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03-28-2016, 10:30 PM   #1
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Pentax K-1 crop modes

Since most owners of apsc lenses don't only own crop lenses but obviously own apsc camera body such as K-30/K50/K5/K3 series, why would you need crop modes on a full frame camera.
If you wanted to use crop lenses, just mount them on you apsc dslr. Unless the FF camera had higher FPS and/or much better AF module, what's the fuzz about have crop modes on a FF body?

03-28-2016, 10:37 PM   #2
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There are a lot of benefits!

Pixel shift, ISO benefits, improved sensor technology, built-in GPS/astrotracer, ergonomic benefits of having the 3rd control wheel, portability and only having to carry one body on a hike or photo walk, new generation of shake reduction, tilt screen for improved body positioning or visibility, continuity of user profile modes U1/U2/etc, wifi capabilities, quicker (barely) flash sync speed, external mic jack if you're a K-50/K-30/K-7/K-500 user, increased number of autofocus points (conceding that you ruled out the AF module itself), capability of adding a battery grip when your K-50/K-30/K-500 may not have one, and getting to know your new camera with the same familiarity that you know your APS-C one?
03-28-2016, 10:41 PM   #3
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Also using crop mode with any lenses will yield higher FPS in continuous shooting modes.
03-28-2016, 10:42 PM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Since most owners of apsc lenses don't only own crop lenses but obviously own apsc camera body such as K-30/K50/K5/K3 series, why would you need crop modes on a full frame camera.
If you wanted to use crop lenses, just mount them on you apsc dslr. Unless the FF camera had higher FPS and/or much better AF module, what's the fuzz about have crop modes on a FF body?
So that you don't have to deal with dark corners manually in case you ended up using an APS-C lens.


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03-28-2016, 10:44 PM   #5
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  1. Only need to carry one camera with a collection of FF and APS-C lenses
  2. Superior low light performance
  3. Superior 5-stop SR
  4. Tides you over till you can afford more FF lenses
  5. Inability to live without the DA15, especially since there is no (compact) equivalent in D FA,
and the others pointed out above.
03-28-2016, 10:56 PM   #6
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I doubt I will ever use "crop" lenses on FF. Just personal opinion.
03-28-2016, 11:33 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by disasterfilm Quote
ISO benefits, improved sensor technology,
QuoteOriginally posted by Paul the Sunman Quote
Superior low light performance
When you crop, there is no superior low light / ISO benefit, because the said benefit come from using a larger light gathering area if the full frame sensor. Cropping = getting back to APSC camera, heavier and slower body. IMO, the whole point of using a FF camera is to use lenses having FF image circle (theory). I was posting this thread just in case someone saw a practical benefit in using crop mode (e.g from D800), that I did not see.

QuoteOriginally posted by Paul the Sunman Quote
Tides you over till you can afford more FF lenses
Yes, that may be the main argument , to help users transition from APSC to FF.

---------- Post added 29-03-16 at 08:35 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by HYS Quote
I doubt I will ever use "crop" lenses on FF. Just personal opinion.
Same here. I imagine if I have both FF and APSC body, I'll decide at home which one I take depending on what I plan to photograph and the choice of lenses that I have.

Actually there's one case where I'd interested in crop mode: using ff mode or crop mode with a long lens to extend its range on use (sort of digital zoom), while trading-off on IQ.
Crop mode would allow more zoom range with a DFA150-450, which would cover 150mm to 1.5x450=675mm. But that's about the only practical benefit that I see right now.
By using / not using crop mode, and using ff lenses, crop mode could extend the range covered by those lenses, so you could get away with using less lenses (save money on the lenses), which can be a real benefit.

Last edited by biz-engineer; 03-28-2016 at 11:42 PM.
03-28-2016, 11:49 PM   #8
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The published specs (http://us.ricoh-imaging.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/K-1-Specifications.pdf):
[35mmFull Frame]
Max. approx. 4.4 fps, JPEG ( L: at Continuous H): up to approx. 70 frames, RAW: up to approx. 17 frames
Max. approx. 3.0 fps, JPEG L: at Continuous M): up to approx. 100 frames, RAW: up to approx. 20 frames
Max. approx. 0.7 fps, JPEG ( L: at Continuous L): up to approx. 100 frames, RAW: up to approx. 100 frames
[APS-C size]
Max. approx. 6.5 fps, JPEG ( L: at Continuous H): up to approx. 100 frames, RAW: up to approx. 50 frames
Max. approx. 3.0 fps, JPEG L: at Continuous M): up to approx. 100 frames, RAW: up to approx. 70 frames
Max. approx. 1.0 fps, JPEG ( L: at Continuous L): up to approx. 100 frames, RAW: up to approx. 100 frames
*ISO100

Crop mode would also affect Matrix and Center Weighted Metering. Instead of metering for a front lighting light subject against dark background it would ignore the sections outside the crop area or use a smaller center area.


Last edited by Not a Number; 03-29-2016 at 12:20 AM.
03-28-2016, 11:56 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
When you crop, there is no superior low light / ISO benefit, because the said benefit come from using a larger light gathering area if the full frame sensor. Cropping = getting back to APSC camera, heavier and slower body. IMO, the whole point of using a FF camera is to use lenses having FF image circle (theory). I was posting this thread just in case someone saw a practical benefit in using crop mode (e.g from D800), that I did not see.
*"there is no superior low light / ISO benefit" Can you tell me what is the difference from cropping with the K1 to selecting the same detail in Photoshop from the FF picture. In both cases the object has the same size on the sensor. Therefore all benefits of the technology of the ff camera will be applied.

Your arguments may be right, when you in both cases the object fills the full format of the according sensor.


* "heavier body" , I'm using the K3 with an battery-grip, the K1 without one - heavier??
* "slower body" technical correct how often have you used the full frame rate of the K3 - when your are using AF-C this will come done
* using lenses with an interesting bokeh, which are not available at the moment for FF
03-29-2016, 12:28 AM   #10
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In addition to the upper said I have found that my K-3 (or most of the APS-C) gives very beautiful pictures in the closer distances.
All my experiences with FF cameras showed me excellent results even for closer and distant objects.
Please, this is again just personal opinion.
03-29-2016, 01:07 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by Not a Number Quote
Crop mode would also affect Matrix and Center Weighted Metering. Instead of metering for a front lighting light subject against dark background it would ignore the sections outside the crop area or use a smaller center area.
If so, that a relevant point indeed.

---------- Post added 29-03-16 at 10:13 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by joergens.mi Quote
* "heavier body" , I'm using the K3 with an battery-grip, the K1 without one - heavier??
you have to compare apple to apple: K3+grip and K1+grip.

QuoteOriginally posted by joergens.mi Quote
* "slower body" technical correct how often have you used the full frame rate of the K3 - when your are using AF-C this will come done
K3 FPS is approx 8, I use it for fast moving subject when it is not possible to press the shutter at the right pose, i.e sport or other quick moving subjects, then select only the pleasant subject expression among a dozen of frames.

QuoteOriginally posted by joergens.mi Quote
* using lenses with an interesting bokeh, which are not available at the moment for FF
Well, if you have an apsc body that you use with lenses having an interesting bokeh, why would you use a ff body then?
03-29-2016, 02:20 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Since most owners of apsc lenses don't only own crop lenses but obviously own apsc camera body such as K-30/K50/K5/K3 series, why would you need crop modes on a full frame camera.
If you wanted to use crop lenses, just mount them on you apsc dslr. Unless the FF camera had higher FPS and/or much better AF module, what's the fuzz about have crop modes on a FF body?
And walk around with two cameras all the time in case I would like to use an APS-C lens. I think I will pass on that idea.
03-29-2016, 02:36 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
When you crop, there is no superior low light / ISO benefit, because the said benefit come from using a larger light gathering area if the full frame sensor. Cropping = getting back to APSC camera, heavier and slower body. IMO, the whole point of using a FF camera is to use lenses having FF image circle (theory). I was posting this thread just in case someone saw a practical benefit in using crop mode (e.g from D800), that I did not see.


Yes, that may be the main argument , to help users transition from APSC to FF.

---------- Post added 29-03-16 at 08:35 ----------


Same here. I imagine if I have both FF and APSC body, I'll decide at home which one I take depending on what I plan to photograph and the choice of lenses that I have.

Actually there's one case where I'd interested in crop mode: using ff mode or crop mode with a long lens to extend its range on use (sort of digital zoom), while trading-off on IQ.
Crop mode would allow more zoom range with a DFA150-450, which would cover 150mm to 1.5x450=675mm. But that's about the only practical benefit that I see right now.
By using / not using crop mode, and using ff lenses, crop mode could extend the range covered by those lenses, so you could get away with using less lenses (save money on the lenses), which can be a real benefit.
"Crop mode would allow more zoom range with a DFA150-450, which would cover 150mm to 1.5x450=675mm."

Read more at: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/6-pentax-dslr-discussion/317655-pentax-k-1-crop-modes.html#ixzz44HaszGBj"

I think you make mistake. Using the FF lense in crop mode will not increase zoom range, because magnification of the image will be the same (450 mm allways is 450 mm), you just get narrower field of view that corresponds to 675 mm lense.

The same explanation here:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/10-pentax-slr-lens-discussion/317652-plea...asurments.html

Last edited by Medex; 03-29-2016 at 02:44 AM.
03-29-2016, 03:03 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by Medex Quote
I think you make mistake. Using the FF lense in crop mode will not increase zoom range, because magnification of the image will be the same (450 mm allways is 450 mm), you just get narrower field of view that corresponds to 675 mm lense.
Yes, I know this, it's a no brainer. I don't know what the fuzz about making a difference between angle of view and 35 equivalent focal length. No matter how you word it, i.e 35mm focal length equivalent or field of view, the framed image is the same. Magnification has however a different meaning (no to be confused with x zoom), for lenses, the maximum geometric ratio of subject size to image size falling on sensor: e.g magnification of x1 for macro lenses.
03-29-2016, 03:07 AM   #15
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Crop mode should also make the AF coverage wider too.
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