[mohb]

Pentax behave as if they don't want to grow too much.

Is there any reason why they should want to?

[honey bo bo]

Small business ... retail ... cameras. Three sets of difficulties converging. ☺

As I indicated earlier I have friend who has had a Photoshop Business for 30 years and his father before. Times have changed and continue to change and I'm begging him to get out now( for all the reasons pointed out on this forum) and take his lumps . He will stiff a lot of suppliers incl the Camera biggies but unfortunately some of the carnage will attach to him as well. He like many on this forum got caught up in the hype of the next magical advancement. How many of him does it take to bring down Pentax, Nikon?
For those of you that are not responsible for his demise you are right. No one is.

I would start to familiarize myself with the pictures of iPhones & tablets etc. on Amazon / Apple and Samsung etc. familiarize yourself with ICloud for storage(some of these already limit your storage options to their options) for your next dream UPGRADE in photography. The Big Guys will survive but on their terms not yours (Profitability). You wont have to worry about those skanky clerks either (somebodies sons & daughters).

We are a niche market fast becoming too expensive to maintain!

[mee]

As I indicated earlier I have friend who has had a Photoshop Business for 30 years and his father before. Times have changed and continue to change and I'm begging him to get out now( for all the reasons pointed out on this forum) and take his lumps . He will stiff a lot of suppliers incl the Camera biggies but unfortunately some of the carnage will attach to him as well. He like many on this forum got caught up in the hype of the next magical advancement. How many of him does it take to bring down Pentax, Nikon?
For those of you that are not responsible for his demise you are right. No one is.

I would start to familiarize myself with the pictures of iPhones & tablets etc. on Amazon / Apple and Samsung etc. familiarize yourself with ICloud for storage(some of these already limit your storage options to their options) for your next dream UPGRADE in photography. The Big Guys will survive but on their terms not yours (Profitability). You wont have to worry about those skanky clerks either (somebodies sons & daughters).

We are a niche market fast becoming too expensive to maintain!

I don't think the situation is that dire. The world is simply changing. And, as a result, one must either adapt or die.

This is probably why Ricoh has been hesitant to cater to brick and mortar shops.. B&M are largely going the way of the dodo bird. It would just be a financial anchor that Ricoh doesn't need. Of course, I would love to walk into a Walmart or Bestbuy and see Pentax cameras. I would further love to have a mom and pop camera shop that stocks Pentax where the clerks are friendly types. But there are no little shops around me. Well, there is one, but he is strictly Nikon and Leica (IIRC) and near (one of) the bad part(s) of town.

The warehouse model cannot be beaten on price. Only on service/experience and support do the physical stores have a chance.

---------- Post added 01-18-16 at 07:15 PM ----------

Shopping around isn't what I was talking about. People go online to view features and check prices, in order to determine what their final selection will be, and then they go into a local store to view and try the object at first hand, in the knowledge that the local store will not be able to match the online price. If that's not unethical, I don't know what is.

Yes I understand about what you were mentioning. I've done that before with music gear. Keybed feel is an important element that can't be determined by reading online reviews. So a stop by a Guitar Center to try out all the keyboards and a drive home to order on Amazon. I lost no sleep.

I think the only unethical actions to be done in these situations are using the store's return policy as a means of rental service (cost them money) and, as already mentioned, soaking a salesman's time when they could be helping someone else (potentially costing them a sale).

That said, I've also been in that same GC many times before with the distinct interest of buying that day (checkbook in pocket) and had no salesmen approach me, even though I've stood around the area (of the items of interest) waiting for someone to come by. Then I get in my vehicle exasperated and drive home and order it online (usually for at or a little less). I've had this happen on a car lot too, ready to buy a car cash... salesman walks right past me and approaches someone else. You lose the sale.

Just because store is local doesn't mean it deserves to continue... poor service can kill a business too.

[paulvzo]

There is no telling who is going to be around 10 years from now. That goes for any of the major brands. 2016 is the 10th anniversary of Sony's acquisition of the Minolta brand. Minolta, a major player in the camera business simply disappeared overnight. I do not know if you have heard that Samsung is possibly out of the camera business. So who know which brand is next. Most of today's camera brands have strong parent companies with the resources to help them survive rough economic times. Pentax with Ricoh as the parent company is just as strong as the rest of the major brands.

Pentax with its DSLR, the 645 system, the Q and GR is pretty diversified. They are a lot more diversified than Canon and Nikon. Sony is another story. I am invested in the Pentax APSc system and will be adding the full frame as soon as it is out. Am I worried about survival of Pentax 10 years from now? Not really. Who know which brands is going to be dead or alive then. I want to shoot top notch pics today and Pentax gives me that capability and their cost of entry is the lowest of all the major camera brands.

A correction on the Minolta history. It was bought by Konica, around 2002, 2003, I think. That led to the Konica-Minolta A2. I think it was well under a year after the purchase that Konica decided they didn't want to be in the camera business and shut it down. Sony took over repairs, and some of the Minolta technologies made it into some Sony cameras back then. I'm guessing Sony got to scavenge the Konica corpse if they would handle repairs.

[MadMathMind]

How many new products introduced by Ricoh in 2015 , compared to Canikon?

Remember that yearly updates to products are done for two reasons:
1) Marketing
2) Squeezing the used market

#1 is obvious: "it's new!" You can get old buyers to replace functional equipment to keep up with the times and market to new people better. It makes them feel like they're on the cutting edge.

#2 has two things going on: obviously, 3 models ago feels older than 1 model ago even if the cameras are the same age, so this decreases the appeal of old products. But it does a bigger thing: it removes the old product listings from the stores. Amazon is a big influence here: if the product listing is active, the marketplace feels fresh and a used unit can be found and acquired easily. But if the K-3 III is current, the page for the original K-3 will look out of date and not so appealing. That effectively squeezes used sales and steers people to purchase new products.

That's probably one of the big reasons for the HD refresh of the DA limited lenses we saw a year or so ago. The old SKUs are expired and not found on any major retailer's site so it's harder for people to get used products out there. Much more tempting to buy a used copy when it's on the page you were looking at versus requiring a trip to the pre-owned gear section to locate.

Thus, measuring "new products" isn't terribly useful. What you really want to measure is innovative products. I think you'll find that number small all across the board.

[johnhilvert]

I've just done a preliminary summary of the reasons non-Pentax-users might opt for Pentax this year as part of a separate project at https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/137-photographic-industry-professionals/3...-2016-a-4.html

Feel free to comment and respond to these rankings.

[Rondec]

Remember that yearly updates to products are done for two reasons:
1) Marketing
2) Squeezing the used market

#1 is obvious: "it's new!" You can get old buyers to replace functional equipment to keep up with the times and market to new people better. It makes them feel like they're on the cutting edge.

#2 has two things going on: obviously, 3 models ago feels older than 1 model ago even if the cameras are the same age, so this decreases the appeal of old products. But it does a bigger thing: it removes the old product listings from the stores. Amazon is a big influence here: if the product listing is active, the marketplace feels fresh and a used unit can be found and acquired easily. But if the K-3 III is current, the page for the original K-3 will look out of date and not so appealing. That effectively squeezes used sales and steers people to purchase new products.

That's probably one of the big reasons for the HD refresh of the DA limited lenses we saw a year or so ago. The old SKUs are expired and not found on any major retailer's site so it's harder for people to get used products out there. Much more tempting to buy a used copy when it's on the page you were looking at versus requiring a trip to the pre-owned gear section to locate.

Thus, measuring "new products" isn't terribly useful. What you really want to measure is innovative products. I think you'll find that number small all across the board.

I agree. It is why people skip generations. Even Pentax isn't immune to this. The K5 II basically was the K5 with a fixed auto focus. But in general, when Pentax offers a new model, there is some real new feature that has been added in. I really wish camera companies would get away from the one year refresh on entry models and eighteen month refresh on upper end models (it's a little longer for full frame, but still). Release a new camera when you really have something new to offer -- a new sensor, a new feature, etc. Adding an extra frame per second or changing your max iso from 12k to 25k doesn't qualify in my book.

[RobA_Oz]

Yes I understand about what you were mentioning. I've done that before with music gear. Keybed feel is an important element that can't be determined by reading online reviews. So a stop by a Guitar Center to try out all the keyboards and a drive home to order on Amazon. I lost no sleep.

I think the only unethical actions to be done in these situations are using the store's return policy as a means of rental service (cost them money) and, as already mentioned, soaking a salesman's time when they could be helping someone else (potentially costing them a sale).

That said, I've also been in that same GC many times before with the distinct interest of buying that day (checkbook in pocket) and had no salesmen approach me, even though I've stood around the area (of the items of interest) waiting for someone to come by. Then I get in my vehicle exasperated and drive home and order it online (usually for at or a little less). I've had this happen on a car lot too, ready to buy a car cash... salesman walks right past me and approaches someone else. You lose the sale.

Just because store is local doesn't mean it deserves to continue... poor service can kill a business too.

It seems we disagree on the matter of ethical behaviour, so consider instead the logical outcome of what you've described. If, as you say in reply to another poster, the warehouse model can't be beaten on price, then all retail stores are inevitably doomed to fail, and there will be no Guitar Central for you to try your keyboard options.

There are limits to everything, and I won't pay more than ten percent extra to buy just about anything locally, so I'm not advocating supporting local stores at any cost. However, I've seen so many good, helpful businesses close their doors because someone down the road has trimmed their inventories to carry only the best-selling items, and the community has lost the rich diversity of things that used to be stocked. People travel great distances to get a dollar off a tankful of petrol, so neighbourhood mechanics have all but disappeared. In chasing every last dollar, we've made our societies bland and dysfunctional.

[btnapa]

I agree. It is why people skip generations. Even Pentax isn't immune to this. The K5 II basically was the K5 with a fixed auto focus. But in general, when Pentax offers a new model, there is some real new feature that has been added in. I really wish camera companies would get away from the one year refresh on entry models and eighteen month refresh on upper end models (it's a little longer for full frame, but still). Release a new camera when you really have something new to offer -- a new sensor, a new feature, etc. Adding an extra frame per second or changing your max iso from 12k to 25k doesn't qualify in my book.

I agree with you on incremental improvements as not being good enough. However, Pentax has been behind in the FF game for so long that any introduction from them is a welcome move. As it happens, the new FF will have some nice features. But at the end of the day it is not going to be so groundbreaking that it is going to be a serious threat to the other brands with established FF offerings. With the FF intro, Pentax is giving the people who want to switch a reason to stay.

[ffking]

In chasing every last dollar, we've made our societies bland and dysfunctional.

true dat

[mee]

It seems we disagree on the matter of ethical behaviour, so consider instead the logical outcome of what you've described. If, as you say in reply to another poster, the warehouse model can't be beaten on price, then all retail stores are inevitably doomed to fail, and there will be no Guitar Central for you to try your keyboard options.

You've made some assumptions there. Mainly, that due to the warehouse model's price being lower than the physical storefront's that these physical storefronts are doomed to fail. However, if you had read my comments a bit more thoroughly, you'd see I mentioned these stores can still survive through a better experience and better support in store. Again, it is up to the store to adapt to make the sale. Apathetic or unknowledgeable salesmen and overinflated prices are the aspects a B&M store must mitigate.

When I walk into a store and I know more than the salesman about the products at hand (and I only know the basics), that tells me they haven't done their homework. I run into that often these days. I can find a wealth more information online in sites such as this Pentax Forum quickly. However, if I want to handle the merchandise, I need the physical store. At that point, once I'm there, if the price is 25% more and the clerk isn't helpful, I'd be a fool to buy from them. Their lure (the physical product NOW) wasn't played well enough to hook me.

There are limits to everything, and I won't pay more than ten percent extra to buy just about anything locally, so I'm not advocating supporting local stores at any cost. However, I've seen so many good, helpful businesses close their doors because someone down the road has trimmed their inventories to carry only the best-selling items, and the community has lost the rich diversity of things that used to be stocked. People travel great distances to get a dollar off a tankful of petrol, so neighbourhood mechanics have all but disappeared. In chasing every last dollar, we've made our societies bland and dysfunctional.

I've yet to see a good, helpful business close their doors due to an online retailer. And the neighborhood mechanics still thrive here. While I'm sympathetic to the smaller store being muscled out by the larger (think Walmart), at the end of the day it is a buyer's market and that sadly is part of how it works. If we're dumping money into a store just because it has been around for generations and we're being nostalgic, that is propping up a store that can't sustain itself under the current sales model. However (and agian), a lot of these smaller stores can, and do, survive by providing better support/shopping experience and at least coming into the ballpark of the cost online.

[longbow]

Just walked down to Camera World to drop off a roll of film, but instead found locked doors and a big STORE CLOSING sign......so walk 2 blocks over to Shutterbug. Wish I'd checked there first, their prices are better and a friendlier staff, so not all is doom & gloom.

[RobA_Oz]

You've made some assumptions there. Mainly, that due to the warehouse model's price being lower than the physical storefront's that these physical storefronts are doomed to fail. However, if you had read my comments a bit more thoroughly, you'd see I mentioned these stores can still survive through a better experience and better support in store. Again, it is up to the store to adapt to make the sale. Apathetic or unknowledgeable salesmen and overinflated prices are the aspects a B&M store must mitigate.

When I walk into a store and I know more than the salesman about the products at hand (and I only know the basics), that tells me they haven't done their homework. I run into that often these days. I can find a wealth more information online in sites such as this Pentax Forum quickly. However, if I want to handle the merchandise, I need the physical store. At that point, once I'm there, if the price is 25% more and the clerk isn't helpful, I'd be a fool to buy from them. Their lure (the physical product NOW) wasn't played well enough to hook me.

I've yet to see a good, helpful business close their doors due to an online retailer. And the neighborhood mechanics still thrive here. While I'm sympathetic to the smaller store being muscled out by the larger (think Walmart), at the end of the day it is a buyer's market and that sadly is part of how it works. If we're dumping money into a store just because it has been around for generations and we're being nostalgic, that is propping up a store that can't sustain itself under the current sales model. However (and agian), a lot of these smaller stores can, and do, survive by providing better support/shopping experience and at least coming into the ballpark of the cost online.

I agree that smaller stores can survive on service, but it's usually only, in my experience, serving people with greater disposable income than otherwise, so I think the majority will fail. In the case of discretionary expenditure, buying with price as the major criterion, rather than one among many, does not ultimately serve anyone well, as it drives out competition and diversity in the longer term. Note that I talked about reduced inventory strategies, not online retailers, causing helpful businesses to close, so your sharp comment about reading more closely is doubly good advice.

[LFLee]

I’ve doing research for getting my first DSLR, and Pentax stands out with a better feature set than the competition.

But, I live in Portland Oregon, and there are no Pentax dealers in the entire state.

Besides wanting to see one in person before purchasing, it has me a little worried about the health of Pentax as a brand.

(ps I tried posting this in the visitors center and it wouldn't work)

Yes, features wise, PENTAX standout, and that's is also how I got my first DSLR after doing many searches...

You will probably got the best bang for the bucks in terms of camera features --- but unfortunately, sometime those features are usually several years behind other brand -- but true they pack a lot of features in the camera (even beginner class camera). As a PENTAX user, we sometime get surprise that we got a revolutionary features in camera, like the in sensor star tracking, etc. Unfortunately, no one other than PENTAX user knows about those features, so you have no way to brag about it...

Pentax will soon have the most complete 'upgrade' path to any user, from APSC, FF, to MF... but those cost money, like any other brand.

anyway, choose what you like, and take pictures.

[bertwert]

If Ricoh wanted to get more people to switch to Pentax...

It would be awesome for them to make a left-handed K-3, imagine how many people would want that!


(I'm not left-handed at all, this idea just popped into my head...)