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01-17-2016, 10:01 AM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenspo Quote
I think its a bigger chance that Pentax are around then Nikon in 10 years..as things are at the moment. Thing can change fast, so nothing is certain.
Interesting...

01-17-2016, 10:06 AM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
I'd say that if your competitors sell 10 times more units of a similar product/target market, with the same price range, you never get out of that downward spiral, unless you get out of competition by not having the same type of product for the same type of end customer (as Sony did with the A7 series having 30% market share for the mirroless products).
The only way to lay that off is to have a more diversified product line...which Pentax/Ricoh has. I don't mean cameras, I mean binoculars, medical equipment, telescope optics, etc... Pentax used to be in a downward spiral, but I think that since they were purchased by Ricoh, pretty much everything has been on an upward spiral.
01-17-2016, 10:07 AM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by bertwert Quote
Interesting...
There is no secret, that Nikon is the company that bleeds the most at the moment. I knew it was bad, but was surprised over how bad it really is, after i got some inside info from a Nikon employee i know. A lot of staff has been laid off, sales are dropping + + Pentax are slowly growing under Ricoh. But as in any business, this can change later on. Thats why nothing is certain.
01-17-2016, 10:08 AM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenspo Quote
Thats why nothing is certain.
Including when the FF will come

01-17-2016, 10:15 AM   #50
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Its coming..thats the important thing!
01-17-2016, 11:25 AM   #51
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I was in Camera World, Downtown PDX just last October and saw several Pentax Cameras on display and unless my memory is faulty (a distinct possibility) a red neon "Pentax" sign in one of the windows. I will say this though, the store is a shell of what it was 15 years ago. I was disappointed in what I found when I went in there; it just seemed barren where before it was buzzing with activity and stocked to the ceiling with product of all kinds.
01-17-2016, 11:26 AM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenspo Quote
There is no secret, that Nikon is the company that bleeds the most at the moment. I knew it was bad, but was surprised over how bad it really is, after i got some inside info from a Nikon employee i know. A lot of staff has been laid off, sales are dropping + + Pentax are slowly growing under Ricoh. But as in any business, this can change later on. Thats why nothing is certain.
When market shrinks due to maturity, all camera manufacturers have to reduce their spending budgets to align with sales budgets, including laying off staff if the levers of cost reductions other then manpower are not enough. Nikon and Canon can massively layoff while still having enough momentum and staff to continue product R&D, sales and marketing activities. Bare in mind that below a certain size, a company can't design, make and commercialize a full product line anymore. The merger of Pentax cameras with Ricoh cameras and restructuring certainly gave a bit of oxygen to keep alive for a few years, but they have put all of their limited resources to design one new camera that was postponed (shortage of resources) and they outsourced some of their lens design to third party. So, that indicates that Ricoh-Pentax camera are already reduced to the bones, well, if they have to downsize, that would means death. Before Nikon would run out of business, they'd first downsize to the size of Pentax and then die, but, Pentax would die way before them. There's one exception, that is if the camera market would massively go mirroless and Canikon would fail to adapt (that can happen), but then Sony would be the winning and Pentax would still fall way behind Canikon for this technology because Canon already have develop builtin PDAF on sensor (could be used for mirrorless), while Pentax does not have any of that. Let's be clear, a company does not file for bankruptcy due to financial losses, it usually file for bankruptcy due to sustained periods of negative cash flows and cash failure. Pentax is currently under the cash perfusion of mother Ricoh, which secure Pentax operations with a reserve of cash, otherwise it would not be possible to finance a full frame development for 18 months with the sales of the K-3II.

Last edited by biz-engineer; 01-17-2016 at 11:32 AM.
01-17-2016, 12:02 PM - 1 Like   #53
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People keep mentioning the medical line up of Pentax, but as far as I know, that is completely separate from Pentax, the digital photography brand and is still owned by Hoya.

Ricoh definitely is a more diversified company than companies like Nikon and Olympus. Certainly Ricoh won't go away and as long as they are committed to investing in digital photography, I think Pentax is on solid footing. Ricoh really has a good philosophy, as far as I can tell -- slowly grow market share by making solid, well featured gear for slightly less than the competition. Advertising or not, I think we will see Pentax gain market share over time.

As to biz-engineer's gloom and doom, I think it is completely unwarranted. Nikon is in a lot more dangerous place than Ricoh, since the majority of their profits come from digital photography. A significant market contraction is less likely to hurt Pentax than Nikon, as Nikon has had a lot of trouble in the past with over producing cameras and having to sell gear at fire sale prices.

As to the rate of new products, that to me is fairly unimportant. Nikon releases new products all of the time, but you can hardly tell the difference between a camera like the D5200 and the D5300. They end up selling against themselves and the result is downward pressure on new camera prices. In general, Pentax releases cameras when there are new features or sensors available and there are fewer cameras from previous generations sitting on shelves unsold.

Anyway, a long statement to say that I do think Pentax has a solid future. I am no fortune teller, but they feel like a solid option and are unlikely to vanish any time soon.

01-17-2016, 12:37 PM   #54
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Some how people think that there is a causale thing between Nikon in trouble and Pentax in trouble. There isn't. Both can go out of business or survive both or just one, wich ever. The surviver has to get it's cashflow in order and products attractive to customers. A company like Nikon depends on the stock market while Pentax has to depend on Ricoh if there would be any trouble in future.

All camera makers have these following camera's that are essentially the same. Wheater it is the Canon 600-series with the same 18mp sensor or Sony's SLT's. Pentax did that with K-30/K-50, WG-series and the GR - GR2. Not a big problem, but your market is smaller since upgrading is not so prominent from the same model. You sell a new camera to someone new, or to someone with a much older model that upgrades.
01-17-2016, 12:43 PM   #55
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It just never stops.
01-17-2016, 12:53 PM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
It just never stops.
01-17-2016, 12:57 PM - 1 Like   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
It just never stops.

Well, I guess there is something that one can always rely on.
01-17-2016, 01:30 PM   #58
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A friend of mine owns a Photography Shop. He sold Nikon, Canon, Minolta ,Olympus, Sony, Pentax , Samsung, Kodak, Go-Pro and more including all the after market stuff plus the expertise that went along with it all(30 Years). Gone is Blacks , Japan Cameras etc.etc. and all the little Expert Multi Shops that were once Here and apparently the Pentax dealers in all of State of Oregon!
He can no longer pay his Rent!!!! And he is the last one except for Walmarts Camera section in amongst the Cell Phones. You think that Pentax Nikon etc is going to survive without Him?
Enjoy what you have and don't count on FF II or for that matter FF!
01-17-2016, 01:51 PM - 1 Like   #59
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I suspect we'd all better learn to buy sight-unseen from Amazon - it isn't just camera stores, it's retail in general.
01-17-2016, 02:14 PM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
sight-unseen from Amazon
Yes and that is burning his ass because their buyer (Amazons') gets to touch and feel and get a very expert run down and then they slither off and buy on line with free shipping incl and nothing else!
That is slowly going to come to an end in all retail as the Brick & Morter people are bled out and disappear.
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