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06-18-2016, 08:36 AM   #271
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There was a pent up demand for the K1 so one would expect it's sales to be strong right now. Biz it is you that is bringing in the dollar value to the discussion. It will cost me 2500 Cdn to buy the K1 and nothing to keep using the K5iis. That is a difference of 2500 Cdn. I am sure that the K 70 will also sale good plus lots of people are satisfied with their K5 and K3 models.

You are not the first person to try to prove that FF is less expensive then crop sensor cameras and like others before you there is the need for all kinds of assumptions to be built into your model for that to work.

No one is saying the K1 is a camera not worth the cost, what I am saying and bow I read Nicolas and others is it is not worth it to us personally to spend that money on it. I do not see how spending money on a new camera and maybe a new lens saves me money over not buying it. Maybe when the replacement for the K 70 replacement comes out I will need to rethink my position. And I could get by without any new lenses for either system.

06-18-2016, 01:10 PM - 1 Like   #272
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
Sorry to say, but K3 is only 1 APSC model there K200, K20, K10, Kx, K7, K30, K50, K5 and so on and on.
What does matter is not if the K1 sells more than all previous camera cumulated over several year. For a company what does matter is how much revenue per product per quarter. And in this respect, K1 already beat every other product, at least since the K5 was released. A lot of people having a K5 did not buy a K3 because there was not enough improvement, however, a lot of them already bought a K1 because the spending appear to be less wasted then a K5 to K3 upgrade (K5 -> K3 = 16Mpixel to 24 smaller Mpixels), while K5 to K1 is basically more than double the pixel count and double the sensor area.
06-20-2016, 10:14 AM   #273
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
Indoor
Just a side note (nothing to do with this thread). I'm surprised that you can post photos of foreign people over pentax forum and flickr, do you ask them for agreement or you just photograph people and post their photos? I never post photos in public places without due consent from photographed persons. But maybe I'm wrong.
06-20-2016, 10:40 AM   #274
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Just a side note (nothing to do with this thread). I'm surprised that you can post photos of foreign people over pentax forum and flickr, do you ask them for agreement or you just photograph people and post their photos? I never post photos in public places without due consent from photographed persons. But maybe I'm wrong.
In the UK (and probably in other European countries), you can freely take photographs of people as long as you are in a public area. They can be on private land and the photographer on a public highway and that's fine too. No need to ask permission to take or upload to an on-line site. You can also use them commercially. However, there is, like so many things it seems, a drifting over from across the pond in attitudes to people shots and the need to ask, but we are not there yet, thankfully !

06-20-2016, 10:46 AM   #275
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Just a side note (nothing to do with this thread). I'm surprised that you can post photos of foreign people over pentax forum and flickr, do you ask them for agreement or you just photograph people and post their photos? I never post photos in public places without due consent from photographed persons. But maybe I'm wrong.
At least in the U.S., you don't need a model release as long as you're not doing commercial photography (where 'commercial' means stock photography or ads, basically).
06-20-2016, 11:38 AM   #276
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QuoteOriginally posted by BarryE Quote
In the UK (and probably in other European countries), you can freely take photographs of people as long as you are in a public area. They can be on private land and the photographer on a public highway and that's fine too. No need to ask permission to take or upload to an on-line site. You can also use them commercially. However, there is, like so many things it seems, a drifting over from across the pond in attitudes to people shots and the need to ask, but we are not there yet, thankfully !
QuoteOriginally posted by lithedreamer Quote
At least in the U.S., you don't need a model release as long as you're not doing commercial photography (where 'commercial' means stock photography or ads, basically).
I did not know that. Thanks.
06-20-2016, 11:00 PM   #277
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
What does matter is not if the K1 sells more than all previous camera cumulated over several year. For a company what does matter is how much revenue per product per quarter. And in this respect, K1 already beat every other product, at least since the K5 was released. A lot of people having a K5 did not buy a K3 because there was not enough improvement, however, a lot of them already bought a K1 because the spending appear to be less wasted then a K5 to K3 upgrade (K5 -> K3 = 16Mpixel to 24 smaller Mpixels), while K5 to K1 is basically more than double the pixel count and double the sensor area.
- We do not know actual sales figures yet. Extrapolating from forum member is dangerous as the population of this forum is not representative. To me people are less likely to subscribe to Pentax forum if they just buy a K50 for their vacation than if they love to discuss gear (for example).
- Sales over a quarter is short term and may not recoup the investment over the years as well as paying the employees. To draw tendencies such as market share of APSC vs FF, there no point to take Pentax only and there no point to take this quater only.
06-21-2016, 02:09 AM   #278
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QuoteOriginally posted by lithedreamer Quote
At least in the U.S., you don't need a model release as long as you're not doing commercial photography (where 'commercial' means stock photography or ads, basically).
Australia is similar.

Unless there is some specific local rule, there's no legal recourse to being photographed unless you want to sue the tog for defamation.

Good luck with that!



06-21-2016, 02:33 AM - 1 Like   #279
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Australia is similar.

Unless there is some specific local rule, there's no legal recourse to being photographed unless you want to sue the tog for defamation.

Good luck with that!
Same here. Although I did get verbally attacked by some woman on the beach as I was photographing my own children, and only my own children.
She marched over to me and wanted to know who gave me the right to photograph the kids. I simply and politely replied "They're my kids." She stood around for a bit with a scowl and her arms folded and then strutted off. No doubt flummoxed somewhat with that reply.
06-21-2016, 02:34 AM   #280
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Oh - and when I can afford it, I'll get a K-1. I'm usually a late adopter, so I'm in no rush. When I do get a K-1, the K-5 will become a backup camera.
06-21-2016, 03:02 AM   #281
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
- We do not know actual sales figures yet. Extrapolating from forum member is dangerous as the population of this forum is not representative. To me people are less likely to subscribe to Pentax forum if they just buy a K50 for their vacation than if they love to discuss gear (for example).
- Sales over a quarter is short term and may not recoup the investment over the years as well as paying the employees. To draw tendencies such as market share of APSC vs FF, there no point to take Pentax only and there no point to take this quater only.
I think the only conclusions we could draw are:
A. Ricoh Imaging targeted low sales volumes (the initial production being of a mere 7,000 units/month)

B. As expected, the demand was far greater than the production. It's IMO safe to say so, because:
- Ricoh Imaging still can't supply enough of them; it's past mid-June and they couldn't cover the initial preorders (at least, not everywhere). I was able to buy the K10D and the K-5 right away after it started selling; yet I'm still waiting for my K-1.
- while the Kumamoto earthquates might had an impact, this wasn't until after a few months of K-1's production. Ricoh Imaging published their note on "some impact on the future production" at the end of May.

So far, the K-1 - very likely - exceeded the expectations. It's not the first Pentax to do so - remember the 645z's demand being double the estimate?
And this is what matters.
06-21-2016, 05:17 AM   #282
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I had a K-01, bought a K-3II almost a year ago and just bought a K-1. Can't wait!
06-21-2016, 05:21 AM   #283
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If one looks at the Canon and Nikon worlds, the number of APs-c shooters switching to the K-1 will be somewhere between 5% and 10%. And it will take a few years to get there. The vast majority of Pentax shooters are probably currently shooting with K-30s K-50s, K-S1s, or K-S2s. Despite the current K-1 hoopla, that's not going to change.

Despite the enthusiasm of many, for most, it's going to come down to a the best combination price vs performance.. Th K-1 will fall into the category of the premium system at a premium price. The K-1 however does offer the best price performance if you don't go for the premium lenses. It has an advantage over it's Canikon brothers and sisters in that, for an extra few hundred bucks an APS-c shooter can get a huge performance bonus as long as they have some old film glass lying around. The K-1 offers by far the most cost effective path into full frame for entry level users. Especially with the plastic fantastics on board. Essentially the K-1 with a the DA35 DA 50 and 28-105 or 60-250 is your standard K-1000 type kit.

You make that jump with a Nikon and you get a D610, with Canon you get a 6D. Both represent a fraction of the potential of a K-1.

Last edited by normhead; 06-21-2016 at 05:46 AM.
06-21-2016, 06:10 AM   #284
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Th K-1 will fall into the category of the premium system at a premium price. The K-1 however does offer the best price performance if you don't go for the premium lenses. It has an advantage over it's Canikon brothers and sisters in that, for an extra few hundred bucks an APS-c shooter can get a huge performance bonus as long as they have some old film glass lying around. The K-1 offers by far the most cost effective path into full frame for entry level users. Especially with the plastic fantastics on board. Essentially the K-1 with a the DA35 DA 50 and 28-105 or 60-250 is your standard K-1000 type kit. You make that jump with a Nikon and you get a D610, with Canon you get a 6D. Both represent a fraction of the potential of a K-1.
I made a cost comparison between Pentax FF f2.8 offering, and Nikon (haven't considered Canon). My conclusion was that Pentax K1 with f2.8 premium glass is still about 30% cheaper than D810 with Nikon f2.8 VR glass. Nikon VR f2.8 glass is expensive. So the only way to get cheaper with Nikon is D750 or D610 + non VR f4 Nikon glass , or Tamron f2.8 VC. Cheapest is D610+Tamron VCs, Pentax K1 system with f2.8 glass is priced in the middle, and most expensive being D810+Nikon VR glass. Pentax K1 is the "cheapest" 36Mp offer, but if you don't need 36Mp, 6D/D610 + 3 x Tamron VC is way cheaper. Not having access to Tamron VC zooms in K mount can be a serious limiting factor for the K1, except for people already having K mount FF glass. Having FF lenses or not makes a huge difference in the total cost.
06-21-2016, 06:21 AM   #285
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
I made a cost comparison between Pentax FF f2.8 offering, and Nikon (haven't considered Canon). My conclusion was that Pentax K1 with f2.8 premium glass is still about 30% cheaper than D810 with Nikon f2.8 VR glass. Nikon VR f2.8 glass is expensive. So the only way to get cheaper with Nikon is D750 or D610 + non VR f4 Nikon glass , or Tamron f2.8 VC. Cheapest is D610+Tamron VCs, Pentax K1 system with f2.8 glass is priced in the middle, and most expensive being D810+Nikon VR glass. Pentax K1 is the "cheapest" 36Mp offer, but if you don't need 36Mp, 6D/D610 + 3 x Tamron VC is way cheaper. Not having access to Tamron VC zooms in K mount can be a serious limiting factor for the K1, except for people already having K mount FF glass. Having FF lenses or not makes a huge difference in the total cost.
Are you forgetting that on Pentax you don't need VR for your Tamron 70-200? I'm not even looking at the 36 MP. I'm looking high/ low noise performance to boost shutter speeds, in body SR for my older glass, and that flippy screen and GPS. For resolution a 6D doesn't even measure up to my K-3. It's not in the picture and would be a serious downgrade to my K-3, not an upgrade.

The only cost cost comparison for me will be the difference between the next APS-C and the K-1.

I'm hoping the next APS-c will continue to push the frame rate to say 10 FPS, have a flippy screen, have pixels shift, and be 28 MP., and have improved tracking possibly using the K-1 AF system and GPS. IF it has all those things it's going to be a tough call on my next upgrade. It's a tough call with the K-3 at 24 MP. With a K-? at 28 MP, or 30 MP, I think the balance at least for me falls back in favour of the APS_c sensor.

I'm the type of shooter who is happy to trade low light performance for magnification in good light.
Essentially 24 MP on APS-c gives the potential for more magnification than 36 MP on the K-1 with the same lens.
28-30 MP on APs-c would push APS-c back "over the top." if they can maintain the current 24 MP ISO/noise performance.
28-30 MP on APS-c would once again pass the Canon 51 MP camera in that metric as well.

---------- Post added 06-21-16 at 09:55 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by MarkJerling Quote
Same here. Although I did get verbally attacked by some woman on the beach as I was photographing my own children, and only my own children.
She marched over to me and wanted to know who gave me the right to photograph the kids. I simply and politely replied "They're my kids." She stood around for a bit with a scowl and her arms folded and then strutted off. No doubt flummoxed somewhat with that reply.
Next time, ask her, "Who gave you the right to intrude on our time together as a family?"

Last edited by normhead; 06-21-2016 at 06:56 AM.
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