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04-23-2016, 12:40 AM   #31
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You bring Zach Arias up as an example... why not Ken Youknowwho? Same (zero) credibility...

04-23-2016, 01:57 AM   #32
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Two quick observations about mirrorless, and light cameras, etc:

1. The combined weight of the camera plus lens matters. (For example, if you want a 150-450mm zoom lens on a full-frame sensor, there is a limit to how light you can make it just by having a mirrorless camera).

2. It obviously isn't necessary to have a new mount to go mirrorless. That is an option, which may have some advantages, especially for shorter focal length lenses, but also has disadvantages to do with both user and Ricoh extra investment.
04-23-2016, 03:02 AM   #33
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In most cases, its all about money.
04-23-2016, 03:17 AM   #34
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I don't know how much would cost an advertising campaign, but I think that with some sets of K-1, and 2-3 lenses, sent to the more viewed photo-video-blogger on Youtube, like Tony Northrop, Matt Granger, and others like them, Pentax will do a very good job with less expenses (even if they give the cameras for free), and will be on everyone lips in a matter of weeks. I think that today, some good reviews on Youtube are more important and efficient than many advertising pages on some magazines.

And that is in my view, the problem with Pentax. They relay on old type advertising (when they do this advertising). In the mean time, Fuji and Sony are working with a number of video-bloggers, and their's cameras strong points are much, much better known than Pentax.

04-23-2016, 03:18 AM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenspo Quote
In most cases, its all about money.
oh oh , yep , you nailed it.
04-23-2016, 04:16 AM - 1 Like   #36
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I think there are a couple of things to say. First of all, it is all about the glass. If the glass is there, is high quality and reasonably priced, the pros will follow. This has been Canon and Nikon's strongest suit for a long time and while Sony is growing their lens portfolio, it still isn't there. From Pentax's standpoint, the idea of starting a new mount (which I think is what we are talking about here) is to start at square one and the length of time it would take to develop lenses for the new "L" mount or whatever they would call it would be years.

The second thing is what Barry said, which is that size equals camera body plus lens. None of these cameras are truly pocketable. The smallest micro four thirds camera with the smallest, slowest prime would be close, but the rest of them will need a dedicated holster or something to carry it in. Stick most any zoom on your Sony A7r and the size advantage shrinks considerably. Maybe there is still some, but it isn't huge. And truthfully, if you are shooting at a wedding for several hours with a 24-70 f2.8 and 70-200 f2.8, having too small a camera becomes much more of a strain ergonomically. I would always use a grip on my K3 in those situations and wouldn't want something smaller.

All of these cameras are good enough for everything except for top end sports and sports tracking. The question though really comes down to OVF versus EVF. That is the sort of thing that isn't answerable. People either love one or the other and they tend to get really polarized on both sides. I personally like OVFs a lot and don't feel limited by them in any way, but the time for EVFs seems to be coming.
04-23-2016, 04:38 AM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by john5100 Quote
This is not another thread bashing Pentax but I've been watching a lot of videos where pros are switching from FF CaNikon to Sony and Fuji mirrorless cameras. In all case, the pros all say that the AF won't keep up with DSLRs but the lightweight more than makes up for it. Pentax DSLRs are just about as compact with decent AF.

Search You Tube and you'll see everyone from Zack Arias to Kevin Mullins giving testimonials on how great Fuji is for fashion, street, and wedding photography. Jason Lanier has his 10 reasons I switched from Nikon to Sony. In all cases, the pluses described by these pros for Sony and Fuji, Pentax has in spades. They talk about the light good quality prime lenses. Pentax Limited and FA primes are terrific! They are as good as anyone's lenses. I would put a K3II or K3 against anything from Fuji or Sony. Yeah the A7RII should crush a K3II and it had better for $3500. Is the XPro2 or the A6300 any better than the K3II? I doubt it.

Pentax, you are watching, please take advantage of this...
I made the mistake of buying a Sony AR7Rii...I sold it after a mere 891 shutter actuations...I'll stick with my Pentax K3ii with it optical viewfinder and intuitive interface vs the Sony electronic viewfinder and hard to use menu driven interface...the Sony just didn't work in a studio environment for me.

---------- Post added 04-23-2016 at 06:39 AM ----------

Last edited by fwbigd; 04-23-2016 at 04:47 AM.
04-23-2016, 05:19 AM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by fwbigd Quote
I made the mistake of buying a Sony AR7Rii...I sold it after a mere 891 shutter actuations...I'll stick with my Pentax K3ii with it optical viewfinder and intuitive interface vs the Sony electronic viewfinder and hard to use menu driven interface...the Sony just didn't work in a studio environment for me.
Luckily I have not bought one, but a friend of mine did, and I got to play with it extensively. I dislike the electronic viewfinder immensely.

04-23-2016, 05:55 AM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I think there are a couple of things to say. First of all, it is all about the glass. If the glass is there, is high quality and reasonably priced, the pros will follow. This has been Canon and Nikon's strongest suit for a long time and while Sony is growing their lens portfolio, it still isn't there. From Pentax's standpoint, the idea of starting a new mount (which I think is what we are talking about here) is to start at square one and the length of time it would take to develop lenses for the new "L" mount or whatever they would call it would be years.
Yes. Recently when I was window-shopping other systems, I took a particularly hard look at Fuji. In many ways the X-T1 is my dream camera, it's almost as though they pulled the design right out of my head. However, I would be starting from zero on lenses. Well, the lenses are highly reputed, and they have quite a few fast primes. That's good. But they are quite pricey, and there's nothing like the endless bounty of lenses found in K-mount. I worked out the math comparing an X-T1 with a K-1, and any way I figured it, I would end up spending considerably more on the Fuji while getting a much lower-specified system.

Pentax are already supporting three entire lens catalogs: K, Q and 645. And that includes both APS-C and FF/135 format lenses for K-mount, now! Adding another mount type would really seem like biting off more than they can chew. Plus, what use case isn't covered by the ones they have? Making a Super Q with an EVF would be a lot easier than introducing a new lens mount. Or else, how about a K-02 with an EVF? Or both?


QuoteQuote:
None of these cameras are truly pocketable. The smallest micro four thirds camera with the smallest, slowest prime would be close, but the rest of them will need a dedicated holster or something to carry it in.
Now here I think you have missed point, as a great many do. None of these were ever intended to be pocket cameras. Even my Q7 with the 01 prime I can only sort of awkwardly stuff into a larger pocket. I adore the portability of the Q7 system, though. I got the Premium Kit with the 01, 02, 06 and 08 lenses, and I added the 03 myself. All this fits into the special, somewhat purse-like, little bag. It's effortless to take everywhere, and it is very freeing. When I leave the house, I never have to worry about what lenses I'm going to need. I just grab the bag. If I'm taking a long walk about, I can sling the bag over my shoulder and forget about it -- until I see a photo opportunity.


QuoteQuote:
The question though really comes down to OVF versus EVF. That is the sort of thing that isn't answerable. People either love one or the other and they tend to get really polarized on both sides. I personally like OVFs a lot and don't feel limited by them in any way, but the time for EVFs seems to be coming.
Some people are naturally conservative and will not accept something that works differently from what they've used all their lives, or that requires them to change their habits in some small way. It reminds me of trying to sell people on electric cars. . .
04-23-2016, 11:31 AM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tony Belding Quote
Some people are naturally conservative and will not accept something that works differently from what they've used all their lives, or that requires them to change their habits in some small way. It reminds me of trying to sell people on electric cars. . .

Exactly. Who needs 'em?
04-23-2016, 01:26 PM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by Not a Number Quote
Ricoh has their Pentax Ambassadors who are working professionals. Just ask @kenspo
Yep, we just wait for him to post videos and write sensed blogs
And also could he be not so alone
I know so few ambassadors, not all professionnals.
04-23-2016, 02:27 PM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by MarkJerling Quote
Luckily I have not bought one, but a friend of mine did, and I got to play with it extensively. I dislike the electronic viewfinder immensely.
...same here.


Steve
04-23-2016, 03:01 PM - 1 Like   #43
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I use a Fuji X-M1 (one of the smaller Fujis) and it's a little wonder, much smaller and lighter that any DSLR - which is a huge advantage. Image quality is at least as good as that of the K3 and jpegs significantly better. I can't comment on the AF as I only use it with adapted lenses, mostly K-mount. It pairs remarkably well with the smaller DA limited primes.

While Pentax shares many advantages with such mirrorless cameras when compared to other DSLRs, it's clear that the future is mirrorless and Pentax is missing the boat, like many others. Trying to sell DSLRs on their small size would be ridiculous these days when mirrorless cameras are half the size and a third of the weight. I love my K3 and Pentax lenses, they're still more capable than the Fuji, but DSLRs won't be around forever, even the "pro" ones.
04-23-2016, 03:08 PM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tony Belding Quote
Yes. Recently when I was window-shopping other systems, I took a particularly hard look at Fuji. In many ways the X-T1 is my dream camera, it's almost as though they pulled the design right out of my head. However, I would be starting from zero on lenses. Well, the lenses are highly reputed, and they have quite a few fast primes. That's good. But they are quite pricey, and there's nothing like the endless bounty of lenses found in K-mount. I worked out the math comparing an X-T1 with a K-1, and any way I figured it, I would end up spending considerably more on the Fuji while getting a much lower-specified system.

Pentax are already supporting three entire lens catalogs: K, Q and 645. And that includes both APS-C and FF/135 format lenses for K-mount, now! Adding another mount type would really seem like biting off more than they can chew. Plus, what use case isn't covered by the ones they have? Making a Super Q with an EVF would be a lot easier than introducing a new lens mount. Or else, how about a K-02 with an EVF? Or both?




Now here I think you have missed point, as a great many do. None of these were ever intended to be pocket cameras. Even my Q7 with the 01 prime I can only sort of awkwardly stuff into a larger pocket. I adore the portability of the Q7 system, though. I got the Premium Kit with the 01, 02, 06 and 08 lenses, and I added the 03 myself. All this fits into the special, somewhat purse-like, little bag. It's effortless to take everywhere, and it is very freeing. When I leave the house, I never have to worry about what lenses I'm going to need. I just grab the bag. If I'm taking a long walk about, I can sling the bag over my shoulder and forget about it -- until I see a photo opportunity.




Some people are naturally conservative and will not accept something that works differently from what they've used all their lives, or that requires them to change their habits in some small way. It reminds me of trying to sell people on electric cars. . .
The Q has very slow equivalent lenses -- and a very small sensor size. If you are willing to use slow lenses, then you could have a pretty small lens for most sensor sizes. The problem is that there are few f5.6 primes for full frame. That said, once you decide you are going to "take a bag" the question then becomes what size bag will you take. For me, it is little different to take a K3 with a DA 40 than it would be to take a Nex A7 with whatever prime I would choose or, the other hand, it would be that much different to have an A7 with a 24-70 f2.8 versus a K-1 with a 24-70 f2.8.

As to the EVF versus OVF debate, it is fine for you cast stones at those who prefer OVFs, but de gustibus non est disputandum. Your choice is no more or less valid than theirs.
04-23-2016, 04:06 PM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by john5100 Quote
This is not another thread bashing Pentax but I've been watching a lot of videos where pros are switching from FF CaNikon to Sony and Fuji mirrorless cameras. In all case, the pros all say that the AF won't keep up with DSLRs but the lightweight more than makes up for it. Pentax DSLRs are just about as compact with decent AF.

Search You Tube and you'll see everyone from Zack Arias to Kevin Mullins giving testimonials on how great Fuji is for fashion, street, and wedding photography. Jason Lanier has his 10 reasons I switched from Nikon to Sony. In all cases, the pluses described by these pros for Sony and Fuji, Pentax has in spades. They talk about the light good quality prime lenses. Pentax Limited and FA primes are terrific! They are as good as anyone's lenses. I would put a K3II or K3 against anything from Fuji or Sony. Yeah the A7RII should crush a K3II and it had better for $3500. Is the XPro2 or the A6300 any better than the K3II? I doubt it.

Pentax, you are watching, please take advantage of this...
There are pros and cons to every camera system and type. I currently have a K3 with some favorite zooms and a few primes. In August i bought the A7R2. I bought 3 primes for it and have 1 kit zoom. My shooting style has changed dramatically from heavy zooms to lightweight primes, from tripods to mostly handheld.

One doesn't need to be defensive about either system. There are features in both camera systems where Pentax is doing things excellently and other features where Sony is doing things excellently. In fact i'm still keeping my K3 for winter use and its WR.

Weight is something i care about now. My Sony FF mirrorless weighs only 625gms. With my
AF 28mm F2 lens, it weighs about 800 gms. The K3 weighs about 800 gms without lens. The comparable FF K1 weighs over 1000gms without lens. There are other Sony FF mirrorless that weigh 100gms less than my model. Pentax needs to care about a weight reduction program, otherwise known as a diet :-). Some folks would say one needs greater weight and camera strength to handle the long fast glass. Thats probably true, but i don' t care about long glass or heavy zooms of any kind, so i'm happy with my recent choices.

In 2015, mirrorless ILC sales were 33% of DSLR sales. In the first 2 months of 2016, mirrorless ILC sales were 50% of DSLR sales. The numbers are from cipa and are from the total currency (in 1000 yen) column, not the units sold column. At some point i would expect a more stable rate of DSLR sales to mirrorless ILC sales. But we apparently aren't there yet. I don't expect DSLRs to die any time soon, they are competitive and probably will remain so.

Last edited by philbaum; 04-23-2016 at 04:12 PM.
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