To insurance or not to insurance?

ajack · 05-17-2016, 04:37 PM

In my opinion insurance should only be purchased for things that would really be impossible or enormously disruptive to pay out of pocket... e.g. a car or a house. If you buy insurance coverage for everything that can break (camera, cell phone, TV, laptop, etc), you will be paying hundreds of dollars per year. The companies know how likely you are to file a claim and set their rates accordingly (plus their own profit, of course). Mathematically you are unlikely to come out ahead, unless you think you are especially clumsy. For me there is no "peace of mind" gained by pre-paying that way.

stevebrot · 05-17-2016, 04:57 PM

Originally posted by mattb123

It all depends on your comfort level.
I don't have insurance but I have spare bodies and I haven't (terminally) broken one yet. So I risk it. I know it could catch up with me one day but it's a gamble I'm willing to take.

My story is pretty much the same. For some 45 years, I have hiked, climbed, skied, biked, boated, rafted, traveled, and hung out in precarious places with my camera without any form of drop/spill/failure insurance and with only homeowners as a hedge against theft/loss. I guess that is tempting fate.

To be fair, I have taken reasonable precautions with the gear (dry bags and such) and on one occasion did almost kill my camera. In the mid-1970s I was downhill skiing and fell full onto my Ricoh Singlex TLS. The camera had been slung over head/shoulder messenger style and the force of the fall was such that the strap lugs were sheared from the camera. I was pretty devastated (was poor and still in college), but a thorough inspection revealed that the only damage was to the lugs. A local shop drilled out the stubs and epoxied replacements studs similar to the original. So when people ask me about the durability of legacy Ricoh gear, I nod sagely and say yep...tough cameras...

Steve

**UncleVanya** · 05-17-2016, 05:13 PM

Originally posted by mattb123

It all depends on your comfort level.
I don't have insurance but I have spare bodies and I haven't (terminally) broken one yet. So I risk it. I know it could catch up with me one day but it's a gamble I'm willing to take.
I shoot all kinds of inhospitable places. Also without UV filters!

Sir! You are daring! LOL - let's not start a filter war please...

Originally posted by ajack

In my opinion insurance should only be purchased for things that would really be impossible or enormously disruptive to pay out of pocket... e.g. a car or a house. If you buy insurance coverage for everything that can break (camera, cell phone, TV, laptop, etc), you will be paying hundreds of dollars per year. The companies know how likely you are to file a claim and set their rates accordingly (plus their own profit, of course). Mathematically you are unlikely to come out ahead, unless you think you are especially clumsy. For me there is no "peace of mind" gained by pre-paying that way.

It also should measure your ability to repurchase. If you have near zero chance to repurchase the items because of a lifetime of slow steady savings and aquisitions - you might want something like the homeowner's rider. The purpose of insurance is to protect against unlikely events. Unlike medical insurance (nearly prepayment these days depending on the policy) the purpose of a Mack warranty or a homeowner's rider is to set aside an amount of capital you can afford and leverage it in case of a problem. The self-insurance option also works if you have the capital and discipline.

stevebrot · 05-17-2016, 05:22 PM

Originally posted by ajack

The companies know how likely you are to file a claim and set their rates accordingly (plus their own profit, of course).

Yes, that is how it works. OTOH, there are some classes of product that I ALWAYS at least investigate the cost of warranty extension and/or drop/spill insurance. Those products include laptop computers and tablets, cell phones and digital cameras. I opted out of additional coverage on my phone ($250 a year on a $600 device? Get real! I should have bought the two year warranty extension on my laptop (only $150 on a $900 box...bargain...Web cam failed out of warranty and cost to fix would have been $300+...make due with a USB version). I got the 2-year extension on my K-3 (super value) and would seriously consider a FairTrade policy on my next camera purchase.

Steve

Edgar_in_Indy · 05-17-2016, 07:35 PM

Originally posted by stevebrot

Yes, that is how it works. OTOH, there are some classes of product that I ALWAYS at least investigate the cost of warranty extension and/or drop/spill insurance. Those products include laptop computers and tablets, cell phones and digital cameras. I opted out of additional coverage on my phone ($250 a year on a $600 device? Get real! I should have bought the two year warranty extension on my laptop (only $150 on a $900 box...bargain...Web cam failed out of warranty and cost to fix would have been $300+...make due with a USB version). I got the 2-year extension on my K-3 (super value) and would seriously consider a FairTrade policy on my next camera purchase.

Yeah, I think that if it is an expensive electronic device that you take out with you a lot, then the coverage might make more sense. But if you go buying warranties on anything and everything that can simply fail, then you'll probably lose out in the long run.

$300 to fix a webcam? Was that a Mac? On most PC laptops you would just be able to remove a few screws and unsnap the bezel to access the camera module, and a used module could be picked up for a few bucks on eBay.

AdrianM · 05-17-2016, 07:43 PM

I recently droped and killed an Olympus OMD EM1 that I had just bought new (AUD1100) and it was eye-watering to realise I had failed to insure it. When I look at my birding kit, I am carrying about AUD12000 around with me. There have been times when I have almost lost the lot in one incident (falling into a river), but it is all insured. It depends on how much tolerance you have for loss, so my approach is to insure each item if it is more expensive than AUD500.

lesmore49 · 05-17-2016, 08:27 PM

Get it.

A lot can happen in 5 years.

I bought a Limited lens and their protection plan, from Henry's a few years ago.

The lens didn't feel right. I hemmed and hawed for a couple of months, but finally thought what the heck, send it in.

I did and I'm glad I did. They found the issue and repaired it to a total of $ 300. It seems to work much better now and all feels right, when I use it.

$ 300 for a protection plan, that will last till 5 years hence. Good deal, when you break it down on a yearly basis...$ 60 a year.

Think about how complicated a camera body is...all the things that can happen to it, during that relatively long period of time. Think about how expensive it would be to replace that pricey camera ?

That's my experience with Henry's. They came through and repaired my expensive lens, under their warranty. This kind of service is an important reason why I deal with this company.

stevebrot · 05-17-2016, 10:04 PM

Originally posted by Edgar_in_Indy

$300 to fix a webcam? Was that a Mac?

Lenovo...most of the wear or common-fail parts are modular and easily replaced, but the Web camp requires a fairly extensive tear down. At least that is they way I read the service description before I decided to not do it myself. The nice thing is that Lenovo publishes detailed procedures to service almost everything.

Steve

Edgar_in_Indy · 05-18-2016, 04:25 AM

Originally posted by stevebrot

Lenovo...most of the wear or common-fail parts are modular and easily replaced, but the Web camp requires a fairly extensive tear down. At least that is they way I read the service description before I decided to not do it myself. The nice thing is that Lenovo publishes detailed procedures to service almost everything.

I've worked on a lot of laptops, and replaced a lot of screens, and generally you remove some screws and then you can start popping body panels off. Once the screen bezel is off then the webcam should be exposed sitting just above the LCD panel.

YouTube will often have videos of LCD screen replacement being performed on various models that you could follow as a walk-through. If you find a video for your model, then you might be able to see how difficult it would actually be to get to the webcam.

05-17-2016, 04:57 PM	#17
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by mattb123 It all depends on your comfort level. I don't have insurance but I have spare bodies and I haven't (terminally) broken one yet. So I risk it. I know it could catch up with me one day but it's a gamble I'm willing to take. My story is pretty much the same. For some 45 years, I have hiked, climbed, skied, biked, boated, rafted, traveled, and hung out in precarious places with my camera without any form of drop/spill/failure insurance and with only homeowners as a hedge against theft/loss. I guess that is tempting fate. To be fair, I have taken reasonable precautions with the gear (dry bags and such) and on one occasion did almost kill my camera. In the mid-1970s I was downhill skiing and fell full onto my Ricoh Singlex TLS. The camera had been slung over head/shoulder messenger style and the force of the fall was such that the strap lugs were sheared from the camera. I was pretty devastated (was poor and still in college), but a thorough inspection revealed that the only damage was to the lugs. A local shop drilled out the stubs and epoxied replacements studs similar to the original. So when people ask me about the durability of legacy Ricoh gear, I nod sagely and say yep...tough cameras... Steve Last edited by stevebrot; 05-17-2016 at 05:24 PM.

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05-17-2016, 04:37 PM	#16
ajack Forum Member Join Date: May 2016 Location: Maine Posts: 95	In my opinion insurance should only be purchased for things that would really be impossible or enormously disruptive to pay out of pocket... e.g. a car or a house. If you buy insurance coverage for everything that can break (camera, cell phone, TV, laptop, etc), you will be paying hundreds of dollars per year. The companies know how likely you are to file a claim and set their rates accordingly (plus their own profit, of course). Mathematically you are unlikely to come out ahead, unless you think you are especially clumsy. For me there is no "peace of mind" gained by pre-paying that way.

05-17-2016, 05:13 PM	#18
UncleVanya Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,400	Originally posted by mattb123 It all depends on your comfort level. I don't have insurance but I have spare bodies and I haven't (terminally) broken one yet. So I risk it. I know it could catch up with me one day but it's a gamble I'm willing to take. I shoot all kinds of inhospitable places. Also without UV filters! Sir! You are daring! LOL - let's not start a filter war please... Originally posted by ajack In my opinion insurance should only be purchased for things that would really be impossible or enormously disruptive to pay out of pocket... e.g. a car or a house. If you buy insurance coverage for everything that can break (camera, cell phone, TV, laptop, etc), you will be paying hundreds of dollars per year. The companies know how likely you are to file a claim and set their rates accordingly (plus their own profit, of course). Mathematically you are unlikely to come out ahead, unless you think you are especially clumsy. For me there is no "peace of mind" gained by pre-paying that way. It also should measure your ability to repurchase. If you have near zero chance to repurchase the items because of a lifetime of slow steady savings and aquisitions - you might want something like the homeowner's rider. The purpose of insurance is to protect against unlikely events. Unlike medical insurance (nearly prepayment these days depending on the policy) the purpose of a Mack warranty or a homeowner's rider is to set aside an amount of capital you can afford and leverage it in case of a problem. The self-insurance option also works if you have the capital and discipline.

05-17-2016, 05:22 PM	#19
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by ajack The companies know how likely you are to file a claim and set their rates accordingly (plus their own profit, of course). Yes, that is how it works. OTOH, there are some classes of product that I ALWAYS at least investigate the cost of warranty extension and/or drop/spill insurance. Those products include laptop computers and tablets, cell phones and digital cameras. I opted out of additional coverage on my phone ($250 a year on a $600 device? Get real! I should have bought the two year warranty extension on my laptop (only $150 on a $900 box...bargain...Web cam failed out of warranty and cost to fix would have been $300+...make due with a USB version). I got the 2-year extension on my K-3 (super value) and would seriously consider a FairTrade policy on my next camera purchase. Steve

05-17-2016, 07:35 PM	#20
Edgar_in_Indy Veteran Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Indiana, USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,685	Originally posted by stevebrot Yes, that is how it works. OTOH, there are some classes of product that I ALWAYS at least investigate the cost of warranty extension and/or drop/spill insurance. Those products include laptop computers and tablets, cell phones and digital cameras. I opted out of additional coverage on my phone ($250 a year on a $600 device? Get real! I should have bought the two year warranty extension on my laptop (only $150 on a $900 box...bargain...Web cam failed out of warranty and cost to fix would have been $300+...make due with a USB version). I got the 2-year extension on my K-3 (super value) and would seriously consider a FairTrade policy on my next camera purchase. Yeah, I think that if it is an expensive electronic device that you take out with you a lot, then the coverage might make more sense. But if you go buying warranties on anything and everything that can simply fail, then you'll probably lose out in the long run. $300 to fix a webcam? Was that a Mac? On most PC laptops you would just be able to remove a few screws and unsnap the bezel to access the camera module, and a used module could be picked up for a few bucks on eBay.

05-17-2016, 07:43 PM	#21
AdrianM Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Ipswich, Queensland, Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 589	I recently droped and killed an Olympus OMD EM1 that I had just bought new (AUD1100) and it was eye-watering to realise I had failed to insure it. When I look at my birding kit, I am carrying about AUD12000 around with me. There have been times when I have almost lost the lot in one incident (falling into a river), but it is all insured. It depends on how much tolerance you have for loss, so my approach is to insure each item if it is more expensive than AUD500.

05-17-2016, 08:27 PM	#22
lesmore49 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Western Canada Posts: 12,342	Get it. A lot can happen in 5 years. I bought a Limited lens and their protection plan, from Henry's a few years ago. The lens didn't feel right. I hemmed and hawed for a couple of months, but finally thought what the heck, send it in. I did and I'm glad I did. They found the issue and repaired it to a total of $ 300. It seems to work much better now and all feels right, when I use it. $ 300 for a protection plan, that will last till 5 years hence. Good deal, when you break it down on a yearly basis...$ 60 a year. Think about how complicated a camera body is...all the things that can happen to it, during that relatively long period of time. Think about how expensive it would be to replace that pricey camera ? That's my experience with Henry's. They came through and repaired my expensive lens, under their warranty. This kind of service is an important reason why I deal with this company.

05-17-2016, 10:04 PM	#23
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by Edgar_in_Indy $300 to fix a webcam? Was that a Mac? Lenovo...most of the wear or common-fail parts are modular and easily replaced, but the Web camp requires a fairly extensive tear down. At least that is they way I read the service description before I decided to not do it myself. The nice thing is that Lenovo publishes detailed procedures to service almost everything. Steve

05-18-2016, 04:25 AM	#24
Edgar_in_Indy Veteran Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Indiana, USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,685	Originally posted by stevebrot Lenovo...most of the wear or common-fail parts are modular and easily replaced, but the Web camp requires a fairly extensive tear down. At least that is they way I read the service description before I decided to not do it myself. The nice thing is that Lenovo publishes detailed procedures to service almost everything. I've worked on a lot of laptops, and replaced a lot of screens, and generally you remove some screws and then you can start popping body panels off. Once the screen bezel is off then the webcam should be exposed sitting just above the LCD panel. YouTube will often have videos of LCD screen replacement being performed on various models that you could follow as a walk-through. If you find a video for your model, then you might be able to see how difficult it would actually be to get to the webcam.