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02-16-2016, 11:39 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
I don't know about camera bodies, the resale value isn't all THAT attractive. But lenses retain their value much better. I can imagine people selling crop-only lenses to help fund that K-1.
I plan on consolidating all my APS-C only lenses into 1 APS-C kit for my GF and selling the leftovers to fund FF lenses. She may want my K3 body as a backup, otherwise I'll sell it, too.

I can't see any reason at all to have an APS-C K3 as a backup to a FF K1. The whole purpose and logic behind buying a K1 renders the K3 obsolete. If a K3 would be an adequate backup, there's no justification for the K1 from a purely functional standpoint. That's my entire rational to switch, I need what a FF can do and an APS-C can't, so my backup would also need to be FF.

02-16-2016, 11:46 AM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by nomadkng Quote
I can't see any reason at all to have an APS-C K3 as a backup to a FF K1. The whole purpose and logic behind buying a K1 renders the K3 obsolete.
1) With a 1.535x crop factor, you have additional reach available when required
2) You can have a second lens mounted on the K-3 and can swap between both cameras quickly without having to change lenses
3) If the K-1 develops a fault, you still have a camera to shoot with (it's not ideal, of course, but at least it's a camera)

Those might not be important to you, but they are three good reasons to have an APS-C backup to a FF camera...
02-16-2016, 12:24 PM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
1) With a 1.535x crop factor, you have additional reach available when required
2) You can have a second lens mounted on the K-3 and can swap between both cameras quickly without having to change lenses
3) If the K-1 develops a fault, you still have a camera to shoot with (it's not ideal, of course, but at least it's a camera)

Those might not be important to you, but they are three good reasons to have an APS-C backup to a FF camera...
1- Technically you don't have additional reach, you merely have reduced field of view, the magnification factor does not change. But that semantic aside, the FF will have "crop mode" if I should ever, for some strange reason, wish to sacrifice MP. And that's not even addressing any theoretical improvements in AF tracking etc the K1 should (must? better?) possess. The advantage of "reach", to use your terminology, for all intents and purposes only comes into play for wildlife or maybe airshow subjects, which all would still benefit from more advanced functionality.
2- Removing the "emotional" aspect of FF vs APS-C images, assuming advances in AF tracking, better dynamic range, better signal to noise handling et al, why would I swap between an "inferior" K3 and a K1? And honestly, if the K1 is not superior to the K3 on many levels (such that a K3 would still remain an adequate or equivalent backup), I'd have a really tough time justifying its purchase. I believe I'm not going to be the ONLY person switching to FF because it more closely matches their shooting needs and/or the K1 addresses some still major technical flaws of the K3. It's not a case of owning a K3 because it's good enough, it's because I didn't have much of choice in pentaxland until now. I've needed a FF camera for about 5 years now, but could not afford/justify the very large cost to switch systems. I have no intention of ever reverting to APS-C.
3- I have a K30 that is "the kids'" camera. When a K3 was lost due to theft, it was deemed insufficient, even as an emergency replacement. If I'm in a scenario where a backup is a 100% must, the only responsible thing to do would be to have another K1. Were I shooting weddings or on another type of high profile paid assignment, I'm at worst renting another K1 for the duration. It all circles back to expectations of image results. If a K3 is "good enough," it would be very difficult for me to justify the extra expense of a K1.

I'm buying the K1 because the K3 isn't "good enough" NOW for what I want/need in image quality/production.

Last edited by nomadkng; 02-16-2016 at 12:34 PM.
02-16-2016, 12:39 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by nomadkng Quote
1- Technically you don't have additional reach, you merely have reduced field of view, the magnification factor does not change. But that semantic aside, the FF will have "crop mode" if I should ever, for some strange reason, wish to sacrifice MP. And that's not even addressing any theoretical improvements in AF tracking etc the K1 should (must? better?) possess. The advantage of "reach", to use your terminology, for all intents and purposes only comes into play for wildlife or maybe airshow subjects, which all would still benefit from more advanced functionality.
2- Removing the "emotional" aspect of FF vs APS-C images, assuming advances in AF tracking, better dynamic range, better signal to noise handling et al, why would I swap between an "inferior" K3 and a K1? And honestly, if the K1 is not superior to the K3 on many levels (such that a K3 would still remain an adequate or equivalent backup), I'd have a really tough time justifying its purchase. I believe I'm not going to be the ONLY person switching to FF because it more closely matches their shooting needs and/or the K1 addresses some still major technical flaws of the K3. It's not a case of owning a K3 because it's good enough, it's because I didn't have much of choice in pentaxland until now. I've needed a FF camera for about 5 years now, but could not afford/justify the very large cost to switch systems. I have no intention of ever reverting to APS-C.
3- I have a K30 that is "the kids'" camera. When a K3 was lost due to theft, it was deemed insufficient, even as an emergency replacement. If I'm in a scenario where a backup is a 100% must, the only responsible thing to do would be to have another K1. Were I shooting weddings or on another type of high profile paid assignment, I'm at worst renting another K1 for the duration. It all circles back to expectations of image results. If a K3 is "good enough," it would be very difficult for me to justify the extra expense of a K1.

I'm buying the K1 because the K3 isn't "good enough" NOW for what I want/need in image quality/production.
You definitely demand a lot more from your cameras than I do from mine. It does indeed sound like the K3 wouldn't be a useful backup for you, after all. Enjoy the K-1.

02-16-2016, 12:46 PM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by mellowyeahlow Quote
Do you guys think there will be a flood of used K3/K3ii for sale once the FF K-1 hits the market?
Can't predict what anyone else will do, but it will make sense for me to use the K3 for long work and field work and the K1 for landscape and other shorter work. I imagine that could be a common plan for some number of us.
02-16-2016, 12:53 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by nomadkng Quote
1- Technically you don't have additional reach, you merely have reduced field of view, the magnification factor does not change. But that semantic aside, the FF will have "crop mode" if I should ever, for some strange reason, wish to sacrifice MP. And that's not even addressing any theoretical improvements in AF tracking etc the K1 should (must? better?) possess. The advantage of "reach", to use your terminology, for all intents and purposes only comes into play for wildlife or maybe airshow subjects, which all would still benefit from more advanced functionality. 2- Removing the "emotional" aspect of FF vs APS-C images, assuming advances in AF tracking, better dynamic range, better signal to noise handling et al, why would I swap between an "inferior" K3 and a K1? And honestly, if the K1 is not superior to the K3 on many levels (such that a K3 would still remain an adequate or equivalent backup), I'd have a really tough time justifying its purchase. I believe I'm not going to be the ONLY person switching to FF because it more closely matches their shooting needs and/or the K1 addresses some still major technical flaws of the K3. It's not a case of owning a K3 because it's good enough, it's because I didn't have much of choice in pentaxland until now. I've needed a FF camera for about 5 years now, but could not afford/justify the very large cost to switch systems. I have no intention of ever reverting to APS-C. 3- I have a K30 that is "the kids'" camera. When a K3 was lost due to theft, it was deemed insufficient, even as an emergency replacement. If I'm in a scenario where a backup is a 100% must, the only responsible thing to do would be to have another K1. Were I shooting weddings or on another type of high profile paid assignment, I'm at worst renting another K1 for the duration. It all circles back to expectations of image results. If a K3 is "good enough," it would be very difficult for me to justify the extra expense of a K1.
Same here. I guess once I'd get a K-1 , I'd never use the K-3 again, especially when you know than the K-1 can give you the "extra reach of apsc" by cropping and is about the same size and weight as a K-3 combo. When I was a beginner, it was fine for me to have a Pentax DSLR, but as I learned and knew better what I use and what I want, I got frustrated by Pentax DSLR, and , truth be told, the only reason why I did not switch was because I did not want to pay for the cost of switching. Except that I understood that getting a new lens in a while is the best way to get swamped into a mount... so I already went on a camera expense diet for a couple of years, I might well "use up" what I have for two more years, and then I'd have enough savings and the technology gap will be large enough for me to open the tap again for a brand new system. Basically, I don't want to buy one camera at a time and one lens at a time anymore, because that the best way to get trapped and stuck into a lens mount if this lens mount do not offer good photographic performance basics. The thing that I don't like with Pentax is that they keep differentiating their products with secondary features and still carry problems on the basic camera features. That's a problem for me because I'm not interested in a product full of gadgets features because I know that it won't show in the photo results, I want simple bare camera and optical performance = fast lens, large sensor, fast accurate AF, and choice of focal length, I don't use all those gimmicks such as OAA simulator, diffraction correction , lens correction , pixel shift etc. Example: pro cameras such as 1Dx, D4, D5 don't have OAA simulator, pixel shift etc...

Last edited by biz-engineer; 02-16-2016 at 01:09 PM.
02-16-2016, 12:55 PM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
When I was a beginner, it was fine for me to have a Pentax DSLR, but as I learned and knew better what I use and what I want, I got frustrated by Pentax DSLR, and , truth be told, the only reason why I did not switch was because I did not want to pay for the cost of switching.
Oh, heavens. I must still be at the beginner stage!
02-16-2016, 01:27 PM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by nomadkng Quote
2- Removing the "emotional" aspect of FF vs APS-C images, assuming advances in AF tracking, better dynamic range, better signal to noise handling et al, why would I swap between an "inferior" K3 and a K1? And honestly, if the K1 is not superior to the K3 on many levels (such that a K3 would still remain an adequate or equivalent backup), I'd have a really tough time justifying its purchase.
One reason, for me, is risk. I will be a lot more upset dropping a $2K camera in the river than a $600 one. Same reason I don't take the 560 in my kayak, but will dare it with the 150-500. Though I am exceptionally careful with my gear, last fall a river otter playfully (?) tried to come aboard and I nearly lost it all. Scared the heck out of me! Insurance doesn't ever seem to take that sickening feeling out of your stomach.

To your point, however, I do experience occasional dissatisfaction when, for safety reasons, I resort to the K50 on the water vs the K3. I have gotten very used to the K3's superior output and handling and it has raised my expectations considerably. I imagine the same could become true of the K1 vs K3, assuming a similar quality differential.

02-16-2016, 01:36 PM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
Oh, heavens. I must still be at the beginner stage!
Ah ah not necessarily; it depends on your interests. For still photography, IMO Pentax can do all, and FF is very good at that. For long lenses and AF, it's easy to hit the wall of Pentax.

Edit: I'd still have two years to improve my technique which will then have beaten the limitations of the K-3, then I won't need to buy anything else, i.e switching to manual focus and beat the D500 with a K-3.

Last edited by biz-engineer; 02-16-2016 at 01:52 PM.
02-16-2016, 01:43 PM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
Oh, heavens. I must still be at the beginner stage!
you just haven't developed the 'I'm too good for ASPc' mindset.
02-16-2016, 01:56 PM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Ah ah not necessarily; it depends on your interests.
Here, I agree

QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
For still photography, IMO Pentax can do all, and FF is very good at that. For long lenses and AF, it's easy to hit the wall of Pentax.
Yeah, that pretty much covers my photography... mostly stills - portrait / landscape / graphic-art etc. Even then, AF can be an issue on some of my lenses - particularly in low light - such that I habitually auto-focus twice before taking the shot (my Tammy 28-75 f/2.8 and Sigma 17-50 f/2.8 get this treatment!). I don't go above 300mm - in fact I rarely venture that high and make do with the HD DA 55-300 for that. I can see how AF and long-lens needs might get frustrating for those who need best performance & availability in those areas...

---------- Post added 02-16-2016 at 09:04 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by mohb Quote
you just haven't developed the 'I'm too good for ASPc' mindset.
He he Actually, I love FF, and totally get why others do. But, I love APS-C too. I really don't see one as better or worse than the other.... just different. And I guess I don't have such high expectations of my gear - if it has limitations / problems, I simply learn to work with them; but then, I'm only a hobbyist, so I have that luxury.

I think it will be exciting to see what the K-1 offers in terms of functional advances, but the K3 & K3II will be my main cameras for years to come. I have no desire to move to full-frame on Pentax right now, and certainly no justification... Curiosity isn't a good enough reason
02-16-2016, 02:04 PM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
Oh, heavens. I must still be at the beginner stage!
i don't know about you, but I've been at the beginner stage for 35 years. Of course, that means there is nothing I've tried to do with a Pentax and couldn't do that I would have been able to do with a Nikon.
02-16-2016, 02:13 PM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
i don't know about you, but I've been at the beginner stage for 35 years.
LOL Well, I haven't been into photography for that long - maybe 8 or 9 years, but I've been a guitarist (non-professional) for 34 years or so, and often feel like a beginner there. Every time I think to myself, "Hey, you're pretty good at this!", someone takes me to a concert, loans me a record / CD, or sends me a YouTube link for someone who can *really* play - at which point I look at my guitars, then my hands (especially now that arthritis has started to set in!), and wonder why I even bother... but the feeling passes and I continue

QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Of course, that means there is nothing I've tried to do with a Pentax and couldn't do that I would have been able to do with a Nikon.
Shhhh, Paul! Keep your voice down, there are Nikon guys everywhere!!

02-16-2016, 02:18 PM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
3) If the K-1 develops a fault, you still have a camera to shoot with (it's not ideal, of course, but at least it's a camera)

Those might not be important to you, but they are three good reasons to have an APS-C backup to a FF camera...
I always thought this was the reason for a backup in the first place. I'll be keeping my K-5 IIs to use in emergencies. I'd hate to have to cancel planned shoots because the camera died. The K-5IIs has served me well enough until now, and since I'm not doing paid work, is more than sufficient.
02-16-2016, 02:26 PM   #45
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I wouldnt mind it if a bunch of k3s flooded the market. I have a feeling I'd find room for another one here if one comes along at a bargain.. FF aside the K3 is a really nice camera for its current price. If its less expensive because of a market sell off... its even more attractive to those that like it.
Al

Last edited by brewmaster15; 02-16-2016 at 03:38 PM.
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