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05-27-2016, 10:41 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by acoufap Quote
Adobe seems to use the dng format as "workspace containers" for their applications and stores working instructions in it and CO simply doesn't understand these application specific dng containers.
You are correct. From what I can tell, Adobe created DNG with the intent of using it as a common container for interoperability between its products. An image referred to Photoshop from Lightroom comes with its full processing history intact and understandable. This is a huge advantage. The only difficulty is getting buy in from a user base that leverages multiple non-Adobe tools.


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05-28-2016, 01:47 AM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
You are correct. From what I can tell, Adobe created DNG with the intent of using it as a common container for interoperability between its products. An image referred to Photoshop from Lightroom comes with its full processing history intact and understandable. This is a huge advantage. The only difficulty is getting buy in from a user base that leverages multiple non-Adobe tools.
Thanks for that. Part of my indifference or even opposition to DNG over the years is the fact that I never saw the need for it as long as Canon or Nikon didn't adopt it and they never did for a reason. I believe that what you wrote is a large part of that reason. Adobe looking very altruistic by releasing a new and useful standard into the open domain (as some would have it) but at the same time guaranteeing their software a one-up in the future against other producers.

All of the other debates happen against this backdrop: authenticity and usability of hints and makernotes, risks file corruption by having to store and restore the whole DNG after every edit, file size, one-way conversion limitation - it all pales in comparison to that one true big reason why Adobe is so trigger-happy to herd us all into the use of DNG. .
05-28-2016, 05:18 AM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
No significant difference. I recently tested with the K-1 and PEF files were about (on average) 300k smaller. On 45mb files that really doesn't matter.
Thanks
05-28-2016, 02:52 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by newmikey Quote
Thanks for that. Part of my indifference or even opposition to DNG over the years is the fact that I never saw the need for it as long as Canon or Nikon didn't adopt it and they never did for a reason. I believe that what you wrote is a large part of that reason. Adobe looking very altruistic by releasing a new and useful standard into the open domain (as some would have it) but at the same time guaranteeing their software a one-up in the future against other producers.

All of the other debates happen against this backdrop: authenticity and usability of hints and makernotes, risks file corruption by having to store and restore the whole DNG after every edit, file size, one-way conversion limitation - it all pales in comparison to that one true big reason why Adobe is so trigger-happy to herd us all into the use of DNG. .
But Nikon and Canon don't compete with Adobe. And the majority of their users use Adobe products.

And Adobe's purpose in creating DNG was for more than use among it's products. After all Photoshop ruled the world of pixel graphics, and PSD documents had already become a kind of defacto standard. And there were many well established file formats. DNG was also designed to promote archiving (it's a preferred format for the Library of Congress, eg) and to eliminate the need for constantly reinventing conversions for RAW. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Negative. Indeed, DNG actually made it easier for some of Adobe's competitors because people use the free DNG converter to make their RAW usable in competitor's products; I've had more than one vendor suggest that because they hadn't done their own RAW converter yet.

DNG is less prone to file corruption because it's the only image format with data validation, DNG Validation | dpBestflow. And you can embed a proprietary RAW into a DNG if you wish and then remove it; no proprietary RAW file format lets you do that since they ALL can only be written in the camera.

You certainly don't have to use DNG. Pentax isn't "herding" you into DNG, and you can use your camera without using any Adobe product. Just continue to use the proprietary RAWs that the camera manufacturer "herds" you into, since many many developers provide conversion, even if you have to wait a bit for it to be developed.

05-28-2016, 03:03 PM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by Oakland Rob Quote
...even if you have to wait a bit for it to be developed.
I have never had to wait for more than 48 hours - after release of a new camera which I hadn't yet got around to buying...None of my software has ever stopped being able to convert proprietary raw formats even back to the hacked raw of my first digital QV4000 (2003).

But hey, the discussion is not mine at all as I do not fit in with any of this. I've been using F/OSS for over 12 years now and really don't care for the whole discussion, one way or the other. In the unlikely case I'd ever, ever, need to use DNG I will always be able to convert my PEFs to it. So all things considered, for now PEF seems the most future proof as well as being quite sufficient for my today needs.
07-11-2016, 03:29 AM - 1 Like   #36
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Read this elsewhere...

How to make Lightroom use the Pentax profiles on your raw images...

Here is how to do it:
1 - use DNG in the file format in your camera ( it doesn't work with PEF )
2 - take a pic and import to LR
3 - go to the calibration tab ( bottom right of your screen ). click on the rolling menu to see all options ( including adobe standard, etc...). Select 'Embedded'. That's the Pentax profile included in your DNG file.
4 - go to upper menus and select Develop > New pre-set. Save under a name of your choice.
5 - Still under Develop, select default settings. Select the preset you just created in the box asking for pre-set to apply on import.
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