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12-16-2015, 09:48 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by donpjt Quote
Here is a comparison of the same night scene shot with both the K-3 and K-5 with similar ISO ... K-3 ISO 6400 would give similar performance as a K-5 ISO 400 when the images are resized to 16 MP. See the comparison for yourself. All are 100% crops from the raw images. ... [lots of snipping for brevity]
Your K-5 seems exceptionally noisy. I didn't get a K-3 because other sample images showed near-identical low light noise as the K-5. The K-3 shows more noise per pixel but scaling to K-5 pixel counts gives a virtually identical noise level.

12-16-2015, 09:55 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by DeadJohn Quote
Your K-5 seems exceptionally noisy. I didn't get a K-3 because other sample images showed near-identical low light noise as the K-5. The K-3 shows more noise per pixel but scaling to K-5 pixel counts gives a virtually identical noise level.
Based on what you said, I just researched some more and reviewed my images again, I think its the shutter speed which made the difference as the exposure time on the K-3 was almost twice as the K-5, so I've updated my comments and I might have to redo the test again.. , It maybe as you said, they have similar performance.. well, so in the end I ended up learning more that the OP..

Maybe I should delete my earlier post, since its misleading..
12-16-2015, 10:11 AM   #18
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@donpjt Interesting observations with the night images.

I think that you might have a bum sensor on your K-5, since those images look horrifically bad compared to the results I've gotten with my own K-5, which are across the board better than those of my K-3 at 100%, which produces similar results to your K-3.

Don't get me wrong, I love the K-3 and prefer it enough for other reasons (AF, sharpness) that I actually gave away my K-5 to my brother, and inerpolating pixels does alleviate the difference somewhat, but those pics you are showing look like something that came out of my 4/3 sensor 8 years ago. The K-5 has always proven to me to be a low light champ, and was widely regarded as such for much of its life.

Since I don't have the K-5 anymore, these aren't exactly the same scene, but they are similarly colored objects in similar condittions on both cameras at ISO3200. These are 100%, 1:1 crops, both DNG, both pegged to 0 on the chroma and luma noise sliders in LR.


K-5


K-3


The chroma noise between the two is about the same, but that is easy to clean up without losing detail in postprocessing. The luma noise, which is the harder of the two to clean up, is much more pronounced on the sample from the K-3, which gives it more of a "salt and pepper" appearance. The K-5 sensor has a wider dynamic range in laboratory testing, and this is how it comes out in the real world. It's also why it's much easier to bump up the exposure in post with K-5 images than it is for K-3 ones.
12-16-2015, 12:27 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by dcshooter Quote
Since I don't have the K-5 anymore, these aren't exactly the same scene, but they are similarly colored objects in similar condittions on both cameras at ISO3200. These are 100%, 1:1 crops ... The luma noise, which is the harder of the two to clean up, is much more pronounced on the sample from the K-3, which gives it more of a "salt and pepper" appearance....
The luma noise will be less noticeable if you downsample the original K-3 24mp image to 16mp (equal to K-5 resolution) before looking at the 1:1 zoom.

12-16-2015, 01:16 PM   #20
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Which is what the "interpolating pixels" I mentioned is. Even after interpolating, in my experience the K-3 still lags a bit in my experience. And if you need to push the exposure at all in post, the luma noise in the K-3 gets much worse, much more quickly.

Like I said, it's no showstopper for me, but the results above just don't jibe at all with what I've experienced.

QuoteOriginally posted by DeadJohn Quote
The luma noise will be less noticeable if you downsample the original K-3 24mp image to 16mp (equal to K-5 resolution) before looking at the 1:1 zoom.
12-16-2015, 05:54 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ron_Man Quote
I have and love my K-5 but have upgraded to the K-3 for about 8 months now and the "upgrades" are considerable. If your main concern is night photography, I do believe it is about the same performance wise although there are times I feel like high ISO on my K-3 tends to output a little more grain. Just my opinion.

Otherwise, everything about the K-3 is a much needed upgrade in performance all across and you'll see why it was TIPA Best Expert DSLR of the Year in 2014 for a reason.

If you do upgrade to the K-3 you'll most likely find less usage for the K-5 IMO.
If I buy the K3 I will probably sell my K5.

---------- Post added 12-17-15 at 12:57 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by DanGleabols Quote
It has an option for Pixel mapping, which I think is what you're on about!!!
Yes I saw that. Thanks.
12-16-2015, 10:07 PM - 1 Like   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Imp Quote
I've got a 2 year old K-30... I've been thinking to upgrade glass rather than the camera, and decided if i'm to upgrade to the k-3 level, i'd wait until it comes out with a flip screen... if it ever does.
I have decided the same thing I won't upgrade until it has a tilt or articulating screen. I hope we don't both grow old waiting for the screen but since my knees which I have spoken of many times recently tell me I must wait ,growing old waiting may just happen but at my age I don't have that long to wait!
12-16-2015, 11:03 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by MikeD Quote
I have decided the same thing I won't upgrade until it has a tilt or articulating screen. I hope we don't both grow old waiting for the screen but since my knees which I have spoken of many times recently tell me I must wait ,growing old waiting may just happen but at my age I don't have that long to wait!
Well the K-S2 has one as does the new full frame. I think it would be a little strange if the K-3 II successor didn't have one.

12-17-2015, 01:34 AM   #24
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A couple of other comments regarding the k-3 and low light:

The higher resolution means if you scrutinise the images at 100% you will be able detect lower amounts of camera shake and more lens aberrations (lowlight usually means slow shutter speeds and large apertures). Again, scaling down to 16mp should reduce these to what you'd expect to see on the k-5.

The k3 is a better low light camera in other areas (other than noise); the white balance is much better and the autofocus is faster and rated to lower light levels. I believe it also has a better live view implementation which you may find useful.
12-17-2015, 06:47 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by MikeD Quote
I have decided the same thing I won't upgrade until it has a tilt or articulating screen. I hope we don't both grow old waiting for the screen but since my knees which I have spoken of many times recently tell me I must wait ,growing old waiting may just happen but at my age I don't have that long to wait!
I actually decided to wait to upgrade to the k-3 line after the successor to the first k-3 with a flippy screen has been released - so the price is lower!
12-17-2015, 08:24 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by Imp Quote
I actually decided to wait to upgrade to the k-3 line after the successor to the first k-3 with a flippy screen has been released - so the price is lower!



Why wait, you can get a point-and-shoot with a flip-screen. I own a K-5IIs and have not been motivated to upgrade to the K-3, until now that the price has gone down !


Those added features of the K-3 are really hard to beat. Dual card slots, more AF focusing points, higher resolution, faster AF, better white balance, better live-view and movie mode and last but not least, the AA simulator. Plus it's one of the best looking cameras on the market. These are not exactly "must-have" things that are going to improve your photography 100%, nevertheless they are nice to have especially for the price. I figure I can use the K5II as a back-up, once I get the K3, but right now I'm still focusing on lenses...

Last edited by hjoseph7; 12-17-2015 at 08:31 AM.
12-17-2015, 09:35 AM   #27
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The k5 at iso 80 has a higher dynamic range. This means the k5 has less base noise at a pixel level. I find with the k3 you lose about 1/3 stop dynamic range in most situations. Also the k5 noise was more film like (i think because the aa filter the noise in the k5) But other things on the k3 is much better. Tracking af, af precision, ttl flash, live view focusing.
12-18-2015, 08:14 PM   #28
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Before I sell my K5, and take the plung on the K3, I was just wondering if Pentax got there act together with all the quality sues they had with the first K5? I never had issues, but I remember hear many people that did! Also, trying to decide between the K3, and K3 series 2. Just worried if the fact that the series 2 has no flash, that may hurt the resale value.

Last edited by Tony3d; 12-18-2015 at 08:24 PM.
12-19-2015, 12:34 AM   #29
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Well, I guess their still having issues. Thought this was solved. May have to do more research.

The Pentax K3 and the Crazy-Acting Mirror Sickness by Amy Medina – STEVE HUFF PHOTOS
12-19-2015, 04:03 AM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tony3d Quote
Well, I guess their still having issues. Thought this was solved. May have to do more research.

The Pentax K3 and the Crazy-Acting Mirror Sickness by Amy Medina STEVE HUFF PHOTOS
That's a really old article. DRabbit sold her Pentax gear over a year ago because of issues that she had when doing interval shooting (she was/is a member here). That said, most people have had no trouble with mirror flap and it is a quick fix to send it in for repair if by some chance you would have it. I only experienced it once, soon after I purchased my K3 a couple of years ago, when I put an off brand battery that was under charged in my K3. No problems since that point.

I don't if the K3 is the camera for you, but I wouldn't let this report scare you away from it.
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