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01-13-2016, 08:26 PM   #1
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k30 raws vs k5iis raws

I had the k30 and I liked the images. The camera developed a fault so i upgraded to the K5iis which i have been using for a few years. When I first imported the K5iis raws into lightroom I noticed that the images did not have as much pop compared to k30 raws imported at the same settings. Has anybody else noticed this? Could anyone explain why this could be because shouldn't the raw output from both cameras be almost identical. Also what adjustments can I make to the k5iis images to get similar results?

01-13-2016, 08:31 PM   #2
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Were you using an import preset? I believe the import presets can be set to be specific to cameras. That means it is possible your k-30 was getting some PP on import but the k-5iis is not. Just something to check.
01-13-2016, 08:42 PM   #3
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What jatrax said. LR gives you all the tools you need to increase contrast, saturation, etc.
01-14-2016, 01:20 AM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Were you using an import preset? I believe the import presets can be set to be specific to cameras. That means it is possible your k-30 was getting some PP on import but the k-5iis is not. Just something to check.
No presets on import. Raws from both cameras were imported into lightroom as dng with the same basic lightroom settings. I would have thought the images would look the same except that the images would be slightly sharper with the k5iis but surprisingly the k30 images look better as if they have more micro contrast or something. I dunno. Aren't the sensors the same except that the k30 has an thing anti alias filter and slightly less dynamic range.

01-14-2016, 01:35 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by everydaylife Quote
No presets on import. Raws from both cameras were imported into lightroom as dng with the same basic lightroom settings. I would have thought the images would look the same except that the images would be slightly sharper with the k5iis but surprisingly the k30 images look better as if they have more micro contrast or something. I dunno. Aren't the sensors the same except that the k30 has an thing anti alias filter and slightly less dynamic range.
It depends how you set up Lightroom. If you look at how the various sliders such as contrast, shadows, highlights etc...were set when you downloaded K30, that was effectively your preset which worked for you. You can vary the import presets til the result works OK for you and save it as a default from thereon.

See for example, How to Create a "Standard Import" Preset in Lightroom 4 - Digital Photography School how this would operate.
01-14-2016, 01:56 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnhilvert Quote
It depends how you set up Lightroom. If you look at how the various sliders such as contrast, shadows, highlights etc...were set when you downloaded K30, that was effectively your preset which worked for you. You can vary the import presets til the result works OK for you and save it as a default from thereon.

See for example, How to Create a "Standard Import" Preset in Lightroom 4 - Digital Photography School how this would operate.
I have set Lightroom at basic develop module setting. All the sliders are set at 0 except the sharpening settings which are at the basic 25,1,25 settings.No presets. The import settings are the same for k30 and k5iis raw files. Today I opened raw files from both cameras and the k30 files look better.
01-14-2016, 02:05 AM   #7
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The difference may be in the input color profiles. I don't use Lightroom, so I don't know which ones is used and how they are selected, but in general the input/camera color profile is used to map the sensor's color values into the working color space of Lightroom. The DNGs contain an embedded camera profile, but some software can use an own one. The profile impacts both color tones and contrast.

Likely the profiles of the K5iis are targeting at a more neutral representation for best post-processing capabilities, while the K30 profiles may be tweaked for higher default contrast.
01-14-2016, 02:27 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by JensE Quote
The difference may be in the input color profiles. I don't use Lightroom, so I don't know which ones is used and how they are selected, but in general the input/camera color profile is used to map the sensor's color values into the working color space of Lightroom. The DNGs contain an embedded camera profile, but some software can use an own one. The profile impacts both color tones and contrast.

Likely the profiles of the K5iis are targeting at a more neutral representation for best post-processing capabilities, while the K30 profiles may be tweaked for higher default contrast.
What you say seems to make sense. The import settings are exactly the same for both then it must be something embedded in the K30 dng.

01-14-2016, 03:54 AM   #9
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I think a lot has to do with the camera profiles. I tend to use Huelight's color profiles and I think they are significantly better for the cameras I own (K5 II, K3) than the Lightroom defaults. Huelight Pentax Camera Profiles
01-14-2016, 05:09 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I think a lot has to do with the camera profiles. I tend to use Huelight's color profiles and I think they are significantly better for the cameras I own (K5 II, K3) than the Lightroom defaults. Huelight Pentax Camera Profiles
Thanks for these. I will give them a try and see how they look.
01-14-2016, 05:29 AM   #11
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I'm just tossing an uninformed possibility out there, in case it applies. Could you have had one camera set for sRGB and the other camera set for AdobeRGB?
01-14-2016, 06:14 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by sholtzma Quote
I'm just tossing an uninformed possibility out there, in case it applies. Could you have had one camera set for sRGB and the other camera set for AdobeRGB?
Doesn't matter to raw files.
01-14-2016, 06:42 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by sholtzma Quote
I'm just tossing an uninformed possibility out there, in case it applies. Could you have had one camera set for sRGB and the other camera set for AdobeRGB?
The issue is a Lightroom issue. When you open a RAW file in Lightroom, a color profile is applied to the file, along with certain "neutral" settings (I think there is actually a little bit of noise reduction applied on opening the file as well). There are only a couple of standard color profiles available in Lightroom for each Pentax camera and my experience is that they are not very good -- tend to look dull and have some odd color shifts at times. It is possible that the K30 color profile that Adobe developed is a little better out of the box than the K5 and K3 profiles -- I just haven't really used a K30 enough to know.
01-14-2016, 08:36 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by Oldbayrunner Quote
Doesn't matter to raw files.
Doesn't matter to the data, but it does matter if the software decides to read it differently. Conversion from one colour space to another can cause some shifts. Maybe a conversion happens without the knowledge of the user for one of the cameras? Not super likely, but it could be a factor

Next are camera profiles. These things can change how the photos are rendered and are camera-specific (or at least, should be).
One other thing could be that the software is not showing the higher bit rate of the K-5IIs correctly? So maybe it would be better to compare exported 8-bit sRGB jpeg files, rather than the image that lightroom shows of the raw with its transformations.

Finally, double-check everything. Use the same lens on both cameras, focused on same distance, same 2 sec timer, same ISO (watch out for Highlight correction! should be disabled on both), SR off, lens corrections off, same jpeg mode, same colour space, same file format (dng), same import settings and same camera profiles. Because you are right, OP. The K-5IIs should have slightly sharper photos and slightly better DR. Interesting that this is not apparent in the photos. I think there are a couple forum users that have both of these cameras on hand, maybe they can do a test and chime in

Ultimately, there is a possibility that the K-30 raw files are simply not as raw as the K-5IIs. We know that some brands, or some camera models, actually apply some NR and sharpening to their "raw" files. This means you can never get truly raw files from them. Anyway, it is possible that the K-5IIs does not have this, and gives the photographer the true raw; but the K-30, perhaps designed for less-stringent photographers, has something done to the raw files to make them look prettier.
01-14-2016, 09:49 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
K30 color profile that Adobe developed is a little better out of the box than the K5 and K3 profiles -- I just haven't really used a K30 enough to know.
Camera profile is a good place to look if there are no presets involved.

You have not a lot of choices for Pentax cameras, usually the 'embedded' one and the 'Adobe Standard' one. Switch these and see if you get an improvement. If not you can either locate a third party one as suggested above or build your own.
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