Shake Reduction Doesn't Work..?

Jewelltrail · 07-03-2008, 10:34 PM

Big I

Well, the first image you exposed for 1.6 seconds. The SR reduction is not going to help you in exposures of this length. I do not know of any stabilization feature, by any manufacturer, which will help you in exposures of this length.

It looks like the second image was exposed for 1/15th. The SR can be hit and miss at this exposure if you are not experienced holding for a long exposure. Do you have other shots at and around the 1/15th exposure time?

Regards,

Ernest

Edvinas · 07-03-2008, 11:47 PM

Big I,

You're expecting from shake reduction too much. You should expect that SR will help you to hand hold additional 2 f-stops.

Your test shots were made at 50mm focal length which means that for sharp handheld shot you should use 1/90 sec. exposure. Add another 2 f-stops for SR and you get 1/20sec. with SR.

So, please repeat the same test with shutter speed 1/20sec. Then you are going to see a difference.

lock2nl · 07-04-2008, 01:19 AM

Originally posted by Edvinas

Big I,

You're expecting from shake reduction too much. You should expect that SR will help you to hand hold additional 2 f-stops.

Your test shots were made at 50mm focal length which means that for sharp handheld shot you should use 1/90 sec. exposure. Add another 2 f-stops for SR and you get 1/20sec. with SR.

So, please repeat the same test with shutter speed 1/20sec. Then you are going to see a difference.

And besides that, do letthe SR system get to work. The SR needs some time to stabilize the sensor. (Wait for the little hand symbol after you half press ).

lock

Mike Cash · 07-04-2008, 05:48 AM

Expecting SR to stabilize a 1.6 second exposure is just asking waaaay too much. That's what's wrong.

It is Shake Reduction.....not Magical Shake Elimination.

vizjerei · 07-04-2008, 06:23 AM

Even both has motion blur in the photo, you can see that the one with SR on has more solid line than the one without.

1.6 sec is too long, in this kinda situation, you should choose a higher ISO, and looks like you should be using around ISO 400 in this case.

Robert Barnett · 07-04-2008, 08:24 AM

I was thinking the same thing. Maybe you are able to hold the camera steady. I have a friend that can get tack sharp shots hand-held with no shake reduction at 1 second. He is 92 and I suspect he has figured out a way to bring on a temporary form of rigamortise to do it. But, he does it.

Robert

MrApollinax · 07-04-2008, 08:53 AM

Is he former military or a hunter by any chance? You learn certain tricks for firing with a scope to steady your body and hands.

stevebrot · 07-04-2008, 10:40 AM

Originally posted by Big I

Replies to all of you:
Here are some pictures with and without shake reduction. 50mm, ISO 100, F/8, 1.6 secs, handheld without any brace...

...What's wrong?

Hi,
Yes, both images show camera motion. For an exposure time of 1.6 seconds hand held, that is probably what you can expect. Sorry...

There are limits to this kind of technology.

The rule of thumb is that you can expect 1.5 to 2 stops extension of exposure time. So if you shoot at 1/15 sec, the best you can expect is to get results similar to what you would get at 1/60 sec without SR. Now most of us can get reasonable results at 1/60 sec; so I would consider that 1/15 sec may be the practical lower limit of workable shutter speeds with SR. Sometimes we can do better, but very seldom.

Steve

arbutusq · 07-04-2008, 12:31 PM

I find i can get reliable blur free photos until about 1/10 second and about 50% keepers around 1/6. Beyond that its beyond SR in my opinion.

Rusty · 07-04-2008, 02:23 PM

Here are some pictures with and without shake reduction. 50mm, ISO 100, F/8, 1.6 secs, handheld without any brace.

According to the Exif data both shots had SR ON.

SR does nothing at the slow shutter speed you chose. It is designed to give you around two stops advantage, but at very slow shutter speeds any advantage is canceled by the excessive camera shake.

Try shutter speeds faster than one second (say 1/5) and see the difference.

Rusty

cardinal43 · 07-04-2008, 02:30 PM

Originally posted by Jewelltrail

According to the EXIF data I see, you are actually using a K20d after all. Can you confirm this for us? Thanks.

Regards,

Ernest

I checked the EXIF data on both photos, and they both show K10D

flyer · 07-04-2008, 03:32 PM

The EXIF shows 1.6 sec. No shake reduction will be able to correct shake at 1.6 sec. With your lens and camera, you could go to 1/8 or 1/4 sec, but you won't get a 1.6 sec exposure sharp. Unfortunately, miracles don't happen in 1.6 sec. You might consider buying a book or two concerning photography do's and don'ts.

stevebrot · 07-04-2008, 03:53 PM

Originally posted by flyer

...You might consider buying a book or two concerning photography do's and don'ts.

Ouch! I thought I told you kids to play nice!

Unrealistic expectations of technology does not equal ignorance of basic theory.

Steve

little laker · 07-04-2008, 05:35 PM

Big I,

Everyone is right here. You can't expect a 1+ second shot to be nice and sharp even with the best SR systems. And your camera has one of the best systems that I know of.

If you just plain don't have a tripod, or don't have it with you. You can always set your camera on a jacket, ontop of a table or stump or something to get your shot.
Use your imagination, and you'll get the shot.

This pic was taken on my other system, however to get the results I rested my camera on a fence, using my lens hood to prop the camera to the right angle. And took a 3.2 second exposure

I used a 10 second shutter delay ensuring I never moved the camera.

In this case I left my tripods in my car across town

RiceHigh · 07-04-2008, 11:04 PM

Originally posted by Big I

Hello! This is my first post.

I have a problem with the Shake Reduction on my K10D: It doesn't seem to do any lick of difference! I have done hundreds of tests, and it has never made even the tiniest of differences. Does anybody know what's wrong? Can anyone help me?

I came from the forums at dpreview.com after getting frustrated because I never got replies to my questions. Hopefully this thread will at least have a few replies.

Thanks

At higher shutter speed, you won't see much difference. At too low a shutter speed, it can't do miracle.

So, the range it will work is at 2 to 3 stops lower than the "safe" shutter speed, which is 1/focal length (35 equivalent), but still, that varies person to person.

E.g., if you really want to test, you have a FA 35 lens attached to your K10D, say, the "safe" shutter speed is about 1/50th second. So, at 1/30th sec, the SR should work and make some difference and at 1/15th, it *should* still work. But at 1/8th, I am afraid you will get blur pictures again even you have the SR turned on.

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07-03-2008, 10:34 PM	#16
Jewelltrail Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Rhode Island Photos: Albums Posts: 4,180	Big I Well, the first image you exposed for 1.6 seconds. The SR reduction is not going to help you in exposures of this length. I do not know of any stabilization feature, by any manufacturer, which will help you in exposures of this length. It looks like the second image was exposed for 1/15th. The SR can be hit and miss at this exposure if you are not experienced holding for a long exposure. Do you have other shots at and around the 1/15th exposure time? Regards, Ernest

07-03-2008, 11:47 PM	#17
Edvinas Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Kaunas Posts: 1,458	Big I, You're expecting from shake reduction too much. You should expect that SR will help you to hand hold additional 2 f-stops. Your test shots were made at 50mm focal length which means that for sharp handheld shot you should use 1/90 sec. exposure. Add another 2 f-stops for SR and you get 1/20sec. with SR. So, please repeat the same test with shutter speed 1/20sec. Then you are going to see a difference.

07-04-2008, 01:19 AM	#18
lock2nl Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 48	Originally posted by Edvinas Big I, You're expecting from shake reduction too much. You should expect that SR will help you to hand hold additional 2 f-stops. Your test shots were made at 50mm focal length which means that for sharp handheld shot you should use 1/90 sec. exposure. Add another 2 f-stops for SR and you get 1/20sec. with SR. So, please repeat the same test with shutter speed 1/20sec. Then you are going to see a difference. And besides that, do letthe SR system get to work. The SR needs some time to stabilize the sensor. (Wait for the little hand symbol after you half press ). lock

07-04-2008, 05:48 AM	#19
Mike Cash Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Japan Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,950	Expecting SR to stabilize a 1.6 second exposure is just asking waaaay too much. That's what's wrong. It is Shake Reduction.....not Magical Shake Elimination.

07-04-2008, 06:23 AM	#20
vizjerei Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,418	Even both has motion blur in the photo, you can see that the one with SR on has more solid line than the one without. 1.6 sec is too long, in this kinda situation, you should choose a higher ISO, and looks like you should be using around ISO 400 in this case.

07-04-2008, 08:24 AM	#21
Robert Barnett Inactive Account Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Santa Rosa, CA Posts: 65	I was thinking the same thing. Maybe you are able to hold the camera steady. I have a friend that can get tack sharp shots hand-held with no shake reduction at 1 second. He is 92 and I suspect he has figured out a way to bring on a temporary form of rigamortise to do it. But, he does it. Robert

07-04-2008, 08:53 AM	#22
MrApollinax Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Minnesota Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,529	Is he former military or a hunter by any chance? You learn certain tricks for firing with a scope to steady your body and hands.

07-04-2008, 10:40 AM	#23
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by Big I Replies to all of you: Here are some pictures with and without shake reduction. 50mm, ISO 100, F/8, 1.6 secs, handheld without any brace... ...What's wrong? Hi, Yes, both images show camera motion. For an exposure time of 1.6 seconds hand held, that is probably what you can expect. Sorry... There are limits to this kind of technology. The rule of thumb is that you can expect 1.5 to 2 stops extension of exposure time. So if you shoot at 1/15 sec, the best you can expect is to get results similar to what you would get at 1/60 sec without SR. Now most of us can get reasonable results at 1/60 sec; so I would consider that 1/15 sec may be the practical lower limit of workable shutter speeds with SR. Sometimes we can do better, but very seldom. Steve

07-04-2008, 12:31 PM	#24
arbutusq Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Vancouver BC canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 380	I find i can get reliable blur free photos until about 1/10 second and about 50% keepers around 1/6. Beyond that its beyond SR in my opinion.

07-04-2008, 02:23 PM	#25
Rusty Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sydney Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 73	Here are some pictures with and without shake reduction. 50mm, ISO 100, F/8, 1.6 secs, handheld without any brace. According to the Exif data both shots had SR ON. SR does nothing at the slow shutter speed you chose. It is designed to give you around two stops advantage, but at very slow shutter speeds any advantage is canceled by the excessive camera shake. Try shutter speeds faster than one second (say 1/5) and see the difference. Rusty

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07-04-2008, 02:30 PM	#26
cardinal43 Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,412	Originally posted by Jewelltrail According to the EXIF data I see, you are actually using a K20d after all. Can you confirm this for us? Thanks. Regards, Ernest I checked the EXIF data on both photos, and they both show K10D

07-04-2008, 03:32 PM	#27
flyer Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Ste-Anne des Plaines, Qc., Canada Posts: 2,013	The EXIF shows 1.6 sec. No shake reduction will be able to correct shake at 1.6 sec. With your lens and camera, you could go to 1/8 or 1/4 sec, but you won't get a 1.6 sec exposure sharp. Unfortunately, miracles don't happen in 1.6 sec. You might consider buying a book or two concerning photography do's and don'ts.

07-04-2008, 03:53 PM	#28
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by flyer ...You might consider buying a book or two concerning photography do's and don'ts. Ouch! I thought I told you kids to play nice! Unrealistic expectations of technology does not equal ignorance of basic theory. Steve

07-04-2008, 05:35 PM	#29
little laker Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Photos: Gallery Posts: 5,697	Big I, Everyone is right here. You can't expect a 1+ second shot to be nice and sharp even with the best SR systems. And your camera has one of the best systems that I know of. If you just plain don't have a tripod, or don't have it with you. You can always set your camera on a jacket, ontop of a table or stump or something to get your shot. Use your imagination, and you'll get the shot. This pic was taken on my other system, however to get the results I rested my camera on a fence, using my lens hood to prop the camera to the right angle. And took a 3.2 second exposure I used a 10 second shutter delay ensuring I never moved the camera. In this case I left my tripods in my car across town

07-04-2008, 11:04 PM	#30
RiceHigh Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 1,934	Originally posted by Big I Hello! This is my first post. I have a problem with the Shake Reduction on my K10D: It doesn't seem to do any lick of difference! I have done hundreds of tests, and it has never made even the tiniest of differences. Does anybody know what's wrong? Can anyone help me? I came from the forums at dpreview.com after getting frustrated because I never got replies to my questions. Hopefully this thread will at least have a few replies. Thanks At higher shutter speed, you won't see much difference. At too low a shutter speed, it can't do miracle. So, the range it will work is at 2 to 3 stops lower than the "safe" shutter speed, which is 1/focal length (35 equivalent), but still, that varies person to person. E.g., if you really want to test, you have a FA 35 lens attached to your K10D, say, the "safe" shutter speed is about 1/50th second. So, at 1/30th sec, the SR should work and make some difference and at 1/15th, it should still work. But at 1/8th, I am afraid you will get blur pictures again even you have the SR turned on.