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01-17-2016, 10:28 PM   #76
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QuoteOriginally posted by calsan Quote
Yep, I've noticed people have a phone app that scans the barcode on a product and I presume it gives them online prices. See people using it all the time in bookshops - and quite openly. I think that's pretty rank.
At one time, they still do AFAIK, Amazon had an app that did the same. Go into a local store, scan what you want and see the Amazon price. Click "buy it now", done.

I don't think local retail is finished, yet, but in categories where the merchandise is just a commodity and not different in any way from store to store, well I would be worried.

01-17-2016, 10:46 PM   #77
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QuoteOriginally posted by calsan Quote
Yep, I've noticed people have a phone app that scans the barcode on a product and I presume it gives them online prices. See people using it all the time in bookshops - and quite openly. I think that's pretty rank.
Don't get me wrong. There's no ethical issue with merely checking prices, but there is with physical handling and the like, which you can't do online.
01-18-2016, 12:52 AM   #78
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If I had bought Sony A100 when I switch from film to digital close to 10yrs ago, I would be left with a dying mount at this present moment. (I nearly did, luckily I was put off by its use of the Memory stick and did not go for it)
So too if I and got the 'new age' Four Thirds lenses with its promise of a better format for the digital age.

So who is to know what is the right bet for a camera system that can last 10yrs.

Well at least if I was, I'd still be able to stick them on a mirrorless camera and manual focus them.
The other thing about the new mirrorless lenses, most of them won't do a thing on a non-native camera if longevity of mount/brand is a concern.


So to me, buying from a dedicated camera company and lens electronic lenses is the best best for me.

Last edited by pinholecam; 01-18-2016 at 12:59 AM.
01-18-2016, 05:27 AM   #79
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QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
The really dreadful thing about window-shopping locally and buying online is that many who do it have no conscience, or dismiss the ethical problem by pretending they're giving the local stores an incentive to lower their prices. It's self-deception at best and unconscionable conduct at worst. I tend to buy online from online evidence, and I don't browse in places I have no intention of buying from.

Years ago, when a work colleague approached me to join Amway, he cited the advantage of looking for clothes locally and then buying through the Amway pyramid. I was repulsed by the unethical greed displayed then, and I still am.
Oh it is called showrooming. I see nothing unethical about it. Well unless one is putting on a salesman (spending their time) by pretending they are going to buy there. Usually, the response to their initial question of 'can I help you?' is an honest "I'm just looking" .. that is, if any salesman comes out at all. Usually the sales folk take it at face value and walk away. But, if the salesmen want to take it further, that is on them.

It's not unethical to shop around. It is no more greedy than retailers wanting customers to spend more money, yet customers are on the look out to spend the least. The customer owes nothing to the store. And it is to the B&M store's advantage that they have a physical copy on hand, thus drawing a body into their store. After that, it is up to the store to turn that event into a sale. More and more stores are doing just that, encouraging people to bring their smartphone onto the showroom and then price matching or generally just making the showroom and experience in store so positive that they buy there.

When the item is more than 10% over cost though, It would be foolish to not buy online.. or even in another store.


That said, I've bought all my camera gear sight unseen online... I've yet to see a Pentax DSLR in any store actually.

01-18-2016, 06:25 AM   #80
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QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
B&H is a great asset to the Pentax community, everywhere you can access their services from. I assume the same goes for Adorama, but I've never bought from them.

Until our local distributor awoke to the threat from the Internet, I bought lenses from B&H, and I could not speak more highly of their service. Of course, we don't have the same import tax regime that exists elsewhere, such as Europe, so many people can't use them, but that's not a problem the OP has.

---------- Post added 18th Jan 2016 at 08:16 AM ----------



Did I read somewhere that they've had problems with their endoscopes? If so, schadenfreude!
Believe the endoscopes implicated in nosocomial infections are Olympus.
01-18-2016, 07:41 AM   #81
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You're right, it's not unethical, it's immoral. And I am repelled by the practice. I find it repulsive. I don't do it. I try to support local business where I can, but that does not extend to "big-box stores" or mega-chains. There's a guy who has a shoe store on the main street in a nearby town (in fact, the name of the street is, "Main Street"). I buy shoes from him. They cost extra, but that extra enables that guy to feed his family and pay his taxes. Now if you're living on public assistance, I can see buying everything from Wal-Mart's online store based on local shopping. But if you are blessed with the resources to support others around you in their honest work, then I think it's a good idea to do it. Better that than giving money to churches, in my opinion.
01-18-2016, 08:16 AM   #82
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QuoteOriginally posted by calsan Quote
Yep, I've noticed people have a phone app that scans the barcode on a product and I presume it gives them online prices. See people using it all the time in bookshops - and quite openly. I think that's pretty rank.
Well, I'd suggest a little bit of caution with your presumption. Very often in a bookstore I'll grab my phone to look up which is the next book in a series, whether a book is suitable for my seven-year-old, that kind of thing. Or in an electronics store I'll try to figure out whether the TP-Link or the Asus network switch is better regarded or what features they have. Or in a clothing store I'll try to figure out if something is available in 2X if it's not stocked.

And then, often enough, I'll buy.

I don't like the ethical position on browsing locally and buying online either, and it makes me feel self-conscious when I pull out my phone to do one of these things.
01-18-2016, 08:17 AM   #83
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QuoteOriginally posted by dlh Quote
You're right, it's not unethical, it's immoral. And I am repelled by the practice. I find it repulsive. I don't do it. I try to support local business where I can, but that does not extend to "big-box stores" or mega-chains. There's a guy who has a shoe store on the main street in a nearby town (in fact, the name of the street is, "Main Street"). I buy shoes from him. They cost extra, but that extra enables that guy to feed his family and pay his taxes. Now if you're living on public assistance, I can see buying everything from Wal-Mart's online store based on local shopping. But if you are blessed with the resources to support others around you in their honest work, then I think it's a good idea to do it. Better that than giving money to churches, in my opinion.
But it happens on such a large scale that shops can't survive. Overhere in the last two years lots of Shoe shops went banctrupted. The girls walk in and fit a Shoe and then order online. Even sometimes scanning the barcode with some app to make a Quick online order.

01-18-2016, 09:16 AM   #84
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Apple has a great brick and mortar presence. The store near me is always packed with people buying things, and the products are available in a lot of other local stores. The reason is that one normally cannot get a better price online for their products--what you pay in the store is what you pay online typically. In addition, there are some items that are offered in stores only. I know that there are huge differences between Apple and Pentax, but some companies do things to protect local stores.
01-18-2016, 11:01 AM   #85
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Underdogs in any industry will be appreciated only by its fans. Unlike Nikon and Canon, Pentax can sustain on lower sales figures, and they already proved it :-).

In order to gain a good market share all they have to do is to display their K3 in Sam's Club or Costco for a month. The other day I saw D7100, D7200 and Canon 70D in a Costco, but there was no Pentax. People need to be able to see and feel Pentax and be aware of that brand before they can trust. Show-casing it in Photography specific stores limit the exposure and most of the buyers go there with preconceived notions about various brands. Pentax behave as if they don't want to grow too much.
01-18-2016, 11:29 AM   #86
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Costco, Walmart, Sam's, Best Buy - operate on a profit per cubic foot per minute model. There is a limit to the cubic feet on the shelf. It isn't easy to get in their stores.

Did you ever consider Costco or Walmart simply won't stock Pentax because the turn rate is just too low?
01-18-2016, 11:32 AM   #87
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Did you ever consider Costco or Walmart simply won't stock Pentax because the turn rate is just too low?
Costco (occasionally) has Pentax online.
I was in the Costco liquidation centre, and they had 4 sets of a Q10 with 02 (open box though, and I didn't catch the price). And that is in a small town (less than 5000 people).
01-18-2016, 12:31 PM   #88
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QuoteOriginally posted by dlh Quote
You're right, it's not unethical, it's immoral. And I am repelled by the practice. I find it repulsive. I don't do it. I try to support local business where I can, but that does not extend to "big-box stores" or mega-chains. There's a guy who has a shoe store on the main street in a nearby town (in fact, the name of the street is, "Main Street"). I buy shoes from him. They cost extra, but that extra enables that guy to feed his family and pay his taxes. Now if you're living on public assistance, I can see buying everything from Wal-Mart's online store based on local shopping. But if you are blessed with the resources to support others around you in their honest work, then I think it's a good idea to do it. Better that than giving money to churches, in my opinion.
On what grounds is it immoral? It is not immoral to do it in the large store, but is immoral to do to the small? How does THAT work?

It isn't our job to keep the local store in business, unless we want to continue to see the local business. However, if you want to make it your business, that is your business. But it isn't inherently the public's job. Once you enter the business, it is their job to convince you spending your money there is your best option. The better shops will find a way, even if you are buying at a premium over online. Of course if you are going into the store with zero interest to buy there and are wasting staff time that is a whole different situation imo (big or small business).

Regardless of your beliefs, I hope you can see the churches local to you do far more for your community than you're doing giving 10-20% extra for your business. Things such as house repairs for elderly and low income, soup kitchens/food banks, support groups, financial management classes, support for domestic abuse counseling/shelters and care for abused children, etc etc etc...
01-18-2016, 03:14 PM   #89
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
Oh it is called showrooming. I see nothing unethical about it. Well unless one is putting on a salesman (spending their time) by pretending they are going to buy there. Usually, the response to their initial question of 'can I help you?' is an honest "I'm just looking" .. that is, if any salesman comes out at all. Usually the sales folk take it at face value and walk away. But, if the salesmen want to take it further, that is on them.

It's not unethical to shop around. It is no more greedy than retailers wanting customers to spend more money, yet customers are on the look out to spend the least. The customer owes nothing to the store. And it is to the B&M store's advantage that they have a physical copy on hand, thus drawing a body into their store. After that, it is up to the store to turn that event into a sale. More and more stores are doing just that, encouraging people to bring their smartphone onto the showroom and then price matching or generally just making the showroom and experience in store so positive that they buy there.

When the item is more than 10% over cost though, It would be foolish to not buy online.. or even in another store.

That said, I've bought all my camera gear sight unseen online... I've yet to see a Pentax DSLR in any store actually.
Shopping around isn't what I was talking about. People go online to view features and check prices, in order to determine what their final selection will be, and then they go into a local store to view and try the object at first hand, in the knowledge that the local store will not be able to match the online price. If that's not unethical, I don't know what is.
01-18-2016, 03:28 PM   #90
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I sympathize with a camera store owner's plight. For about two seconds I thought being one of them would be cool. Then I woke up! Small business ... retail ... cameras. Three sets of difficulties converging. ☺
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