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05-10-2016, 05:50 PM   #76
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I really didn't want to get into this here, it doesn't belong here. However, I feel like I have to respond. . .

QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
Only if I drive from home to work. And it is not 200miles for most cars but more like 40-50.
I'm not aware of anybody today selling cars with 40-50 miles range. That sounds like something from the 1990s, before li-ion batteries. The world has moved on. Tesla are currently the only company with 250+ miles range, and yes they are pricey. I think there are several others now with 75-100 miles range. Those haven't exactly set the world on fire. But the Chevy Bolt with 200+ miles range should ship this year, and the Tesla Model 3 next year, and Nissan and Ford are expected to follow with their own 200+ mile electric cars. They really have no choice, if they want to compete at all. The new standard has been set.

QuoteQuote:
Fast charging station? There are none, in particular, not near the ski station.
Have you checked? You might be surprised. There's an app for that.

Tesla have really proven what is possible in terms of building out a network of fast charge stations. Other car companies, like GM and Nissan, really seem like they don't want to go there, but I think that decision will come back to bite them. (I suspect those companies really want a fast charging network, but they want to lobby the government build it for them!)

QuoteQuote:
Go back see my father by car? 500kms on highway so how many time will I have to wait 20-25mins, counting that most stations don't even have support?
Not sure what you mean about "don't even have support?" 500 kms is only 310 miles, so that's just one stop with quite a bit of leeway.

QuoteQuote:
The batteries are very expensive and need to be changed often. The idea also to not make people wait for charge at the refill station and to avoid drastically reduced efficiancy of fast charge, you directly exchange your empty batteries with one full. Were I live I can't buy an electric car and own the batteries. I can only rent them, the monthly cost for the rent is arround the price of 30-50 gallons of gazoline a month.
Where do you live? The only battery swap scheme I've heard about like that was from Project Better Place (based in Israel), and their company failed miserably years ago. Batteries are expensive right now, but the price has been falling rapidly and will fall further.

QuoteQuote:
This also avoid to say have to spend 10K$ or more after 5 years for new batteries, maybe only 1-2 years for new batteries if you abused the "fast charge". The guys would have the impression you ask them to buy a new car each time.
The batteries do not wear out anywhere near that fast. Where do you come up with these numbers??

05-10-2016, 06:06 PM   #77
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When an electric family sedan costs $25,000 to $35,000 without government subsidy (dependent on feature set) and I can refuel the car in 5 minutes every 5 miles across the entire country then it will make sense. Until that happens all-electric is a non-starter.

And so is mirrorless.

And video.
05-10-2016, 06:42 PM - 1 Like   #78
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In my view, at this time and in this place:
Internal combustion = freedom. Electric = slavery.
Pentax = freedom. Canikony = slavery.
Onward!
05-10-2016, 06:50 PM   #79
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
When an electric family sedan costs $25,000 to $35,000 without government subsidy (dependent on feature set) and I can refuel the car in 5 minutes every 5 miles across the entire country then it will make sense. Until that happens all-electric is a non-starter.
I could not agree more.

QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
And so is mirrorless.
Actually, apparently I can agree more!

QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
And video.
And again!

05-10-2016, 07:09 PM   #80
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tony Belding Quote
I really didn't want to get into this here, it doesn't belong here. However, I feel like I have to respond. . .
I'm not aware of anybody today selling cars with 40-50 miles range. That sounds like something from the 1990s, before li-ion batteries. The world has moved on. Tesla are currently the only company with 250+ miles range, and yes they are pricey. I think there are several others now with 75-100 miles range. Those haven't exactly set the world on fire. But the Chevy Bolt with 200+ miles range should ship this year, and the Tesla Model 3 next year, and Nissan and Ford are expected to follow with their own 200+ mile electric cars. They really have no choice, if they want to compete at all. The new standard has been set.
A detailed list is available here: Detailed List of Electric Cars and Plug-in Hybrids | PluginCars.com Really, other than the Tesla, there's curently nothing available that will do more than 80-90 miles. The nearest charging station to my house, is 90km (56 miles) away. If I go the other direction, 210km. (130 miles) We own 4 cars - all of which cost less (together) than the cost of one new electric only car, and, not an expensive Tesla. Right now, the maths simply do not stack up.
05-10-2016, 07:12 PM   #81
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tony Belding Quote
500 kms is only 310 miles, so that's just one stop with quite a bit of leeway.
What happens when you arrive at that lone charging station and there's already another car plugged in? Then you'll be stopping for several hours. Who will want to do that?
05-10-2016, 08:04 PM   #82
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I'm guessing and trying to find out (hardly) if anybody's "missing the boat" ; but i'm definitely not missing your cars.
05-10-2016, 08:17 PM   #83
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QuoteOriginally posted by Zygonyx Quote
I'm guessing and trying to find out (hardly) if anybody's "missing the boat" ; but i'm definitely not missing your cars.
Every car has it's purpose. But no, I don't think Pentax is missing the boat. If anything, Pentax has control of the rudder and the throttle!

05-10-2016, 09:20 PM   #84
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QuoteOriginally posted by Zygonyx Quote
I'm guessing and trying to find out (hardly) if anybody's "missing the boat" ; but i'm definitely not missing your cars.
In an attempt to meld this detour into the main route: several years ago it was reported that Ford actually had designs for four versions of one of their cars; they would produce the standard and the hybrid versions, but they also had plug-in hybrid and pure electric versions available, and the designs were such that they could change an assembly line from one version to another over-night; thus, if another energy crisis were to occur, they could bring out a version better suited for the new conditions over-night. I am hoping that Pentax is engaged in a similar thought pattern. I see no reason to question their current product mix, but I am hoping that if we did reach a tipping point, where consumers would suddenly buy mostly MILCs, then they could roll out a complete line of MILCs in a very short period of time. My personal belief is that would be possible only if they were doing some quiet research, which is why I am hoping to see advances, such as an EVF version of the Q and/or K-01 ... but I don't claim to be a camera design expert, so I will just have to maintain my hopes. With that orientation, I don't see any point to endless discussions on the subject, but people will talk about whatever they want to talk about.
05-11-2016, 12:01 AM   #85
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
In an attempt to meld this detour into the main route: several years ago it was reported that Ford actually had designs for four versions of one of their cars; they would produce the standard and the hybrid versions, but they also had plug-in hybrid and pure electric versions available, and the designs were such that they could change an assembly line from one version to another over-night; thus, if another energy crisis were to occur, they could bring out a version better suited for the new conditions over-night.
The problem is that if there a real energy crisis electricity will be scarse too. Like in some cities and countries today, you'll have only it as some hours, the price would go drastically up and everything made new would become even more expensive to make and buy, including electric cars. Everything require energy.

And of course, public transportation, bycicles and walk would be used much more and everybody living far from work, public transportation and city center would be big trouble. They big house would loose all their value. As such you can expect population migration.

If any electric device was to strive, that would be electric bycicle not fat and heavy cars. Much cheaper, far less energy consumption.
05-11-2016, 12:08 AM   #86
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QuoteOriginally posted by MarkJerling Quote
A detailed list is available here: Detailed List of Electric Cars and Plug-in Hybrids | PluginCars.com Really, other than the Tesla, there's curently nothing available that will do more than 80-90 miles. The nearest charging station to my house, is 90km (56 miles) away. If I go the other direction, 210km. (130 miles) We own 4 cars - all of which cost less (together) than the cost of one new electric only car, and, not an expensive Tesla. Right now, the maths simply do not stack up.
And that's theory. You'd want a safe margin (on a classical car this is like 20-30 miles!). For example on this website:

"The battery pack is kept close to an optimum temperature of 70 degrees Fahrenheit, thanks to an active liquid thermal management system. BMW said the battery pack can either be cooled using the carís air conditioner, or warmed using the carís heat-exchange heating system. Nevertheless, numerous i3 owners have complained about a loss in range during the winter months, with some reporting that it can fall below 50 miles on especially cold days."

So 30 miles lost in winter: from 81 to 50... Add even a small 10 miles margin to not be blocked and then you need to charge every 40 miles in winter. Let's not forget that batteries capacity is reduced with time, so it will only go down too.
05-11-2016, 01:29 AM - 1 Like   #87
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This thread has gone totaly out of controle, show no attention to the OP's subject, and has turned into a debate on environmenral politics with very personal opinions presented as facts. I'd be happy to debate that...elsewhere. But I thought politics were banned here?
05-11-2016, 02:02 AM   #88
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How about a solar car with alternate batteries? Maybe you can go for several hundreds of miles during the day and use your batteries in the evening till you can charge them at a power station. Who knows? I'm a Certified Public Accountant and not an engineer so what I'm saying is pure guess or speculation. Now enough about cars and back to the topic.

As for Pentax missing the boat, well maybe not. Maybe the future is MILC. Again, who knows. One thing for sure is I tried looking into an EM-1's EVF and I didn't seem to like it. Probably it will take sometime for me to get used to it but until then, I will continue to use my Pentax gears. I simply just want to enjoy my gears and plan things out as they come. Cheers.
05-11-2016, 04:18 AM   #89
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Mirrorless is as much about ( or maybe more about) manufacturing technology as it is about image technology. To get the full profit benefit of Mirrorless Ricoh will need to ground-up design an complete, semi-automated assembly process as well as the camera. Comparatively little SLR assembly process knowledge transfers to MILC.
05-11-2016, 06:07 AM   #90
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
The problem is that if there a real energy crisis electricity will be scarse too. Like in some cities and countries today, you'll have only it as some hours, the price would go drastically up and everything made new would become even more expensive to make and buy, including electric cars. Everything require energy.

And of course, public transportation, bycicles and walk would be used much more and everybody living far from work, public transportation and city center would be big trouble. They big house would loose all their value. As such you can expect population migration.

If any electric device was to strive, that would be electric bycicle not fat and heavy cars. Much cheaper, far less energy consumption.
This is totally off topic, but your comment deserves a reply.

The U.S. has lots of capacity for generating electricity, and from various sources, very little of which involves petroleum, so petroleum usage and electricity usage have relatively little overlap. When we talk about an "energy crisis" we mean that supply of petroleum is down. Until the past few years, that could easily happen if something went wrong in the Middle East, and so the thinking was always how could we move some of our activity from petroleum to electricity; yes, we would have to cut back over-all usage, but the need was to balance the whole thing out, and moving from gasoline powered cars to cars that ran at least partially on electricity could have been a part of that effort, and the Ford planning was that kind of thinking. I used that only as an analogy of how managers of industry need to be flexible in how they plan.

Now, I've said all I'm going to say about automobiles.
Lets get back to cameras!

---------- Post added 05-11-16 at 09:09 AM ----------
Now, getting back to cameras myself ...
QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Mirrorless is as much about ( or maybe more about) manufacturing technology as it is about image technology. To get the full profit benefit of Mirrorless Ricoh will need to ground-up design an complete, semi-automated assembly process as well as the camera. Comparatively little SLR assembly process knowledge transfers to MILC.
That is part of why it would be good for Pentax to keep at least one MILC line so they can be completely up-to-date on the processes involved in designing and constructing MILC
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