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04-05-2016, 10:25 AM   #31
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I hope the dust hasn't settled quite yet. I'd like to get my k-1 before that moment arrives. 😀

04-05-2016, 10:53 AM   #32
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I'm hoping for improved image quality. I think the recent batch of Pentax APS-C cameras do pretty well up to ISO 6400 & are okay up to ISO 12800. I'm hoping that ISO 12800 on the next batch of APS-C cameras is more usable.

I would like better autofocus tracking, but I think the K-3II has pretty good AF as it is. Any improvements in AF would be welcome.

Improved & more intelligent SR would be great too.

If anyone has any "solid" information on the next batch of APS-C cameras, please do share.
04-05-2016, 10:59 AM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by Denali_Mark Quote
I hope the dust hasn't settled quite yet. I'd like to get my k-1 before that moment arrives. 😀
No worries about that...

---------- Post added 04-05-16 at 08:00 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by The Squirrel Mafia Quote
If anyone has any "solid" information on the next batch of APS-C cameras, please do share.
I do, but its too soon to share. They just stopped being angry with me
04-05-2016, 11:16 AM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by FantasticMrFox Quote
Not going to happen within the next decade. They might close the gap, slowly, step by step, and the AF.C is getting better. But compare the K-3 II with the D500 or 7D Mk II. Being a smaller company with less engineers and no evidence that AF.C is a priority to them, do you really think Pentax is going to get to that level any time soon?
Ask yourself if the missed shots you've done with the flagship of Pentax camera would have been very successful with a D7200 or 7DII (at the speed of tech evolution, you can't compare a K-3 with a D500 still not available for purchase). I asked myself the same question, and even if camera have weak points versus other camera of the same generation, with the camera that we now have, it is usually wrong technique that result in poor photos.
So when you don't have the latest gear and miss a shot, you blame the gear, and when you would get the latest gear from canon and still miss the shot, you have no choice but to blame yourself, although in both cases you had a faulty technique relative to limitations of the gear you used. If you think about it, 20 years ago, cameras were far from being able to do what digital cameras can do now, yet there were excellent photos and crappy photos. You always have to deal with the limits of your equipment, the limits are quickly reached, and it's not having a Canon or Nikon camera that will change this. That's amazing the amount of biased unfair information that we get here and there, brand biased. Some cameras have real pitfalls, but brand addicts don't distinguish between real limitation with no workaround, and gear weakness that can be worked around by know how to best use any specific product.


Last edited by biz-engineer; 04-05-2016 at 11:22 AM.
04-05-2016, 11:35 AM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Ask yourself if the missed shots you've done with the flagship of Pentax camera would have been very successful with a D7200 or 7DII.
They most certainly would have been. The K3's main problem is that in AF.C, with a subject coming towards it, it is too slow to refocus once the subject slips out of the focus plane. The camera should drive the lens' AF at a continuous rate to keep the focus on the subject, but the K3 focuses, waits as the subject slips away, then reacquires focus, then waits again, all of that at a very pedestrian rate. Nikon and Canon do that much better.

I shot uni sports (rugby and football) recently with a friend who uses a Sony a6000, in one instance he just jokingly aimed the camera at a sprinting player with one hand while looking at me and chatting. Every single image of the player out of a 6 image burst was sharp and in focus. I can't get that rate concentrating, having the centre focus point in AF.C with focus priority on the subject. I tried his a6000 and with little experience with the camera got much better results than with my K3. He used the 55-210 kit lens, mind you, so it's not like he had an advantage in the lens department.

Now, I don't want this one for so many reasons, above all the EVF, the horrible ergonomics, the lack of weather sealing etc., but it smokes the K3 for sports and action.

QuoteQuote:
So when you don't have the latest gear and miss a shot, you blame the gear, and when you would get the latest gear from canon and still miss the shot, you have no choice but to blame yourself ...
Except once you know your gear and have a reasonable level of experience, and it can't deliver certain results despite you knowing what you are doing, you can actually establish that your gear is at fault, not you.

QuoteQuote:
If you think about it, 20 years ago, cameras were far from being able to do what digital cameras can do now, yet there were excellent photos and crappy photos.
What you don't see is that the rate of good to bad sports images (from a technical standpoint, that is) was much worse back in the days. The argument "people managed back in the days" is always thrown around when people complain that a certain camera lacks something, but it doesn't make much sense. Sure, cavemen got along somehow, but is that really the standard we want to measure against?

But I've had this discussion before on this site, and I don't want to derail this thread, which really is about what the next Pentax APS-C will offer.
04-05-2016, 11:42 AM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by FantasticMrFox Quote
They most certainly would have been. The K3's main problem is that in AF.C, with a subject coming towards it, it is too slow to refocus once the subject slips out of the focus plane. The camera should drive the lens' AF at a continuous rate to keep the focus on the subject, but the K3 focuses, waits as the subject slips away, then reacquires focus, then waits again, all of that at a very pedestrian rate. Nikon and Canon do that much better.
Yes, I know this, I had the same issue. But no so much anymore, I observed how it works and I learned how to use it, and basically nothing is written in the documentation, and unfortunately I had to figure out by myself because the only help I got from PF was defensive brand biased denial. It looks like Pentax staff can't care less about how to use their products, while canon are doing video and manual with various use cases explaining what settings are the best.

QuoteOriginally posted by FantasticMrFox Quote
Except once you know your gear and have a reasonable level of experience, and it can't deliver certain results despite you knowing what you are doing, you can actually establish that your gear is at fault, not you.
That what we think when no-one helps us, and until we have this "ah ah !" moment when we discover the technique.

If you use you gear to its potential, you get stunning results to the point that you don't need any full frame camera. But most of the time, it's the appeal of "new" product and "new features" that convert the product into a must have. How many people know exactly every single function of their K-3? They'll switch to a new K-1 camera without even having exhausted the capabilities of their apsc camera, just because having a full frame camera is very tempting.

I can see that you have a DA55-300 lens... mount the same kind of lens on a 7DII and you'll see how crappy the AF is... my friend has a Canon 7DII, he mounted a Tamron 150-600 on it, AF is slower than what I get with my K-3+DA300... and get what... AF servo does not work at all as soon as the lens is f6.3, can you imagine... my canon buddy it took him a lot of courage to finally unveil that his canon 7DII AF servo does not work because for him, acknowledging a canon failure to a pentax guy is total shame...but that's real... The 7DII AF performance is outstanding if you mount a $2000 lens on it. The same goes with Pentax...

Good knowledge saves you a lot of money and good technique is free.

Last edited by biz-engineer; 04-05-2016 at 12:03 PM.
04-05-2016, 11:42 AM   #37
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My first question is, does the K-3II successor get the Smart Function dial system from the K-1? To do so will either force the new APS-C camera to forgo the top LCD display or get significantly thicker. Without an LCD display to indicate what the settings are, the Smart Function dial becomes much less useful, but if the camera becomes thicker it shares dimensions with the K-1, which could change the feel and balance of it, especially with smaller DA lenses mounted.

The key to better AF isn't spreading focus points across the entire frame or necessarily having 50 or more of them, it is positioning enough points close enough so a moving object roughly in the centre of the frame stays in focus. If anyone has tried to move a camera to keep up with moving objects, they soon discover that objects approaching the edges of the frame often end up outside the frame. When that happens no AF system works. Another common problem is keeping the same moving object in focus, instead of switching focus to another player or a tree in line with the moving object, for instance. 33 AF points in a 35mm frame isn't much different than 27 AF points in an APS-C frame, a more intelligent SAFOX is better than SAFOX with more incoming data.

In regards to pixel density and its effect on noise and dynamic range, I don't expect the K-3II successor to downsize to 16MP, even if it means Pentax customers have to upgrade to the K-1 or 645Z to get the best high ISO performance and dynamic range. There are benefits from Increased resolution in a smaller sized sensor and it makes it much easier for Ricoh's marketing department to clearly delineate its different camera models.

Finally, if R&D is working on an improved P-TTL system, the K-3II successor would be the perfect platform to introduce it, if it shows real benefits then that can be a selling feature for the next generation of the K-1.
04-05-2016, 11:49 AM   #38
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Neither news nor rumor.

Moved to the proper forum.

04-05-2016, 01:57 PM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by totsmuyco Quote
One thing for sure, some of the characteristics of the k-1 will be used in the next k-3 successor. But I certainly don't want it to be the size of the k-1. I still wish for better AF and better noise for high ISO at low light. I also wish we could have noise free output at 3200 at the very least.
Better high ISO may be a very important area. This morning I was looking at pictures from the recent NCAA basketball final and I realized I was seeing much more DOF than I expected, so I downloaded a couple of pictures and then looked at the EXIF data; much to my surprise, they did leave the data in, and it tells an interesting story. For some time now, people have been assuming that the only way to get good indoor activity pictures is to use a constant wide-aperture lens, but these pictures were shot at ISO=8000, which allowed the f-stop to be 6.3. Yes, this is web, not Sports Illustrated, but most of us take to the former standard more than to the latter standard. Not only are long constant wide-aperture lenses expensive, they are also awkward to handle, so I'm thinking that this kind of approach might increasingly put more emphasis on doing "outrageously" high ISO well.

04-05-2016, 02:27 PM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Improved 24MP sensor
Same AF as the K-1
Same image processor as the K-1
WiFi
Improved IBIS (SR)
UHS-II SD Card Support
No tilt screen - Keep the size down and re-use the K-3 body
LCD overlay in the OVF like the K-1
OMG! Are you reading my mind? ;-)
04-05-2016, 03:32 PM   #41
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I think the next flagship will have:
- a 24 mp sensor, because that maintains a sensible distance from the K-1 and I don't see any higher resolution sensors at APS-C
- a version of the SR system from there K-1, because the Ricoh engineers strongly hinted at this in their recent interview with Imaging Resource
- the same AF module as the K-1, because they have shared AF modules between formats in the past
- the Prime 4 processor from the K-1 to support the above
- WiFi without the need for the Flucard, because recent models have had this
- the same top controls and screen from the K-1, because if they feel this is the best way to control a camera of this type, it makes sense to use it. The K-1 is not much bigger than the K-3 from the top, but it has a much bigger viewfinder hump. There might actually be more space on the shoulder of the K-3.
- if it had a tilt screen at all, it'll be the K-1 style. Ricoh has been promoting this as better than other designs, so it would be hard to justify using one of those other designs for a high-end model
- released in autumn, because that is good timing to show it at Photokina, and they have a history of releasing high-end APS-C at that time of year

So I basically think it'll be a K-1 shrunken in the vertical dimension. But I actually think we'll see a K-S1/K-50 replacement before then, because they tend to release the consumer focused DSLRs in spring or early summer, and the availability of the K-50 and certain K-S1 kits has been diminishing here in Japan.
04-06-2016, 06:57 AM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by FantasticMrFox Quote
Something else that I find intriguing is what Nikon did in their D500 - the camera automatically calibrates PDAF for any lens you mount. No more lengthy Siemens star shots to find out the right amount of micro adjustment. If that stuff works with various focal lengths and subject distances, it would be amazing. This feature will definitely be found in most DSLRs in the future, but can Pentax already put in in the K3 successor? Probably not, but we can dream
My personal belief is they'd be better off going with a hybrid focusing system; a hybrid system doesn't need any kind of calibration because it determines final focus by looking at what it actually has {much as you or I would}
04-06-2016, 12:58 PM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenspo Quote
I do, but its too soon to share. They just stopped being angry with me
Ah! I don't need to know specifics, models, image quality, or whatever.

The only thing I want to know is this:

Can we expect new APS-C bodies this year?
04-06-2016, 05:15 PM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by The Squirrel Mafia Quote
Ah! I don't need to know specifics, models, image quality, or whatever.

The only thing I want to know is this:

Can we expect new APS-C bodies this year?
I bet they want people to buy the K-1 before they tell us about (a) K-3xx
04-06-2016, 09:44 PM   #45
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Much like the K-S2, I just want a smaller and a lighter WR aps-c camera, and a 23/24mm F/2 or 35/F2 lens that is WR.
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