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04-05-2016, 02:19 AM   #1
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Back to Pentax. What telephoto lens with K1?

Hi there.
I posted on this forum several times before and didn't think that I will be posting again. At least not this soon. I had an K5 IIs and K3 II with several lenses. Loved everything about the gear, feel of it, ergonomics, solid built, weather resistance, colour and on and on. Belonging to Pentax family is also a great feeling. One thing I was not impressed with was AF tracking. When I came to the point I had to make a decision I sold all of my Pentax gear and invested in some Sony E mount. Sony is good, does most of the things right but I was constantly coming back to this forum and searching for a missing soul. Felt sad for abandoning my Pentax family and was reading more and more about new K1.
Finally I had enough. Put all of my Sony gear for sale as well as some Fuji I had from before and put deposit on K1, which should be delivered by the end of this month. I am looking at some glass now and probably will go with DFA 24-70, DFA 50 f1.4 and DFA 100 f2.8 macro, for the start. Later on , to cater for some sport action of my son ( goal keeper) I will need some telephoto lens. What would you recommend with Pentax K1 for that kind of action photography?
Thank you for your time and any replay given.
Zeljko


Last edited by zeljko_pentax; 04-05-2016 at 02:29 AM.
04-05-2016, 02:35 AM   #2
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The options available are essentially the D FA* 70-200 f/2.8 or similar Tamron (perfect for sports, fast aperture for low light, but maybe not long enough for football?), the DA* 200 f/2.8 (less versatile, also not very long), the DA* 300 f/4 (less versatile, slower aperture, but longer) and the D FA 150-450 f/4.5-5.6 (more versatile, much longer, slower aperture).

I think you need to figure out what focal lengths you need to shoot your son from the positions available, then decide.

Also, if you sold your K3 II because it didn't do subject tracking well enough for you, then I doubt you will be happy with the K-1. By all accounts it will be slightly improved, but not revolutionary so. Plus the spread of AF points in the FF viewfinder is even smaller. So unless you have lowered your expectations and want to use the K-1 differently than you used your K3 II, I can see you setting yourself up for being unhappy again
04-05-2016, 04:10 AM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by FantasticMrFox Quote
The options available are essentially the D FA* 70-200 f/2.8 or similar Tamron (perfect for sports, fast aperture for low light, but maybe not long enough for football?), the DA* 200 f/2.8 (less versatile, also not very long), the DA* 300 f/4 (less versatile, slower aperture, but longer) and the D FA 150-450 f/4.5-5.6 (more versatile, much longer, slower aperture).

I think you need to figure out what focal lengths you need to shoot your son from the positions available, then decide.

Also, if you sold your K3 II because it didn't do subject tracking well enough for you, then I doubt you will be happy with the K-1. By all accounts it will be slightly improved, but not revolutionary so. Plus the spread of AF points in the FF viewfinder is even smaller. So unless you have lowered your expectations and want to use the K-1 differently than you used your K3 II, I can see you setting yourself up for being unhappy again
Thanks for a quick replay, mr. Fox.
You make some very interesting points. I don't think that I will get rid of my K1 in a hurry so I better find a way to improve my technique . I'm selling everything of my current gear to get K1 and some good lenses. Besides there is so many things I do like about Pentax and I've realised that after I sold my previous Pentax gear. I do miss it and I am determined to get it back and make it work.
Subject tracking is not as important to me as actually locking on the subject and sticking with it. Most of the time I only use a centre of the focusing screen or 9 AF points at most. The thing that I like about FF K1 is ability to switch it to crop mode if I need that extra reach even though I would loos some resolution. Anyhow you make sence with your comments and I appreciate your time and effort to enlighten me on those issues.
Regards,
Steve

Last edited by zeljko_pentax; 04-05-2016 at 05:02 AM.
04-05-2016, 04:23 AM - 1 Like   #4
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We'll all have to wait and see what the K-1's AF performance is like. The only indication we've had so far, which relies on pre-production firmware, has been from a professional photographer who has been testing the K-1. His view is that the K-1's autofocus is a big improvement over that of the K-3. What that translates to, in your case, it will be interesting to hear about, from you.

04-05-2016, 06:39 AM   #5
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I know buying and selling gear like that can be expensive. No matter what brand you pick (hopefully pentax) you should consider staying with it. Your goal should be to learn how to overcome your camera and personal weaknesses to get the shots you need. Remember, there is NO perfect camera or system. You will find something the K-1 will not do that your Sony/Nikon/Canon can. Don't jump ship UNLESS you are consistently missing shots you need to capture and a different lens, camera, or other gear will increase your keeper rate. Don't waste your time or money chasing the perfect camera or lens. Spend that time and money on going to awesome locations and take some pictures!! (off soapbox)

As for best lens, that is very subjective and you don't have a lot of options with FF. If you are ok with Crop Mode, then you have a bit more to choose from.

- DFA 70-200 will probably be the best "sports/action" lens available today. There are Sigma and Tamron versions out there that will perform similarly.
- DFA 150-450 has better reach, but with that much glass, it isn't blazing fast to focus. Focus limiter may help you here, and you can only allow the lens to focus in a zone rather the whole zoom range.
- DA* 50-135 is good, but the AF is slower than acceptable for sports
- DA* 300 or DA* 200 are awesome performers with decent focusing speed, but you may not be using the full image circle.
- DA 55-300wr, Not Fast Focusing At All. Also, crop mode is needed.


SO... You may not get the fastest AF or lens selection as Canon/Nikon/Sony. You many not be able to enjoy the FF sensor with the DA lenses. Your best bet for this camera is to get the 150-450 or 70-200. Please know, the K-3II will probably be the same performance as the K-1 with AF. If you were unhappy with the K-3II, you will probably find issue with the K-1. BUT!!!!!! IT DOESN'T"T MATTER!!!! Just use the camera, overcome the limitations and move on. Enjoy the process, keep taking photos!
04-05-2016, 07:07 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blacknight659 Quote
- DA* 50-135 is good, but the AF is slower than acceptable for sports
It's also not FF compatible, apparently showing heavy vignetting from 50-100 mm.
04-05-2016, 07:34 AM   #7
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I never had problems with the K-3 II AF tracking or not tracking. To me a lot of th AF performance depends on how the user is handling it (camera settings and physical positioning of the camera). The K-1 is not going to be disappointing, if someone knows how to use the camera, getting satisfying results will not be difficult to do.
04-05-2016, 11:11 AM   #8
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What telephoto

If sports subjects are only a once in a while thing, I would go with no more than the 70-200. Remember, on the K-1 in crop frame mode, your 200 becomes a nice fast 300. The last review of the 150-450 showed it was not well balanced among other things. That would be a real specialty lens, suitable only for tripod. The 70-210 can be easily hand held. Personally, An FA 200 2.8 ($950) or FA 300 2.8 ($2800) prime lens would be quite nice. At about 1/3rd the price, I would go with the 200, equal speed with less camera shake. You might even use the crop frame mode.


Last edited by jeverettfine; 04-05-2016 at 11:19 AM.
04-05-2016, 11:34 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by zeljko_pentax Quote
Finally I had enough. Put all of my Sony gear for sale as well as some Fuji I had from before and put deposit on K1, which should be delivered by the end of this month. I am looking at some glass now and probably will go with DFA 24-70, DFA 50 f1.4 and DFA 100 f2.8 macro, for the start. Later on , to cater for some sport action of my son ( goal keeper) I will need some telephoto lens. What would you recommend with Pentax K1 for that kind of action photography?
i do a lot of action shooting, based on that i suspect that a goal keeper target situation should be pretty straightforward, because you aren't having to focus on moving targets, that are running all over the field... i bet that i could do it with a manual focus lens.

not sure what kind of sony gear you had? if it was a crop sensor camera, the k-1 will be a huge step up for action, because of the iso/latitude performance... you'll need to be shooting at least 1/800th bare minimum, the faster the better, shutter speed is the priority here regardless of what camera you use.

don't shoot crop with a ff camera, it defeats the purpose of going ff, if you want crop get a crop camera, take advantage of the pixel density.

will you be shooting from up in the stands? i'd say get the 150-450, there really isn't any other choice, they are all too short, 600mm on my a7r isn't enough.
04-05-2016, 11:56 AM   #10
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Differences FF and Crop

QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
i do a lot of action shooting, based on that i suspect that a goal keeper target situation should be pretty straightforward, because you aren't having to focus on moving targets, that are running all over the field... i bet that i could do it with a manual focus lens.

not sure what kind of sony gear you had? if it was a crop sensor camera, the k-1 will be a huge step up for action, because of the iso/latitude performance... you'll need to be shooting at least 1/800th bare mini
...don't shoot crop with a ff camera, it defeats the purpose of going ff, if you want crop get a crop camera, take advantage of the pixel density...
Thanks for clarifications...Then is seems to me that the only purpose of a crop sensor on FF its to enable the use of lenses that will not cover the ff. Again, different formats with different strengths.
04-05-2016, 12:50 PM   #11
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given enough light, i think that the pixel density of 24mp crop is some of the best roi there is.

once i started editing 36mp in post, tho, it was clear why i had to step up to ff, i don't want to give up any more of those pixels than i have to.

so we shoot crop on ff because we don't have the right ff glass, but if we are happy with that pq, did we really need to get a 36mp camera?
04-05-2016, 03:35 PM   #12
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Some excellent point guys. This forum is well equiped with good bunch of people willing to help. Thanks .
My Sony a7 with 80-200 Minolta was doing not too bad of a job in sport but nothing to brag about. I like FF fo its details and hi ISO ability . With K1 , besides DFA 24-70 and DFA 100 macro, I'd like to get FA 50, f1.4 for the night indoor shots and ,after reading all your comments and considering the price of each option, I'm leaning towards FA 300 . I usually shoot from the sideline and even 200 would probably do. If action happen to a bit further I could always jump to a crop mode and not to lose a shot.
DFA 70-200 would be best suited, I believe, with zoom ability to cater for closer shots too. But looking at the price it's unlikely. At least for now.
Thanks again to all of you for your contribution.
Zeljko
04-05-2016, 04:23 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by zeljko_pentax Quote
Hi there.
I posted on this forum several times before and didn't think that I will be posting again. At least not this soon. I had an K5 IIs and K3 II with several lenses. Loved everything about the gear, feel of it, ergonomics, solid built, weather resistance, colour and on and on. Belonging to Pentax family is also a great feeling. One thing I was not impressed with was AF tracking ..... Later on , to cater for some sport action of my son ( goal keeper) I will need some telephoto lens. What would you recommend with Pentax K1 for that kind of action photography?
Thank you for your time and any replay given.
Zeljko
What kind of f-stop were you using? I commented in another thread that I was surprised to find professionally-taken pictures on-line from the "March Madness" finale that had been taken at ISO=8000, which allowed them to go with an f-stop of 6.3. I first downloaded the pictures {so I could see if there was anything revealing in the EXIF data}, because I was impressed by the DOF. Personally, I'm convinced that much of the issues people have with focusing comes from the modern tendency to use paper-thin DOF; you have a lot more "slop" in allowed focus when the DOF is fatter, and the K-1 should allow you to go with a higher ISO before noise becomes an issue.
04-06-2016, 04:42 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
What kind of f-stop were you using? I commented in another thread that I was surprised to find professionally-taken pictures on-line from the "March Madness" finale that had been taken at ISO=8000, which allowed them to go with an f-stop of 6.3. I first downloaded the pictures {so I could see if there was anything revealing in the EXIF data}, because I was impressed by the DOF. Personally, I'm convinced that much of the issues people have with focusing comes from the modern tendency to use paper-thin DOF; you have a lot more "slop" in allowed focus when the DOF is fatter, and the K-1 should allow you to go with a higher ISO before noise becomes an issue.
I always try to keep my f stop wide open (with Sony a7 + Minolta 80-200 HS f2.8 and before that with Pentax K3II + Pentax 70-200 f2.8) and shutter speed on 1/1000 sec. and above which is not bad on a sunny day, but on not so perfect condition my ISO would go above 3200 and become noisy. Other issue I have is focus locking. Goal keeper is always surrounded with a few players at least so I had to limit my focus to a single point or 9 points at most so my focus do not wonder away from a subject. Also I had to do it in short bursts of max 2-3 shots as otherwise someone around goalie would steel my focus.
As I am not really experienced with an action photography, what can I do to improve my success rate (20-30 %) and will a switch to K1 (and lets say DA 200 or DA 300) give me a better chance. ( allowing for a bit of a crop, if needed to get rid of a circle) .
Regards,
Zeljko

Last edited by zeljko_pentax; 04-06-2016 at 07:30 AM.
04-06-2016, 04:55 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by zeljko_pentax Quote
IOther issue I have is focus locking. Goal keeper is always surrounded with a few players at least so I had to limit my focus to a single point or 9 points at most so my focus do not wonder away from a subject. Also I had to do it in short bursts of max 2-3 shots as otherwise someone around goalie would steel my focus.
Try back button focus, Zeljko.
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