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01-17-2016, 02:31 PM   #61
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I can't stand the lying cheating weasel slimeballs in the camera stores I go to here anyway. I wouldn't buy a camera in a store if they DID stock what I want.

01-17-2016, 02:37 PM   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Some how people think that there is a causale thing between Nikon in trouble and Pentax in trouble. There isn't. Both can go out of business or survive both or just one, wich ever. The surviver has to get it's cashflow in order and products attractive to customers. A company like Nikon depends on the stock market while Pentax has to depend on Ricoh if there would be any trouble in future.

All camera makers have these following camera's that are essentially the same. Wheater it is the Canon 600-series with the same 18mp sensor or Sony's SLT's. Pentax did that with K-30/K-50, WG-series and the GR - GR2. Not a big problem, but your market is smaller since upgrading is not so prominent from the same model. You sell a new camera to someone new, or to someone with a much older model that upgrades.
The problem is that the market is maturing. The number of cameras (both mirrorless and SLRs) sold is going to drop over the next several years. A lot.

Nikon has hooked their future to the idea that they can sell cameras with bigger sensors in a declining market. Maybe they can, maybe they can't, but making cameras is all they do.

On the other hand, Sony, Canon, and Ricoh all do other things and if digital photography declines as a proportion of their revenue, they can deal pretty well with that. I'm not sure about Nikon in the medium term future.

Be that as it may, Ricoh has indicated a firm commitment to growing the Pentax brand and that seems pretty solid right now.
01-17-2016, 02:40 PM   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by TaoMaas Quote
The only way to lay that off is to have a more diversified product line...which Pentax/Ricoh has. I don't mean cameras, I mean binoculars, medical equipment, telescope optics, etc...
Ricoh does not sell Pentax medical equipment. That division stayed with Hoya. In fact, it was the only reason Hoya bought Pentax.
01-17-2016, 02:43 PM   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I can't stand the lying cheating weasel slimeballs in the camera stores I go to here anyway. I wouldn't buy a camera in a store if they DID stock what I want.
I just recently experienced that. I was in a big chain store electronics that is doing very well. The camera part isn't the busy'est place inside. There is more traffic with smartphones, tv's, tablet and the like. I hope they had D500, but realise to late that that wasn't even possible. A sales guy talking to me. He didn't heard of the D500 yet. Well what does he know, it is CES-time and gadgets should be his business. I said "well camera sales are slow probably". O no I couldn't be more wrong he said. Everyone wants camera's these days. Sales of camera's are up 50 % this year. Last year was also very great with sales grow of 50 %. I said that is maybe for this chain (growing marketshare), but not the market. Oh yes the camera market is exploding world wide at the moment!

I guess we are all crazy and he was telling the truth.

01-17-2016, 02:46 PM   #65
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You got to figure that every one on this forum probably owns a Pentax camera. Then there are the owners that are not on this forum. I purchased my Pentax K-5II On-Line and all of my lenses. Did not need to physically hold the camera before plunking down my hard earned dollars. I just read the reviews and did my research. When I got the camera I checked that all the functions were working as advertised. I was not really worried because of the 1 year warranty that came with the camera. If there was something wrong with it, it would go straight back to Amazon. However you got a point in that there are not that many places that fix Pentax DSLR's. Pentax/Richo only have one dedicated Repair facility as of now, I could be wrong. This could be a sticking point for those who use their cameras to earn a living...
01-17-2016, 02:48 PM   #66
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I can't stand the lying cheating weasel slimeballs in the camera stores I go to here anyway. I wouldn't buy a camera in a store if they DID stock what I want.
Syracuse, a metro area of 500,000 to 700,000 depending on demographer, is down to 1 camera store and 1 local discount department store with a photo department.

The camera store only stays in business because it was the owners father's store and she keeps it going in his memory. The department store keeps the photo department going because the owner is a hobbyist.

Three camera stores have closed in the time since I joined this forum simply because the owners retired. All of them cited the decline in film processing as a reason to close the doors...none of them was making a living selling gear. One of them catered to pro photographers, but they kept bankers hours...

Last edited by boriscleto; 01-17-2016 at 03:08 PM.
01-17-2016, 02:48 PM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I can't stand the lying cheating weasel slimeballs in the camera stores I go to here anyway. I wouldn't buy a camera in a store if they DID stock what I want.

Geeze! Maybe some roughage in your Diet?

01-17-2016, 02:49 PM   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
The problem is that the market is maturing. The number of cameras (both mirrorless and SLRs) sold is going to drop over the next several years. A lot.

Nikon has hooked their future to the idea that they can sell cameras with bigger sensors in a declining market. Maybe they can, maybe they can't, but making cameras is all they do.

On the other hand, Sony, Canon, and Ricoh all do other things and if digital photography declines as a proportion of their revenue, they can deal pretty well with that.
I'm not sure about Nikon in the medium term future.

Be that as it may, Ricoh has indicated a firm commitment to growing the Pentax brand and that seems pretty solid right now.
That is exactly what Samsung is doing with their camera's in response to market change.

01-17-2016, 02:50 PM   #69
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I've been avoiding even looking at this thread because I don't want to consider the possibilities being discussed. I've got my eyes closed, see?
01-17-2016, 03:14 PM   #70
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QuoteOriginally posted by DW58 Quote
Pentax 360,

I'll leave the question as to the business health of Pentax to others more knowledgeable than me. I was in your shoes a couple of weeks ago.

I also live in Oregon and was frustrated not to be able to get a hands on experience with Pentax cameras here in Eugene. Looked at Canon/Nikon in my price range locally and was not overly impressed with the build quality. Also, living in Oregon buying a camera with WR sounded like a good idea.

Saw that Camera World in Portland advertised Pentax on their website so gave them a call. No luck. Camera would have to be ordered and would take 2-3 weeks.

Then checked out B&H Photo in New York. The camera and lens I wanted was in stock and priced at $100.00 less than Camera World.

I hate buying anything site unseen but decided to roll the dice and take a chance ordering from B&H. From the other side of the country! Sure glad I did. My new K-50 feels much more substantial in quality than the cameras I was able to check out in person. AND took only one week to get here.
B&H is a great asset to the Pentax community, everywhere you can access their services from. I assume the same goes for Adorama, but I've never bought from them.

Until our local distributor awoke to the threat from the Internet, I bought lenses from B&H, and I could not speak more highly of their service. Of course, we don't have the same import tax regime that exists elsewhere, such as Europe, so many people can't use them, but that's not a problem the OP has.

---------- Post added 18th Jan 2016 at 08:16 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by boriscleto Quote
Ricoh does not sell Pentax medical equipment. That division stayed with Hoya. In fact, it was the only reason Hoya bought Pentax.
Did I read somewhere that they've had problems with their endoscopes? If so, schadenfreude!
01-17-2016, 04:02 PM - 1 Like   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by boriscleto Quote
Syracuse, a metro area of 500,000 to 700,000 depending on demographer, is down to 1 camera store and 1 local discount department store with a photo department.

The camera store only stays in business because it was the owners father's store and she keeps it going in his memory. The department store keeps the photo department going because the owner is a hobbyist.

Three camera stores have closed in the time since I joined this forum simply because the owners retired. All of them cited the decline in film processing as a reason to close the doors...none of them was making a living selling gear. One of them catered to pro photographers, but they kept bankers hours...
St. Louis has a healthy chain with seven local stores and a branch in our college town, plus a couple dealers that cater to pros exclusively. The chain was recently purchased from the original owner, who retired. They apparently only have remainder Pentax stock now and a story went around that Pentax and the chain couldn't agree on terms, so Pentax was dropped. When I last went in one of their stores looking for a lens the salesperson told me Pentax was going out of business.

The pro stores dropped Pentax years ago - they also tell me Pentax is going out of business. One of them calls once a year to invite me to a KEH buying show so I can bring all my Pentax gear in before it becomes worthless - and get something better, like a Nikon.


[EDIT] Just in case, I want to be perfectly clear here. Pentax isn't going out of business. This kind of self-entered behavior on the part of store owners and sales people (trying to sell what the customer doesn't want in order to make a bonus) is why I don't buy my camera gear in stores. B&H and Adorama take my order and make positive suggestions when I call them. In the entirety of my experience, camera stores are full of lying, cheating, thieving slimeballs.

Last edited by monochrome; 01-23-2016 at 09:26 AM.
01-17-2016, 04:20 PM   #72
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
St. Louis has a healthy chain with seven local stores and a branch in our college town, plus a couple dealers that cater to pros exclusively. The chain was recently purchased from the original owner, who retired. They apparently only have remainder Pentax stock now and a story went around that Pentax and the chain couldn't agree on terms, so Pentax was dropped. When I last went in one of their stores looking for a lens the salesperson told me Pentax was going out of business.

The pro stores dropped Pentax years ago - they also tell me Pentax is going out of business. One of them calls once a year to invite me to a KEH buying show so I can bring all my Pentax gear in before it becomes worthless - and get something better, like a Nikon.
I was told by the main sales guy at the discount department store that he tried to stock Pentax at one point but couldn't sell it. They push Canon really hard because they more ad money from them than Nikon...This is a store that used to stock just about everything. Darkroom supplies, enlargers, every brand of SLR, a big used section etc. Plus they were open six days a week with good hours...They push their printing too.
01-17-2016, 04:29 PM   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by boriscleto Quote
Syracuse, a metro area of 500,000 to 700,000 depending on demographer, is down to 1 camera store and 1 local discount department store with a photo department.

The camera store only stays in business because it was the owners father's store and she keeps it going in his memory. The department store keeps the photo department going because the owner is a hobbyist.

Three camera stores have closed in the time since I joined this forum simply because the owners retired. All of them cited the decline in film processing as a reason to close the doors...none of them was making a living selling gear. One of them catered to pro photographers, but they kept bankers hours...

But it is no secret that how items are bought and sold in general changed with internet sales and fast delivery services. Even if I had a physical store to try out cameras, I'd still buy online since the prices are much better. It becomes similar to Guitar Center and music gear, where people go in and try out equipment, then go to musiciansfriend (owned by GC), B&H, or the like and order it for 10-30% less.

The growth of the Walmarts and the McDonalds of the world shows the public value cost highly in their purchase decisions. I think more so than the ability to take the gear home instantly. 2 days is a small wait for 10-30% less. Actually, in some cases items can be shipped over night for less than driving to the store and buying it. And one doesn't have to deal with the craziness of snobby clerks, traffic, or other shoppers.

So I see the demise of the camera store as partly because of this.. if the loss of film related sales was strike #1, the change towards online shopping for less cost is #2. I don't think they'll ever eliminate camera stores as they do have their value (some people can't wait even overnight for an item and some people just value the human interaction or supporting B&M business) but times really have changed in this aspect on the whole.
01-17-2016, 09:57 PM - 3 Likes   #74
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
But it is no secret that how items are bought and sold in general changed with internet sales and fast delivery services. Even if I had a physical store to try out cameras, I'd still buy online since the prices are much better. It becomes similar to Guitar Center and music gear, where people go in and try out equipment, then go to musiciansfriend (owned by GC), B&H, or the like and order it for 10-30% less.

The growth of the Walmarts and the McDonalds of the world shows the public value cost highly in their purchase decisions. I think more so than the ability to take the gear home instantly. 2 days is a small wait for 10-30% less. Actually, in some cases items can be shipped over night for less than driving to the store and buying it. And one doesn't have to deal with the craziness of snobby clerks, traffic, or other shoppers.

So I see the demise of the camera store as partly because of this.. if the loss of film related sales was strike #1, the change towards online shopping for less cost is #2. I don't think they'll ever eliminate camera stores as they do have their value (some people can't wait even overnight for an item and some people just value the human interaction or supporting B&M business) but times really have changed in this aspect on the whole.
The really dreadful thing about window-shopping locally and buying online is that many who do it have no conscience, or dismiss the ethical problem by pretending they're giving the local stores an incentive to lower their prices. It's self-deception at best and unconscionable conduct at worst. I tend to buy online from online evidence, and I don't browse in places I have no intention of buying from.

Years ago, when a work colleague approached me to join Amway, he cited the advantage of looking for clothes locally and then buying through the Amway pyramid. I was repulsed by the unethical greed displayed then, and I still am.

Last edited by RobA_Oz; 01-17-2016 at 10:44 PM.
01-17-2016, 10:14 PM   #75
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Yep, I've noticed people have a phone app that scans the barcode on a product and I presume it gives them online prices. See people using it all the time in bookshops - and quite openly. I think that's pretty rank.
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