Dear Pentax, don't forget about us APS-C Shooters!

stevebrot · 02-26-2016, 12:49 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by apete

Besides... if bigger sensor is so so so freaking good, why have not we all yet moved to 645Z?????

$$$$$ ??????

Steve

Adam · 02-26-2016, 01:27 PM - **3 Likes**

Originally posted by Blacknight659

I am very happy about the K-1 being launched and may very well one day purchase it. I am only afraid that all of the development power will be pushed into the FF system and we will be lacking in APS-C innovation. I know there are still wonderful lenses available to me, but I am still hoping for more WR versions of their already awesome glass (12-24 WR please!).

anyone else feel the same?

In our interview, they said they haven't forgotten, but that the K-1 drained pretty much all of their development resources in recent months. The APS-C line will continue with a focus on speed and compactness.

mikeSF · 02-26-2016, 01:41 PM - **1 Like**

no concerns here whatsoever and I plan on staying with my K3II and the APS-C platform for a good while to come.
I'd guess the large majority of units sold will continue to be in the enthusiast/semi-pro category where a <$1K price point of an APS-C body makes perfect sense.

pathdoc · 02-26-2016, 02:27 PM

It is easier to fit an APS-C sensor in an existing FF body than it is to fit a FF sensor in an existing APS-C body. I have no doubt that the trickling down of FF tech will come, but Pentax needs to concentrate on filling FF order demands first. The KS-2 and K3/K3-II are both sufficiently new that no immediate replacement is called for, but I imagine the engineers want to see how their tech performs in the field before putting it in another camera.

**boriscleto** · 02-26-2016, 04:08 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by stevebrot

The rear tilt screen design

The K-S2 already has a tilt screen. I don't see why any future APS-C wouldn't have one too.

**jpzk** · 02-26-2016, 04:28 PM

Originally posted by Ilovemypentax

If Pentax wants to make something different they should make the following...

Leica rangefinder knockoff FF 36-40 mp for $2500.

M43 simplified with shutter dial.

A 6mp FF digital back for a Hassy for $2500

Seriously ??

**filoxophy** · 02-26-2016, 05:29 PM

Originally posted by jpzk

Seriously ??

I took it as a joke...

**beachgardener** · 02-26-2016, 09:03 PM

Originally posted by boriscleto

The K-S2 already has a tilt screen. I don't see why any future APS-C wouldn't have one too.

yeah for sure, in fact, I prefer the articulated type of screen of the K-S2 to the flippy type screen found on the K-1.

mee · 02-26-2016, 09:26 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by savoche

In the mean time several new APS-C bodies have cropped up.....

'APS-C' ... 'cropped up' ahh photography humor.

stevebrot · 02-26-2016, 09:38 PM

Originally posted by boriscleto

The K-S2 already has a tilt screen. I don't see why any future APS-C wouldn't have one too.

I should probably edit to say the nifty, innovative, and unique (and very thick) rear LCD. It is a little bulky to put on a smaller body, but that is just my opinion.

Steve

(...might also add that after having owned cameras with the swing-out type, it is not a feature I would pay extra for...tend to be fragile...)

stevebrot · 02-26-2016, 09:42 PM

Originally posted by filoxophy

I took it as a joke...

Me too...

Steve

**savoche** · 02-27-2016, 01:08 AM

Originally posted by mee

'APS-C' ... 'cropped up' ahh photography humor.

Ah. No pun intended

Not a Number · 02-27-2016, 04:42 AM

So there we have it. In the PF CP+ interview Ricoh said they will continue to develop APS-C. Among the virtues for doing so is faster FPS.

GregL65 · 03-10-2016, 03:56 AM

I've been watching Pentax a long time; after shooting Pentax film SLRs, I got my *ist D in April 2004 (I have a K-5 ii now). Here's what I think is most likely to happen:

First, I don't think anyone seriously thinks Pentax APS-C will be abandoned entirely. Future replacements for the K-S1 are all but assured for years to come. I think the real question is whether *enthusiast-grade* APS-C will be abandoned, leaving only consumer-grade updates for that format.

I don't think even Pentax/Ricoh knows the answer to that for certain at this point. I think it will depend on two things:
-- How well Pentax Full-Frame sells, both bodies and lenses, and:
-- To what extent those are truly new sales vs. cannibalized enthusiast-grade APS-C sales.

In the short term, I think there will be a lot of truly new sales, to people who would not have bought Pentax APS-C, and to people who have already bought Pentax APS-C. But in the long term, I think a high proportion of Pentax Full-Frame sales will cannibalize Pentax enthusiast-grade APS-C sales.

When and if that pattern is established, I think Pentax will decide that a true upgrade to the K-3 ii doesn't make economic sense -- too few buyers interested, since so many will have switched to Pentax Full Frame. Maybe we'll see a K-3 iii minor update, but no true upgrade. But I think we will see the K-3 ii (or iii or whatever) soldier on for a long time, as a symbolic halo for the APS-C line, long after it is selling in significant numbers, just as the *ist D was available long after it was competitive, until it was replaced by the K10D.

Another reason to think that there will be no true APS-C K-3 replacement is that the naming seems to point to the K-1 being the replacement for the K-3 (K-7, then K-5, then K-3, then K-1).

But with the high end of the old K-3 market now buying the K-1, and with the K-S1 market basically unchanged, that will leave a different market for the K-S2 replacement. In addition to the old K-30/K-50/K-S2 market, it will still have to serve what had been the low end, maybe the lower half or more, of the old K-3 market. To sell the most cameras to that group, Pentax will want to hit the middle of that market. That would mean something *between* a K-S2 replacement and a true K-3 replacement. Since most of the old K-3 market is not keen on the high-fashion aesthetics of the K-S2, that camera will probably look more like an update to the K-50.

Besides aesthetics, in what ways will that camera be more like a K-3 update than a K-S2 update? Probably in whatever ways Pentax thinks most of that low end of the old K-3 market will demand in order to buy it. Here are my guesses:
-- Sensor. I think we'll see ISO higher than the K-3's 51,200, and FPS not less than the K-3's 8.3. And it will be a better sensor than the K-S1's replacement, which can and should continue to use a low-cost sensor.
-- Buffer. Not less than the K-3.
-- Write speed. Not less than the K-3.
-- AF speed, points, etc. I think this will come from the K-1.
-- Bracketing

And here's what I think will be more like a K-S2 replacement:
-- A pop-up flash rather than the K-3's GPS, or maybe something else entirely if ISO does go up. Hybrid viewfinder?
-- No magnesium alloy body
-- The LDC will tilt (like a K-S2, not like a K-1).
-- Max shutter speed
-- USB 2.0, not 3.0
-- Flash settings

If they don't do that, and instead replace the K-S2 with a straightforward K-S2 upgrade with no nod to K-3 owners that don't want to upgrade to Full Frame, then the low end of the old K-3 market will be cast adrift. Some will downgrade eventually to a K-S2 replacement, but many will start looking at other brands, especially well-established mirrorless APS-C and micro 4/3 lines. I will be surprised if Pentax lets that happen, when it would be so easy to keep most of those customers by moving the K-S2 replacement somewhat upmarket.

Regarding lenses, I think the only new enthusiast-grade APS-C lenses we should expect to see in the long-term future is wide-angle and medium zooms. For enthusiast-grade primes and telephoto zooms, I think long-term the enthusiast APS-C crowd will be expected to buy future full-frame lenses or make do with existing models.

totsmuyco · 03-10-2016, 04:44 AM

I would presume that Pentax will end the APS-C line if there will be some new format that will make APS-C obsolete. But I still believe that as long as there will be a demand for a high end APS-C camera, Pentax will continue to fill it up. I for one am not willing to buy into a full frame system and I still like to have compact APS-C cameras with the level of the K-3II to replace my cameras in the future. I wouldn't be surprised it the K-3 line will be the high end APS-C for quite some time. I also think only minor upgrades will be made on this system. But who knows, maybe we'll see an APS-C similar to the D500.

02-26-2016, 01:27 PM - 3 Likes	#17
Adam Administrator Site Webmaster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 51,594	Originally posted by Blacknight659 I am very happy about the K-1 being launched and may very well one day purchase it. I am only afraid that all of the development power will be pushed into the FF system and we will be lacking in APS-C innovation. I know there are still wonderful lenses available to me, but I am still hoping for more WR versions of their already awesome glass (12-24 WR please!). anyone else feel the same? In our interview, they said they haven't forgotten, but that the K-1 drained pretty much all of their development resources in recent months. The APS-C line will continue with a focus on speed and compactness. Adam PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide \| Site Help \| My Photography) PentaxForums.com server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover these costs by donating or purchasing one of our Pentax eBooks. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, KEH, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

02-26-2016, 04:08 PM - 1 Like	#20
boriscleto Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: North Syracuse, NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 16,475	Originally posted by stevebrot The rear tilt screen design The K-S2 already has a tilt screen. I don't see why any future APS-C wouldn't have one too.

03-10-2016, 03:56 AM	#29
GregL65 Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Bellevue, WA Posts: 63	I've been watching Pentax a long time; after shooting Pentax film SLRs, I got my ist D in April 2004 (I have a K-5 ii now). Here's what I think is most likely to happen: First, I don't think anyone seriously thinks Pentax APS-C will be abandoned entirely. Future replacements for the K-S1 are all but assured for years to come. I think the real question is whether enthusiast-grade* APS-C will be abandoned, leaving only consumer-grade updates for that format. I don't think even Pentax/Ricoh knows the answer to that for certain at this point. I think it will depend on two things: -- How well Pentax Full-Frame sells, both bodies and lenses, and: -- To what extent those are truly new sales vs. cannibalized enthusiast-grade APS-C sales. In the short term, I think there will be a lot of truly new sales, to people who would not have bought Pentax APS-C, and to people who have already bought Pentax APS-C. But in the long term, I think a high proportion of Pentax Full-Frame sales will cannibalize Pentax enthusiast-grade APS-C sales. When and if that pattern is established, I think Pentax will decide that a true upgrade to the K-3 ii doesn't make economic sense -- too few buyers interested, since so many will have switched to Pentax Full Frame. Maybe we'll see a K-3 iii minor update, but no true upgrade. But I think we will see the K-3 ii (or iii or whatever) soldier on for a long time, as a symbolic halo for the APS-C line, long after it is selling in significant numbers, just as the ist D was available long after it was competitive, until it was replaced by the K10D. Another reason to think that there will be no true APS-C K-3 replacement is that the naming seems to point to the K-1 being the replacement for the K-3 (K-7, then K-5, then K-3, then K-1). But with the high end of the old K-3 market now buying the K-1, and with the K-S1 market basically unchanged, that will leave a different market for the K-S2 replacement. In addition to the old K-30/K-50/K-S2 market, it will still have to serve what had been the low end, maybe the lower half or more, of the old K-3 market. To sell the most cameras to that group, Pentax will want to hit the middle of that market. That would mean something between* a K-S2 replacement and a true K-3 replacement. Since most of the old K-3 market is not keen on the high-fashion aesthetics of the K-S2, that camera will probably look more like an update to the K-50. Besides aesthetics, in what ways will that camera be more like a K-3 update than a K-S2 update? Probably in whatever ways Pentax thinks most of that low end of the old K-3 market will demand in order to buy it. Here are my guesses: -- Sensor. I think we'll see ISO higher than the K-3's 51,200, and FPS not less than the K-3's 8.3. And it will be a better sensor than the K-S1's replacement, which can and should continue to use a low-cost sensor. -- Buffer. Not less than the K-3. -- Write speed. Not less than the K-3. -- AF speed, points, etc. I think this will come from the K-1. -- Bracketing And here's what I think will be more like a K-S2 replacement: -- A pop-up flash rather than the K-3's GPS, or maybe something else entirely if ISO does go up. Hybrid viewfinder? -- No magnesium alloy body -- The LDC will tilt (like a K-S2, not like a K-1). -- Max shutter speed -- USB 2.0, not 3.0 -- Flash settings If they don't do that, and instead replace the K-S2 with a straightforward K-S2 upgrade with no nod to K-3 owners that don't want to upgrade to Full Frame, then the low end of the old K-3 market will be cast adrift. Some will downgrade eventually to a K-S2 replacement, but many will start looking at other brands, especially well-established mirrorless APS-C and micro 4/3 lines. I will be surprised if Pentax lets that happen, when it would be so easy to keep most of those customers by moving the K-S2 replacement somewhat upmarket. Regarding lenses, I think the only new enthusiast-grade APS-C lenses we should expect to see in the long-term future is wide-angle and medium zooms. For enthusiast-grade primes and telephoto zooms, I think long-term the enthusiast APS-C crowd will be expected to buy future full-frame lenses or make do with existing models. Last edited by GregL65; 03-17-2016 at 03:45 PM.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Don't forget your extended warranties! (US Members)	Adam	Pentax Price Watch	20	03-22-2014 10:27 PM
Don't forget to change the time on your camera	Just1MoreDave	Photographic Industry and Professionals	7	03-14-2014 07:02 PM
Don't forget about us in Canada Ricoh!	Dr_who	Pentax K-3 & K-3 II	46	11-22-2013 09:06 PM
Don't Forget	Rickster	Pentax News and Rumors	17	01-23-2008 09:16 AM
My Dear, Dear Friends: Don't Do This.	Mike Cash	Pentax SLR Lens Discussion	54	12-07-2007 11:08 PM

02-26-2016, 12:49 PM - 1 Like	#16
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by apete Besides... if bigger sensor is so so so freaking good, why have not we all yet moved to 645Z????? $$$$$ ?????? Steve

02-26-2016, 01:41 PM - 1 Like	#18
mikeSF Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: East Bay Area, CA Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,620	no concerns here whatsoever and I plan on staying with my K3II and the APS-C platform for a good while to come. I'd guess the large majority of units sold will continue to be in the enthusiast/semi-pro category where a <$1K price point of an APS-C body makes perfect sense.

02-26-2016, 02:27 PM	#19
pathdoc Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2015 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,381	It is easier to fit an APS-C sensor in an existing FF body than it is to fit a FF sensor in an existing APS-C body. I have no doubt that the trickling down of FF tech will come, but Pentax needs to concentrate on filling FF order demands first. The KS-2 and K3/K3-II are both sufficiently new that no immediate replacement is called for, but I imagine the engineers want to see how their tech performs in the field before putting it in another camera.

02-26-2016, 04:28 PM	#21
jpzk Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Québec Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,251	Originally posted by Ilovemypentax If Pentax wants to make something different they should make the following... Leica rangefinder knockoff FF 36-40 mp for $2500. M43 simplified with shutter dial. A 6mp FF digital back for a Hassy for $2500 Seriously ??

02-26-2016, 05:29 PM	#22
filoxophy Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Albuquerque Posts: 1,132	Originally posted by jpzk Seriously ?? I took it as a joke...

02-26-2016, 09:03 PM	#23
beachgardener Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,842	Originally posted by boriscleto The K-S2 already has a tilt screen. I don't see why any future APS-C wouldn't have one too. yeah for sure, in fact, I prefer the articulated type of screen of the K-S2 to the flippy type screen found on the K-1.

02-26-2016, 09:26 PM - 1 Like	#24
mee Veteran Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 7,403	Originally posted by savoche In the mean time several new APS-C bodies have cropped up..... 'APS-C' ... 'cropped up' ahh photography humor.

02-26-2016, 09:38 PM	#25
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by boriscleto The K-S2 already has a tilt screen. I don't see why any future APS-C wouldn't have one too. I should probably edit to say the nifty, innovative, and unique (and very thick) rear LCD. It is a little bulky to put on a smaller body, but that is just my opinion. Steve (...might also add that after having owned cameras with the swing-out type, it is not a feature I would pay extra for...tend to be fragile...)

02-26-2016, 09:42 PM	#26
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by filoxophy I took it as a joke... Me too... Steve

02-27-2016, 01:08 AM	#27
savoche Master of the obvious Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Lowlands of Norway Posts: 18,311	Originally posted by mee 'APS-C' ... 'cropped up' ahh photography humor. Ah. No pun intended

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

02-27-2016, 04:42 AM	#28
Not a Number Moderator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Venice, CA Posts: 10,526	So there we have it. In the PF CP+ interview Ricoh said they will continue to develop APS-C. Among the virtues for doing so is faster FPS.

03-10-2016, 04:44 AM	#30
totsmuyco Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Iloilo City Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,276	I would presume that Pentax will end the APS-C line if there will be some new format that will make APS-C obsolete. But I still believe that as long as there will be a demand for a high end APS-C camera, Pentax will continue to fill it up. I for one am not willing to buy into a full frame system and I still like to have compact APS-C cameras with the level of the K-3II to replace my cameras in the future. I wouldn't be surprised it the K-3 line will be the high end APS-C for quite some time. I also think only minor upgrades will be made on this system. But who knows, maybe we'll see an APS-C similar to the D500.