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05-29-2016, 09:20 AM - 1 Like   #31
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If you have a nice collection of Pentax lenses stay with Pentax that said not knowing how or what you shoot, stay with a DSLR unless the size is causing you IMMENSE pain.

05-29-2016, 09:38 AM - 1 Like   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by ularula Quote
Curious about the benefits of Pixel Shift, maybe that's gimmickry on K-3ii
No gimmickry. Also, the motion correction added for the K-1 is not in the camera but in the updated DCU 5.5.1, so it works for K-3II pixel shift shots too.
05-29-2016, 09:46 AM - 2 Likes   #33
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ularula - I shoot a lot of shows, events, and weddings. My main camera is the K3 and it stacks up well again my competition with 5dMK3, D4s, and other wonderful cameras. My second camera was my K200D which was great and which I just retired yesterday. I'm photographing a very large music festival this weekend and the KS2 is now side by side with my K3.

Farewell dedication to my K200D (https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/6-pentax-dslr-discussion/129204-anyone-el...-k200d-49.html)

Here is a dynamic range test that I did with the KS2 to see if it would be good enough. Clearly it did just fine. BTW - the KS2 is built like a brick and it's very fast.


Pentax KS-2 Testing
by John Rudolph, on Flickr

and an ISO 3200 test pushed to ISO 6400

KS-2 testing ISO 3200 pushed nearly 1 stop
by John Rudolph, on Flickr

Last edited by john5100; 05-29-2016 at 09:56 AM.
05-29-2016, 10:23 AM - 1 Like   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by ularula Quote
Rupert, I haven't jumped! In fact, posting here is to get some solid advice from Pentax users.
Yep...and I severely reprimanded that famous squirrel that woke me up so early to excitedly tell me he found a Jumper! You will get solid advice here...just listen to it and you will be just fine. Nothing against mirrorless...but I think the broad range of Pentax pentaprism features have a distinct advantage for most shooters. That's for you to figure out and decide.....I'm certain you will listen and make a choice that suits your needs best.

Best Regards!

05-29-2016, 12:37 PM   #35
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Buy into the lens system first then the body

If you already have a sizeable investment in Pentax lenses and you like them then you have your answer. If you don't have an investment or you like another manufacturers line better and you can't get the equivalent in Pentax then buy that line. But the mirrorless versus DSLR misses the point in my view. Lenses last much longer than the body and at this point make more of a difference.
05-29-2016, 02:16 PM - 1 Like   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
Both kinds of cameras have their pros and cons.

I think life is too short to stick with just one camera, i've gone from the K3 (still have) to the Sony A7r2. I feel like having tried a different kind of camera, that its given me a better appreciation of photography in general. Part of that is due to if you're going to take advantage of the low weight of the Sony mirrorless bodies, the best way of doing that is using their smaller primes. The combination of lightweight/small body with small but fast primes results in a low-light monster. Love it.

But i miss the things that Pentax does well: to name a few:
a. sonic cleaning of the sensor works on the Pentax DSLRs, doesn't work well on Sony A7x - not sure it does anything productive
b. Automatic horizon correction - a real pp time saver
c. WR,
d. Exposure meter - Pentax has one that works and gives you a visual readout. Sony implementation is wimpy, but you do get to see "effects on" in your EVF and monitor
e. My K3 has a low light focus that is quite effective. Sony's works best with fast lenses. On the other hand, Sony's tracking is more effective than Pentax.

I disagree that the make of your camera is a religion. Try more than one and pick the one you like is my advice.
Thanks for the feedback, especially the differences you see having used both Pentax and Sony A7. Would have thought senor cleaning would work best on systems with IBIS (ie. worst on Fuji), but there you see, experience counts! Camera choice isn't a religion for me at least, just not seeing that I have the money to invest in two sets of lens series!

---------- Post added 05-29-16 at 02:31 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Fauxton Quote
If you already have a sizeable investment in Pentax lenses and you like them then you have your answer. If you don't have an investment or you like another manufacturers line better and you can't get the equivalent in Pentax then buy that line. But the mirrorless versus DSLR misses the point in my view. Lenses last much longer than the body and at this point make more of a difference.
I don't have an extensive line of Pentax lenses, that's not my main point. But reading about camera tech and seeing sales numbers, not to say profits, I dare say there is a kind of struggle between mirrorless newcomers and Dslrs.

However, my question was about the ergonomics, the practical functionality that I have with a Pentax that mirrorless at present will not give me. Examples like battery life, like less distortion on certain lenses compared to m43 (new to me at least), like the difference between EVF and OVF (pros and cons), avoiding digging into menus.

And I need to evaluate if wifi is nice to have or need (in its current implementation on many systems it seems - e.g. Nikons brand new D500 wifi implementation seems also not to be a star performer on that front). Still would like a screen that is tiltable.

To sum it up, I guess I want something like the K-1, but with with slightly less weight!

---------- Post added 05-29-16 at 02:36 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by john5100 Quote
ularula - I shoot a lot of shows, events, and weddings. My main camera is the K3 and it stacks up well again my competition with 5dMK3, D4s, and other wonderful cameras. My second camera was my K200D which was great and which I just retired yesterday. I'm photographing a very large music festival this weekend and the KS2 is now side by side with my K3.

Farewell dedication to my K200D (https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/6-pentax-dslr-discussion/129204-anyone-el...-k200d-49.html)

Here is a dynamic range test that I did with the KS2 to see if it would be good enough. Clearly it did just fine. BTW - the KS2 is built like a brick and it's very fast.


Pentax KS-2 Testing
by John Rudolph, on Flickr

and an ISO 3200 test pushed to ISO 6400

KS-2 testing ISO 3200 pushed nearly 1 stop
by John Rudolph, on Flickr
Really apreciate this. Will read more on the KS-2! And so great to hear about the K200d being used for a long time!

---------- Post added 05-29-16 at 02:38 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Quartermaster James Quote
No gimmickry. Also, the motion correction added for the K-1 is not in the camera but in the updated DCU 5.5.1, so it works for K-3II pixel shift shots too.
So K-3 ii gets the same fix as the K-1 has for pixel shift! Thats awesome!
05-29-2016, 02:39 PM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by ularula Quote
To sum it up, I guess I want something like the K-1, but with with slightly less weight!
Well then a Sony A7rII is your answer.
You've ruled out the K-1 as too heavy. That's what is left. The lenses are good but expensive, you'll pay more than twice what I pay for a similar K-3 system, but you'll have what you want. Problem solved... next.
05-29-2016, 02:58 PM - 1 Like   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by ularula Quote

To sum it up, I guess I want something like the K-1, but with with slightly less weight!
Yeah, you want a K-3II ... don't fight it... relax ... accept the K-3II into your life ... resistance is futile!

That said, the main piece of advice I give to people asking for a recommendation about which camera to buy is to get somewhere and handle them. See which falls-to-hand most easily. For me, returning to photography after a multi-decade absence, I like the K-3/K-3II build.

Don't get me wrong: I do want a K-1, but mainly just for my SMC Pentax M f2 85mm. I really want to use that lens on a full frame camera!

05-29-2016, 03:02 PM - 1 Like   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Problem solved... next.
I like your style Norm.....like the Seinfeld Soup Nazi......"No soup for you...get out....Next!"

I see the OP is not a regular poster here.....but there is another consideration that carries a great deal of importance...at least to me and many others. I have two Fuji cameras and have not found the Fuji sites to come anywhere near what we have here at Pentax Forums. Here you have it all.....everything, and it's here and alive and active 24/7 365. Help is always here, conversation and plenty of detailed photographic information. Thousands of friendly people...and old Norm too! ( Just kidding Norm!)

I don't know about all the other brands, but I do know that none come close to what is found here. That can be very important when you have questions, or need help. Of course, there is always DPR if you go with another brand..... and like for people to beat you up and treat you like an idiot, it's a great place!

Regards!
05-29-2016, 04:00 PM   #40
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Rupert, the guy calls me the Soup Nazi, and then tries to kiss and make up in the same post. Well, what ever I can cut you off from Rupert, I'm cutting you off, as soon as I can figure out what that might be.

I'd stop posting squirrel pictures, but that wouldn't be fair to Otis.
05-29-2016, 05:21 PM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
I'd stop posting squirrel pictures, but that wouldn't be fair to Otis.
Otis loves you Norm.....Otis loves me, not so much...so he understands your point of view!

Regards!
05-29-2016, 06:51 PM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by ularula Quote
Also, picked up that M43 has distortion isues on RAW with wideangle. I always shoot RAW+jpeg, having to just use jpegs for wideangle seems a bit problematic.
Most RAW converters automatically correct distortion on m4/3 lenses, just like they do with with modern DSLR lenses.

I'd strongly recommend seeking the advice of the folks on https://www.photographerslounge.org/ Many members there - and on their sister websites - shoot multiple formats and have more accurate and unbiased information than you can find here at PF. Lots of images to look at, too.

Last edited by luftfluss; 05-29-2016 at 06:56 PM.
05-29-2016, 07:09 PM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by ularula Quote
Thanks for the feedback, especially the differences you see having used both Pentax and Sony A7.
Haven't you considered Leica SL? It also has no mirror.
05-30-2016, 02:48 AM   #44
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I know I am a little late to the discussion. I would echo would everyone else said with regard to your K10. It is a camera that has been surpassed by basically every camera on the market. If you need a tilt screen there are numerous options from Pentax and from other companies -- the KS-2 and K-1 would be current cameras that have it. My experience with wifi is that it isn't terribly useful. You certainly aren't going to use it to transfer RAW files, which can be pretty huge, but for transferring jpegs to a phone or other device it can work, but takes time and is a little clunky.

The biggest thing that mirrorless has over SLRs right now is video implementation. You said this wasn't terribly important to you, but many mirrorless cameras shoot 4K video and are easier to focus with the use of the EVF.

Size depends on what you shoot. Shooting fast zooms or longer lenses will end up giving you a pretty similar sized package, although with mirrorless you have a smaller body and a slightly larger lens.

I don't know what to say about the whole EVF versus OVF discussion except that tastes differ. EVFs definitely consume battery life, but some people love the focus aids and exposure help they get from them. I mostly auto focus and so have little need for that (chimping works fine for exposure questions).

At this point, I don't think there are any bad cameras on the market, you just need to choose what will work best for you. I would encourage you to think more about lenses than about camera bodies though, as it is the glass that you will carry with you for years, while the bodies come and go.
05-30-2016, 09:00 AM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Haven't you considered Leica SL? It also has no mirror.
A Leica is more in the Porsche territory price wise! Not for my budget (which could stretch to K3 + extra lenses, or K1/Fuji XT-2 or Sony A7 iii with one prime and kit lens)

---------- Post added 05-30-16 at 09:26 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I know I am a little late to the discussion. I would echo would everyone else said with regard to your K10. It is a camera that has been surpassed by basically every camera on the market. If you need a tilt screen there are numerous options from Pentax and from other companies -- the KS-2 and K-1 would be current cameras that have it. My experience with wifi is that it isn't terribly useful. You certainly aren't going to use it to transfer RAW files, which can be pretty huge, but for transferring jpegs to a phone or other device it can work, but takes time and is a little clunky.

The biggest thing that mirrorless has over SLRs right now is video implementation. You said this wasn't terribly important to you, but many mirrorless cameras shoot 4K video and are easier to focus with the use of the EVF.

Size depends on what you shoot. Shooting fast zooms or longer lenses will end up giving you a pretty similar sized package, although with mirrorless you have a smaller body and a slightly larger lens.

I don't know what to say about the whole EVF versus OVF discussion except that tastes differ. EVFs definitely consume battery life, but some people love the focus aids and exposure help they get from them. I mostly auto focus and so have little need for that (chimping works fine for exposure questions).

At this point, I don't think there are any bad cameras on the market, you just need to choose what will work best for you. I would encourage you to think more about lenses than about camera bodies though, as it is the glass that you will carry with you for years, while the bodies come and go.
Reading your advice - and many others here, I'm thinking of sticking with Pentax. Maybe the KS-2 (I can buy more lenses), maybe the K-3 ii, really liked the Pixel Shift motion correction in pp software option.

Battery seems to be a problem for now with all mirrorless, for many it's totally OK to remember a lot of spares. But I would prefer to forgo spares in every pocket...

EVFs are maturing. Only tried a Fuji from a few years back (can't recall exact model and year), found the EVF strange, a bit unreal. But looked briefly at a GX8, seemed better. Maybe it's an adaption thing.

Video is really low on my list, so that makes one less advantage for mirrorless.

After some input and thinking, wifi is not that important, or most implementations seem slow, liimited?

Articulated or tiltable screen though... Well, not imperative, but nice. Really.

Hyperprogram seems still to be a unique Pentax thing? Minolta might have had something similar...

Grip goes in favour of a DSLR (or a Sony A7).

Thanks for all the input!

---------- Post added 05-30-16 at 09:27 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
Most RAW converters automatically correct distortion on m4/3 lenses, just like they do with with modern DSLR lenses.

I'd strongly recommend seeking the advice of the folks on https://www.photographerslounge.org/ Many members there - and on their sister websites - shoot multiple formats and have more accurate and unbiased information than you can find here at PF. Lots of images to look at, too.
Will check up, thanks!
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