so maybe he'd take $100, which would still be a fair price.

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/24-photographic-equipment-sale/308070-sale-kx-k-x.html

The K-x has a great sensor, live view, and even does HD video.
11-28-2015, 05:34 AM   #55
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I would avoid anything older than K5, K30, K50. If you time you time you buy right you can likely get even a K50 for very cheap price when sales come up. In the meatime really you can share or use the point and shoot. We speak fo maybe a few months, not 10 years.

You have to be aware that while a DSLR allow for creativity when playing with apperture and primes, a modern compact camera can very well provide better result in term of sharpness, rendering, even high iso than a very old DSLR. This what my father discovered with the istDL vs a Fuji X10. The Fuji manage to get better results in many occasion.

I really advise to wait a bit, share together what you currently have and wait until you can buy something that's actually worth the money. You can likely get a nice K30 or K5 + kit lens for under $300 if you look for it. Hey at the right time you may even manage to get a deal new for $400 with a 18-135 and resell the lense for 200-250$.

Currently on market place there K5 or K50 in the 200-250$ range, you may even be able to negotiate a bit.
11-28-2015, 05:47 AM - 3 Likes   #56
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I think too much is being put on performance here. A budget is a budget. Some just want to go out and take photos. I routinely shot with my K10D at ISO 800 and even ISO 1000. No the photos were not going to win awards or be on the cover of a magazine. But I was able to go out shoot, take some photos, learn, and have fun. I think that is what is most important.
K10D ISO 800 old manual focus Takumar lens.

11-28-2015, 05:56 AM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by Scorpio71GR Quote
I think too much is being put on performance here. A budget is a budget. Some just want to go out and take photos. I routinely shot with my K10D at ISO 800 and even ISO 1000. No the photos were not going to win awards or be on the cover of a magazine. But I was able to go out shoot, take some photos, learn, and have fun. I think that is what is most important.
K10D ISO 800 old manual focus Takumar lens.

yeah but this isn't going to look better than say a PS with a 10X zoom here. Not to say this is anything bad that you didn't get a more expensive lens or body. Just you can apply your reasonning to them !

They already have a DSLR, they have already a PS. They can share and exchange, take shoot, make progress and have fun. But if they buy more, in particular if they are on a budget it should be noticably better.

Last edited by Nicolas06; 11-28-2015 at 06:07 AM.
11-28-2015, 07:54 AM   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by Des Quote

At least Pentax has avoided the pitfall of K-9. Who wants a dog of a camera?
I! My phone: Doogee DG700 Android 5.0 Quad Core 1GB 8GB Smartphone

My solution to original problem would be buying as close as possible to K-50 within budget. Reason: That way you can support each other and technology is about same level so comparing results are possible. Also lenses fit to each system.

I have "friend bag" which has K100, Sigma 70-200 and Pentax 18-55. It is mostly used by friends kids who want to take photos. When I'm shooting with K-3, I still can show how to operate the K100 with K-3 even there is 10 years of age difference.
11-28-2015, 08:13 AM   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by anemone Quote
What's up with that link that showed up in your post???
11-28-2015, 08:47 AM   #60
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I have sticker behind it "Such phone. Much calls. Wow." So it is same way dog phone as K-9 would be dog camera.
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