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03-17-2016, 06:18 PM - 1 Like   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by a5m Quote
my lack of experience is making it difficult for me to think of a reason why Av is preferred over P mode.
You certainly deserve an answer that isn't over the top condescending and uninformed. One good reason could be that we develop idiosyncrasies in how we set our cameras and changing those habits results in lots of bad pictures. One person's idiosyncrasies aren't better or worse than those of someone else. If your routine is to approach every shot with aperture as your key setting and you don't want the camera to forget your selected aperture if you happen to manually change the shutter speed (which happens in P mode), then Av mode might be more suitable for you. If I have both an aperture and a shutter speed I want to stick with, I'll use the TAv mode instead of P mode. But if you approach a shot with no preconceptions, hyper P mode is great and if you have to quickly whip out your camera to get the fluke shot your relatives will rave about, leaving the mode dial on P when you set the camera down is a real bonus.

My biggest problem is inadvertently turning my K-30 to video mode when I put the camera in the bag, and wondering why the mirror is up when I next turn the camera on. I could easily fix my problem by getting into the habit of looking at the mode dial every time I take it out of the bag. The only other idiosyncratic behaviour in other people that I'll rant on is the fixation on locking down ISO. Pentax cameras are programmed to only go above ISO 200 if necessary to get a proper exposure. If presented with a choice of not getting a picture because you are afraid of high ISO noise or getting a noisy picture with limited dynamic range, take the damn picture.

03-17-2016, 07:45 PM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by RGlasel Quote
Same here. Sightseeing is much more efficient if you keeping moving, you can ruin your trip and that of your companions if you spend too much time setting up your photo shooting. You should always check f-stop and shutter in your viewfinder regardless, just to make sure you don't waste the moment on badly exposed images, but what you need to adjust isn't the same in every instance. Sometimes there just isn't time to figure out what f-stop and/or shutter speed will best capture your mind's eye view, or your mind gets addled at inopportune times. Hypermode is so simple and effective I don't know how well I would cope with a camera that didn't have this feature.
RGlasel
Exactly, that was my point...when sightseeing, no one wants to wait for you to compose the picture....

---------- Post added 03-17-16 at 07:48 PM ----------

Thank you everyone, your comments have been very helpful. I asked the question because I have gravitated this week to using AV mode, but thought since Aperature settings are associated with DOF, and often I could careless about DOF, that maybe I was missing something. But my images have been much more consistently good using AV mode...
03-17-2016, 09:22 PM - 1 Like   #48
a5m
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QuoteOriginally posted by Alex645 Quote
P, or Program, allows the camera to chose both the aperture and shutter speed. It is a safe mode for a safe exposure, but the photographer is essentially pointing, maybe focusing, and shooting.

With Av, the photographer that wants to do more than point, focus, and shoot, is making an intentional decision on what they want to do with their Aperture Value (a.k.a. f/stop). On a kit lens, if I want to shoot a portrait at 55mm, setting the aperture at f/4 (the lowest number=largest aperture) will give me shallow depth-of-field with my subject in focus and the background out of focus with maybe nice bokeh. Secondary advantages of this include the ability to shoot in lower light, lower ISO, faster shutter speeds. (In Av, the camera will automatically set your shutter speed for a normal exposure based on you ISO and aperture settings)

If, however, I want and need great depth of field, I can set the aperture to f/16 or f/22, and the camera will automatically lower my shutter speed for a normal exposure. OR I don't give a rip about my depth of field; if it is too shallow, it may not be very sharp, could be issues with chromatic aberration, and I could miss critical focus; if it is too great, I'll suffer more diffraction and less sharpness. So with Av and setting it to typically about 2EVs from the largest aperture (around f/4-5.6 on f/2-2.8 lens or around f/8-f/9.5 on an f/3.5-5.6 lens) I will get the sharpest IQ, least CA, etc, of the lens at that aperture.

Of course, I shouldn't ignore what is happening with my shutter speed, but it is secondary when I'm using Av.

I suspect most folks using P are simply not aware of all the nuances of high and low ISO, aperture, and shutter speeds, and just want an average exposure that wasn't messed up because when they tried to use M, they made too many mistakes. With Av your control dial is your way of intentionally using a specific f/stop and the camera will set the SS for you. Makes sense?
I guess I came across as a total noob here . But I am honestly still at the beginner level and have yet to learn the advantages of shooting in Av or any other mode. Your explanation did help my understanding and it did make sense. Some people who have a lot of experience or have been shooting since the film days have a good understanding of how all the different parameters work together and prefer to set them manually. I respect that and hope to reach that level myself, even if I still end up preferring P mode . I am slowly learning and want to at least know what my camera is doing.

My main focus when I started shooting was on aperture, so even in P mode I would change around the aperture and play with DOF. I'm also limiting my ISO to 3200 in most cases, but now I'm caring about it less after seeing the results that I'm getting. What I have not focused much on is shutter speed, but hope to get better at setting it as time goes on.

QuoteOriginally posted by RGlasel Quote
You certainly deserve an answer that isn't over the top condescending and uninformed. One good reason could be that we develop idiosyncrasies in how we set our cameras and changing those habits results in lots of bad pictures. One person's idiosyncrasies aren't better or worse than those of someone else. If your routine is to approach every shot with aperture as your key setting and you don't want the camera to forget your selected aperture if you happen to manually change the shutter speed (which happens in P mode), then Av mode might be more suitable for you. If I have both an aperture and a shutter speed I want to stick with, I'll use the TAv mode instead of P mode. But if you approach a shot with no preconceptions, hyper P mode is great and if you have to quickly whip out your camera to get the fluke shot your relatives will rave about, leaving the mode dial on P when you set the camera down is a real bonus.

My biggest problem is inadvertently turning my K-30 to video mode when I put the camera in the bag, and wondering why the mirror is up when I next turn the camera on. I could easily fix my problem by getting into the habit of looking at the mode dial every time I take it out of the bag. The only other idiosyncratic behaviour in other people that I'll rant on is the fixation on locking down ISO. Pentax cameras are programmed to only go above ISO 200 if necessary to get a proper exposure. If presented with a choice of not getting a picture because you are afraid of high ISO noise or getting a noisy picture with limited dynamic range, take the damn picture.
Thanks RGlasel for your response. I completely agree with what you said about idiosyncrasies. I get that sense from reading some responses that people have just gotten used to the way they do things. Which like you said isn't a bad thing, it's just that people come into it in their own way. I understand what you mean about the aperture changing if you change the shutter speed, even if you're manually setting it in P mode. If you like to control both of these parameters separately I can see how Av gives you that advantage. I'm not looking at shutter speeds too much right now so P mode works great for me.

I get what you're saying about ISO and noise too, and can agree that it seems to maybe be a bit overrated. I initially was worried about noise but quickly realized it wasn't too big of a deal. I know it also depends on the camera but like you said, I rather "take the damn picture" than miss the shot .

Very good information in this thread. Sorry if I hijacked your thread jackloganbill. It was a very good thread you started and I hope you and others were able to benefit from it like I did.
03-17-2016, 11:20 PM   #49
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Av, mode, except when I'm not in Av mode.
;-)

03-18-2016, 04:39 AM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by rglasel Quote
if presented with a choice of not getting a picture because you are afraid of high iso noise or getting a noisy picture with limited dynamic range, take the damn picture.
Yes, this, so much.
03-18-2016, 04:42 AM   #51
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AV or M modes for me - I remember when I bought the K-50 and easing off of 'auto'...... seems like a lifetime ago....
03-18-2016, 08:02 AM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by a5m Quote
Can someone who had enough time with P and Av mode, and then chose to use Av mode, explain why they did so?
Alex645 and PGlasel have explained it quite well. It's a mix of controling your DOF (or using the lens on its sweet spot) and locking this setting. If you're taking a series of shot, this will lead to better consistency between them and, on the long term, much more reproducible results.

For example, if you know that, for given lens, you prefer portraits taken at f4. If you have some portraits to take, it just makes more sense to use Av mode at f4 and takes your shots than using P mode and correcting to f4 between each one, or accepting less pleasing and variable results because P mode will change the aperture between shots...

You can apply the same reasoning for almost any situations... With some experience, you will know that for a give situations, with the lens you're using, there's an aperture that will consistenly produce results that you like. Then, it just makes sense to use this setting than letting the camera takes this decision...
03-18-2016, 08:40 AM   #53
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Another vote here for hyper-P, which usually shifts to hyper-Av via the rear e-dial unless I want the MTF program line. Hyper-Tv for them long lens.

03-18-2016, 08:09 PM   #54
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Almost always Av with manual ISO to keep the shutter speed reasonable. If I'm taking a sequence of shots to create a panoramic image, I'll meter across the image and shoot in M based on the average metering.
03-19-2016, 03:16 AM   #55
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really depends on the light and situation, I might have the camera in Av mode, I can quickly take shots if needed with a pre set idea of what ISO I want, if the light is difficult or I want to concentrate more on the exposure mainly use M mode with incident readings, on occasions I move to Tv for slower or faster shutter, take readings as the light changes to be in tune with what is happening.
03-21-2016, 11:19 AM   #56
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Continued great replies and information....
12-26-2016, 09:33 PM   #57
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Should be required reading for newbies. I'm reading!
12-26-2016, 10:06 PM   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Av mode 90% of the time. M or X in the studio depending on lighting setup. TAv if shooting birds.
Same here I guess it a fall back from film days
12-27-2016, 03:11 AM   #59
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Av for normal stuff.... then a user setting for Bird in flight stuff that is TAV with like F8 and 1/1000 and floating iso..... if I see a bird I know its five clicks on the dial and shoot without thinking to much (user setting has other presets off course). M for old K glass and other technical stuff from time to time.

I have a user mode for AV "every day" as well.... that just sets most things to normal for a quick shot.... in case I left AV with some weird settings last time I turned the camera off (eg focus points etc)......I'm hopeless like that.

My thinking is mostly always DOF, then balance of shutter speed v's ISO to suit the situation.

Last edited by noelpolar; 12-27-2016 at 03:27 AM.
12-27-2016, 04:25 AM   #60
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I tend to use P for speed, two dials... as I'm usually winging it at the time of taking.
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