Unavailability hurting sales?

reh321 · 05-18-2016, 10:08 AM

Originally posted by TaoMaas

LOL No...Pentax pulled out of my state.

Did they pull out or did the locals stop carrying them?

Originally posted by TaoMaas

That's my point. How can they sell something that new buyers can't even hold? Unless you know me, there's almost nowhere else to see a Pentax DSLR. Call me crazy, but I think that's an impediment to sales.

And what do you want them to do about it? Throwing enough money at market-building activities wouldn't leave them any funds to do anything else.

johnmflores · 05-18-2016, 10:23 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by TaoMaas

LOL No...Pentax pulled out of my state. That's my point. How can they sell something that new buyers can't even hold? Unless you know me, there's almost nowhere else to see a Pentax DSLR. Call me crazy, but I think that's an impediment to sales.

It's interesting that in an era where internet sales is completely rewriting the retail landscape (Apple killing record stores, Netflix killing Blockbuster, Zappos killing shoe stores, Amazon killing everyone else) some still think that a strong retail presence is absolutely necessary for success. At this point in time I'd hazard a guess that a vast majority of enthusiast-level cameras and accessories are purchased online.

Come think of it, I think that I'll start a survey.

I don't begrudge you wanting to hold a camera in your hand before making a purchase. That's your own choice. But I do question whether your personal preference is as critical to Ricoh's success as you think it is.

TaoMaas · 05-18-2016, 10:26 AM

So if you're a young photographer and have never seen a Pentax camera...and they're not in any stores...how would a prospective buyer even know to consider them? Heck, I had to argue with a camera store owner here that Pentax even made DSLRs. He was convinced they didn't exist.

Regarding the question that started this thread: No, I don't think the K-1 being on backorder is hurting sales that much because I think the people who are wanting one are already in the Pentax fold and you either want one or not.

johnmflores · 05-18-2016, 10:39 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by TaoMaas

So if you're a young photographer and have never seen a Pentax camera...and they're not in any stores...how would a prospective buyer even know to consider them? Heck, I had to argue with a camera store owner here that Pentax even made DSLRs. He was convinced they didn't exist.

Regarding the question that started this thread: No, I don't think the K-1 being on backorder is hurting sales that much because I think the people who are wanting one are already in the Pentax fold and you either want one or not.

If you're a young photographer you probably started taking photos with your phone and shared them via Instagram. And you hear of and research new cameras on places like The Verge, reddit.com/r/photography, and YouTube while surfing from your phone. And you buy new cameras using the Amazon app on your phone and have no qualms about returning items if they disappoint you, so the unboxing experience has to be good and those first shots better be money. Magazines? What are those? Retail stores? You kidding me?

bdery · 05-18-2016, 01:07 PM

Originally posted by TaoMaas

So if you're a young photographer and have never seen a Pentax camera...and they're not in any stores...how would a prospective buyer even know to consider them?

If you're young you browse the web, read reviews, get information overload and you'll know about Pentax.

Originally posted by TaoMaas

I had to argue with a camera store owner here that Pentax even made DSLRs. He was convinced they didn't exist.

He's thus obviously not competent enough to subscribe to at least one photo magazine or one photo news website. It doesn't prove that customers don't know Pentax.

**jatrax** · 05-18-2016, 01:10 PM

Originally posted by TaoMaas

So if you're a young photographer and have never seen a Pentax camera...and they're not in any stores...how would a prospective buyer even know to consider them?

I have never seen a Pentax camera in a retail store. Oh wait, that's wrong I did see a Spotmatic in a display case at a shop once.

Anyway, I bought my first Pentax, the k-x, by doing online research. I put into a 'camera finder' site the things that were important to me. The k-x came up so I bought it. Simple. And that is how 'young people' buy things. They do not go into camera shops and talk to salespeople. They don't trust salespeople, or shops. They do their research, sometimes for weeks or months then they research who has the best price and best return policy. All online. Then they buy.

Much as I hate to see the camera shops go, they are no longer a major sales channel, and hardly even noticed by 'young people'.

mohb · 05-18-2016, 01:43 PM - **3 Likes**

Originally posted by jatrax

And that is how 'young people' buy things.

I'm seventy and bought my K7, Kx, K50 and K5ll online without ever going in a camera shop, in fact the last camera I bought from a shop was a Minolta 9000

normhead · 05-18-2016, 01:56 PM

Originally posted by mohb

I'm seventy and bought my K7, Kx, K50 and K5ll online without ever going in a camera shop, in fact the last camera I bought from a shop was a Minolta 9000

I got my Pentax Program Plus and my *ist DL from a shop. So the last camera I bought from a store was 2006, 10 years ago.

**BigMackCam** · 05-18-2016, 01:57 PM

Originally posted by mohb

I'm seventy and bought my K7, Kx, K50 and K5ll online without ever going in a camera shop, in fact the last camera I bought from a shop was a Minolta 9000

I hear that

I got into photography quite late on. My first DSLR was a Nikon D40X, but I lusted after the Pentax K-7 after reading some reviews in the amateur photographic press. They were mixed in their views, but I loved the feature set, the heavy build quality and the WR. I bought my K-7 mail order without ever seeing one. Same with my K-5. I did go to a shop in London to pick up a K-3, but only because I'd called around and knew they had one in - so I could go pick it up faster than Royal Mail could deliver

My most recent DSLR, the K-3II, was also bought online, sight unseen. All but one of my Pentax lenses was bought online, including all of my DA Limiteds. My Q and Q7 were bought online, as well as the lenses for those...

johnmflores · 05-18-2016, 02:17 PM

Originally posted by mohb

I'm seventy and bought my K7, Kx, K50 and K5ll online without ever going in a camera shop, in fact the last camera I bought from a shop was a Minolta 9000

Kids these days!

reh321 · 05-18-2016, 02:34 PM

I bought my Pentax Super Program at a shop in 1984 and its successor, a Canon EOS Elan, at a shop in 1995. Every camera since then has come via "mail order".

**THoog** · 05-18-2016, 02:53 PM

Wow, I'm actually an exception - I bought my K-30 in a camera store in 2012, but that was a fluke and an intentional effort to support B&M stores. It's the closest Pentax dealer to me (only a five hour drive!), and I had to demonstrate all the camera's features to the salesperson, who admitted knowing nothing about Pentax. All my other DSLRs were bought online. Apart from a P&S bought while on a trip, the last camera purchase in a store was a P30t in a Service Merchandise catalog showroom around 1989.

victormeldrew · 05-18-2016, 03:03 PM

It must also be fairly local. My local Jessop's (chain enthusiast store in the UK) has a K50 and a few lenses and will order in anything you want...and the people there speak warmly of Pentax even though they are clearly Canikon-centric. In the next big city there is a Pentax Authorised Dealer where I bought my K3II (click and collect at the best price I could find anywhere, including online) and they have a good range of glass and not a Canikon in sight.

If people don't stock Pentax, I don't blame Pentax. The store has clearly sold out to a bung from the Canikon distributor...that's a poor store, not a poor manufacturer.

**RobA_Oz** · 05-18-2016, 03:59 PM

It seems Ricoh are faced with the same initial situation they had with the 645Z. Whether they regard it as a problem or not depends on what they anticipated would happen, and whether they consider it's better to have the market think they've been surprised at the demand, than to have lots of stock sitting around, waiting to be sold. How quickly the next batch gets out to stores may be of more importance than a perceived shortage right now. I haven't seen any locally, yet, unlike when the K-3 hit the market, but this is a pricier item to have in a shop window.

TaoMaas · 05-18-2016, 04:04 PM

Originally posted by mohb

I'm seventy and bought my K7, Kx, K50 and K5ll online without ever going in a camera shop...

Same here...but I had no choice because there was no shop you could visit that carried Pentax. Now, if I were looking for a Nikon, Canon, Sony, Fuji, Olympus, Samsung, or Panasonic...I could have seen those. Are those arguing against brick-and-mortar stores really trying to imply that Pentax is the smart one and every other brand that's kicking it's ass is dumb?

05-18-2016, 10:23 AM - 1 Like	#32
johnmflores Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Somerville, NJ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,361	Originally posted by TaoMaas LOL No...Pentax pulled out of my state. That's my point. How can they sell something that new buyers can't even hold? Unless you know me, there's almost nowhere else to see a Pentax DSLR. Call me crazy, but I think that's an impediment to sales. It's interesting that in an era where internet sales is completely rewriting the retail landscape (Apple killing record stores, Netflix killing Blockbuster, Zappos killing shoe stores, Amazon killing everyone else) some still think that a strong retail presence is absolutely necessary for success. At this point in time I'd hazard a guess that a vast majority of enthusiast-level cameras and accessories are purchased online. Come think of it, I think that I'll start a survey. I don't begrudge you wanting to hold a camera in your hand before making a purchase. That's your own choice. But I do question whether your personal preference is as critical to Ricoh's success as you think it is. Last edited by johnmflores; 05-18-2016 at 11:19 AM.

05-18-2016, 10:26 AM	#33
TaoMaas Pentaxian Join Date: May 2007 Location: Oklahoma City Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,574	So if you're a young photographer and have never seen a Pentax camera...and they're not in any stores...how would a prospective buyer even know to consider them? Heck, I had to argue with a camera store owner here that Pentax even made DSLRs. He was convinced they didn't exist. Regarding the question that started this thread: No, I don't think the K-1 being on backorder is hurting sales that much because I think the people who are wanting one are already in the Pentax fold and you either want one or not. Last edited by TaoMaas; 05-18-2016 at 10:32 AM.

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05-18-2016, 10:08 AM	#31
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,184	Originally posted by TaoMaas LOL No...Pentax pulled out of my state. Did they pull out or did the locals stop carrying them? Originally posted by TaoMaas That's my point. How can they sell something that new buyers can't even hold? Unless you know me, there's almost nowhere else to see a Pentax DSLR. Call me crazy, but I think that's an impediment to sales. And what do you want them to do about it? Throwing enough money at market-building activities wouldn't leave them any funds to do anything else.

05-18-2016, 10:39 AM - 1 Like	#34
johnmflores Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Somerville, NJ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,361	Originally posted by TaoMaas So if you're a young photographer and have never seen a Pentax camera...and they're not in any stores...how would a prospective buyer even know to consider them? Heck, I had to argue with a camera store owner here that Pentax even made DSLRs. He was convinced they didn't exist. Regarding the question that started this thread: No, I don't think the K-1 being on backorder is hurting sales that much because I think the people who are wanting one are already in the Pentax fold and you either want one or not. If you're a young photographer you probably started taking photos with your phone and shared them via Instagram. And you hear of and research new cameras on places like The Verge, reddit.com/r/photography, and YouTube while surfing from your phone. And you buy new cameras using the Amazon app on your phone and have no qualms about returning items if they disappoint you, so the unboxing experience has to be good and those first shots better be money. Magazines? What are those? Retail stores? You kidding me?

05-18-2016, 01:07 PM	#35
bdery Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Quebec city, Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,362	Originally posted by TaoMaas So if you're a young photographer and have never seen a Pentax camera...and they're not in any stores...how would a prospective buyer even know to consider them? If you're young you browse the web, read reviews, get information overload and you'll know about Pentax. Originally posted by TaoMaas I had to argue with a camera store owner here that Pentax even made DSLRs. He was convinced they didn't exist. He's thus obviously not competent enough to subscribe to at least one photo magazine or one photo news website. It doesn't prove that customers don't know Pentax.

05-18-2016, 01:10 PM	#36
jatrax Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cascades Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,991	Originally posted by TaoMaas So if you're a young photographer and have never seen a Pentax camera...and they're not in any stores...how would a prospective buyer even know to consider them? I have never seen a Pentax camera in a retail store. Oh wait, that's wrong I did see a Spotmatic in a display case at a shop once. Anyway, I bought my first Pentax, the k-x, by doing online research. I put into a 'camera finder' site the things that were important to me. The k-x came up so I bought it. Simple. And that is how 'young people' buy things. They do not go into camera shops and talk to salespeople. They don't trust salespeople, or shops. They do their research, sometimes for weeks or months then they research who has the best price and best return policy. All online. Then they buy. Much as I hate to see the camera shops go, they are no longer a major sales channel, and hardly even noticed by 'young people'.

05-18-2016, 01:43 PM - 3 Likes	#37
mohb Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Photos: Albums Posts: 1,912	Originally posted by jatrax And that is how 'young people' buy things. I'm seventy and bought my K7, Kx, K50 and K5ll online without ever going in a camera shop, in fact the last camera I bought from a shop was a Minolta 9000

05-18-2016, 01:56 PM	#38
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	Originally posted by mohb I'm seventy and bought my K7, Kx, K50 and K5ll online without ever going in a camera shop, in fact the last camera I bought from a shop was a Minolta 9000 I got my Pentax Program Plus and my *ist DL from a shop. So the last camera I bought from a store was 2006, 10 years ago.

05-18-2016, 01:57 PM	#39
BigMackCam Digitiser of Film Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: North East of England Posts: 20,687	Originally posted by mohb I'm seventy and bought my K7, Kx, K50 and K5ll online without ever going in a camera shop, in fact the last camera I bought from a shop was a Minolta 9000 I hear that I got into photography quite late on. My first DSLR was a Nikon D40X, but I lusted after the Pentax K-7 after reading some reviews in the amateur photographic press. They were mixed in their views, but I loved the feature set, the heavy build quality and the WR. I bought my K-7 mail order without ever seeing one. Same with my K-5. I did go to a shop in London to pick up a K-3, but only because I'd called around and knew they had one in - so I could go pick it up faster than Royal Mail could deliver My most recent DSLR, the K-3II, was also bought online, sight unseen. All but one of my Pentax lenses was bought online, including all of my DA Limiteds. My Q and Q7 were bought online, as well as the lenses for those...

05-18-2016, 02:17 PM	#40
johnmflores Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Somerville, NJ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,361	Originally posted by mohb I'm seventy and bought my K7, Kx, K50 and K5ll online without ever going in a camera shop, in fact the last camera I bought from a shop was a Minolta 9000 Kids these days!

05-18-2016, 02:34 PM	#41
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,184	I bought my Pentax Super Program at a shop in 1984 and its successor, a Canon EOS Elan, at a shop in 1995. Every camera since then has come via "mail order".

05-18-2016, 02:53 PM	#42
THoog Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: North Carolina Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,685	Wow, I'm actually an exception - I bought my K-30 in a camera store in 2012, but that was a fluke and an intentional effort to support B&M stores. It's the closest Pentax dealer to me (only a five hour drive!), and I had to demonstrate all the camera's features to the salesperson, who admitted knowing nothing about Pentax. All my other DSLRs were bought online. Apart from a P&S bought while on a trip, the last camera purchase in a store was a P30t in a Service Merchandise catalog showroom around 1989.

05-18-2016, 03:03 PM	#43
victormeldrew Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: South West UK Photos: Albums Posts: 1,493	It must also be fairly local. My local Jessop's (chain enthusiast store in the UK) has a K50 and a few lenses and will order in anything you want...and the people there speak warmly of Pentax even though they are clearly Canikon-centric. In the next big city there is a Pentax Authorised Dealer where I bought my K3II (click and collect at the best price I could find anywhere, including online) and they have a good range of glass and not a Canikon in sight. If people don't stock Pentax, I don't blame Pentax. The store has clearly sold out to a bung from the Canikon distributor...that's a poor store, not a poor manufacturer.

05-18-2016, 03:59 PM	#44
RobA_Oz Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Tasmania, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,209	It seems Ricoh are faced with the same initial situation they had with the 645Z. Whether they regard it as a problem or not depends on what they anticipated would happen, and whether they consider it's better to have the market think they've been surprised at the demand, than to have lots of stock sitting around, waiting to be sold. How quickly the next batch gets out to stores may be of more importance than a perceived shortage right now. I haven't seen any locally, yet, unlike when the K-3 hit the market, but this is a pricier item to have in a shop window.

05-18-2016, 04:04 PM	#45
TaoMaas Pentaxian Join Date: May 2007 Location: Oklahoma City Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,574	Originally posted by mohb I'm seventy and bought my K7, Kx, K50 and K5ll online without ever going in a camera shop... Same here...but I had no choice because there was no shop you could visit that carried Pentax. Now, if I were looking for a Nikon, Canon, Sony, Fuji, Olympus, Samsung, or Panasonic...I could have seen those. Are those arguing against brick-and-mortar stores really trying to imply that Pentax is the smart one and every other brand that's kicking it's ass is dumb?