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06-27-2016, 01:04 AM   #91
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
There are professional wedding photographers using Sony mirrorless. There are Tamron 150-600 and Sigma 150-600 Contemporary and Sports models available in A-mount that work just fine on my A7rII. I presently have a Sony 85 f2.8 that sells new from BH for $300, A-mount, with the LAEA3 adapter. Its SAM motor is 2 generations of focus motors behind the current Sony linear voice coil motors and the SSM motors. But even the older SAM motorized lens works faster than than my K3 with its 50-135, even after the SDM motor wakes up. As for tracking, my K3 DSLR doesn't compare.

I used Sony's lock-on flex spot tracking mode with my FE 70-200 to shoot models on a fashion runway about a month back, and it allowed me to shoot as it continued to track the models - so cool

Getting back to long lenses, the Sony a-mount also contains a 70-400 G2 with SSM focus motors and i've seen both bird and wildlife pictures from that lens that are as high in resolution as what i've seen from a friends Nikon D5. I don't think its going to be long before this a-mount lens is converted by Sony to FE. But in the meantime it AFs just fine on either of the two Sony electronic adapters.

Sony is catching up and at least one pundit believes that their latest f2.8 zooms are intended for a more professional body than the A7 series.
Man this isn't about you and me you know. If it is to say that Sony or other mirrorless are good enough for most use. This is true. Like any DSLR too. If you know your stuff, you should be able to bypass any of your gear limitation. After all everybody was shooting MF and film at some point in time. And there was already sport/action/wildlife shoot by then.

Yes your Sony (and hopefully) can get the job done. This doesn't mean it is the best tool for the job. You can go as far as you want and explain how pratical it is to use that Sony with a 150-600 and how much better it is than a D5 with a 600 f/4 or 200-400f/4. This is not convincing. And comparing it to K3 and 50-135 is ridiculous. Nobody that want ultimate AF experience would even buy that.

06-27-2016, 02:30 AM   #92
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
There are professional wedding photographers using Sony mirrorless. There are Tamron 150-600 and Sigma 150-600 Contemporary and Sports models available in A-mount that work just fine on my A7rII. I presently have a Sony 85 f2.8 that sells new from BH for $300, A-mount, with the LAEA3 adapter. Its SAM motor is 2 generations of focus motors behind the current Sony linear voice coil motors and the SSM motors. But even the older SAM motorized lens works faster than than my K3 with its 50-135, even after the SDM motor wakes up. As for tracking, my K3 DSLR doesn't compare.

I used Sony's lock-on flex spot tracking mode with my FE 70-200 to shoot models on a fashion runway about a month back, and it allowed me to shoot as it continued to track the models - so cool

Getting back to long lenses, the Sony a-mount also contains a 70-400 G2 with SSM focus motors and i've seen both bird and wildlife pictures from that lens that are as high in resolution as what i've seen from a friends Nikon D5. I don't think its going to be long before this a-mount lens is converted by Sony to FE. But in the meantime it AFs just fine on either of the two Sony electronic adapters.

Sony is catching up and at least one pundit believes that their latest f2.8 zooms are intended for a more professional body than the A7 series.
Pentax has lagged behind with regard to auto focus and I think we know it. Probably more due to SDM than to camera bodies at this point. Certainly the new 70-200 and 150-450 combined with a K-1 work really well, track well and in very low light. They still aren't at the D5/D500 level, but pretty good in my opinion.

The biggest problem with Sony cameras, when used with large lenses, is more ergonomic. I prefer a little more meaty grip when using a big lens than what the A7 series offers currently. I imagine Sony will come out with something more along those lines in the future, but I can't imagine shooting for ten hours with a 70-200 f2.8 on an A7r. It sounds like a miserable experience.
06-27-2016, 02:34 AM   #93
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QuoteOriginally posted by ularula Quote
Heie, OK OK! I'll read up on the little one! Quality is probably way better than my ancient "Civic" (in fact, my first car...), but isn't the ergonomics quite similar?

---------- Post added 05-29-16 at 06:22 AM ----------

Na Horuk, not the KS-1? With the lights?

Done a lot of camerasize comparisons, and Pentax lenses, well, some primes are really small. If m43 often means zooms instead of primes, size advantage isn't that much of a factor.

Releasing a camera without Wifi in 2015 like the K-3ii is for me a mayor omission, and also not having some degree of movable display. Beside that a great camera! Just a tad disappointed about these omissions. Why do it on the KS2, but leave it out on the K-3ii? Different production team?
hi there.
I had a K5IIs, then K3II and now I put all my money in to K1. K1 is very nice and feature packed. Bit heavy but I like that solid feeling. Can't say anything bad about K5IIs and K3II either. Tracking AF wasn't on par with a competition but I don't think you will find anything that those cameras not going to be up to. Even the Flu card in my opinion worked better then WiFi on Sony a7 which I owned before. I've been hip hoping between the brands a lot and if I am not with Pentax, I would probably go back to Fuji for their great lenses, built quality and retro look but even then it wouldn't be perfect. There is not a perfect camera. So you have to decide what brand you want to stick with and then learn to work on the shortcomings which a part of every brand.
06-28-2016, 08:08 AM   #94
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Pentax has lagged behind with regard to auto focus and I think we know it. Probably more due to SDM than to camera bodies at this point. Certainly the new 70-200 and 150-450 combined with a K-1 work really well, track well and in very low light. They still aren't at the D5/D500 level, but pretty good in my opinion.

The biggest problem with Sony cameras, when used with large lenses, is more ergonomic. I prefer a little more meaty grip when using a big lens than what the A7 series offers currently. I imagine Sony will come out with something more along those lines in the future, but I can't imagine shooting for ten hours with a 70-200 f2.8 on an A7r. It sounds like a miserable experience.
AF performance to me is a layered thing. Most important is low-light static focusing and I think Pentax is as good if not better than most cameras at it. My old K3 is excellent in low light focusing and is better at it than my Sony mirrorless. Than one has tracking performance and I don't know where the K1 is at with that, but i would guess that my Sony mirrorless might be better at it with the right lenses. You lose tracking ability generally when you use adapters, even smart adapters with the Sony mirrorless.

As to long lenses, i think when a mfr gets to the 400mm area, thats a pretty good system at that point. With our much larger MP sensors, one can crop to reach beyond a 400mm level. So Sony with its a-mount 70-400 and Pentax with its native 150-450 are at pretty good point as a system. If one is a pure bird/wildlife shooter, than sure, look at something longer. But longer teles can be a pain, i've been told, shooting thru convection air currents, carrying the weight, etc. - so be careful what you wish for. The Sony A7x with the 70-200 f4, or the more recent 70-300 f5.6, are not that bad to carry a few blocks in a pack, but i wouldn't want to particularly travel with it all day or for a long walk-around.

06-29-2016, 02:21 PM   #95
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
The biggest problem with Sony cameras, when used with large lenses, is more ergonomic. I prefer a little more meaty grip when using a big lens than what the A7 series offers currently. I imagine Sony will come out with something more along those lines in the future, but I can't imagine shooting for ten hours with a 70-200 f2.8 on an A7r. It sounds like a miserable experience.
Lens size

  1. Keep your elbows together, against your chest.
  2. Keep your left hand under the lens, rather than on the side.
  3. Lean slightly into camera, holding it tight against the forehead.
  4. Keep your legs open
^^^grip ergonomics has nothing to do with the lens size. If your being tortured its your technique not the grip. Left hand always supports your lens.
06-29-2016, 02:23 PM   #96
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sliver-Surfer Quote
Lens size

  1. Keep your elbows together, against your chest.
  2. Keep your left hand under the lens, rather than on the side.
  3. Lean slightly into camera, holding it tight against the forehead.
  4. Keep your legs open
^^^grip ergonomics has nothing to do with the lens size. If your being tortured its your technique not the grip. Left hand always supports your lens.
Thanks. It isn't comfortable to shoot for 8 hours with a 70-200 f2.8 on a small camera. Yes, I hold the camera the way you suggest, but a chunky grip makes it more comfortable.

I'm glad you like shooting with small cameras and large lenses. To each their own.
06-29-2016, 02:31 PM - 1 Like   #97
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Thanks. It isn't comfortable to shoot for 8 hours with a 70-200 f2.8 on a small camera. Yes, I hold the camera the way you suggest, but a chunky grip makes it more comfortable.

I'm glad you like shooting with small cameras and large lenses. To each their own.
Well specify..ergonomics is not"the" biggest problem its "your" biggest problem with Sony. Yes
I do realize some people may have issues with the a7 ergonomics, but the reason why DSLRs Giant grips compared to their film predecessors is because of the Battery Hungry DSLRs needed somewhere to put the huge battery.

Last edited by Sliver-Surfer; 06-29-2016 at 03:15 PM.
06-29-2016, 03:32 PM   #98
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sliver-Surfer Quote
Well specify..ergonomics is not"the" biggest problem its "your" biggest problem with Sony. Yes
I do realize some people may have issues with the a7 ergonomics, but the reason why DSLRs Giant grips compared to their film predecessors is because of the Battery Hungry DSLRs needed somewhere to put the huge battery.
Odd. I thought mirrorless cameras were more battery hungry than SLRs.

06-29-2016, 05:54 PM   #99
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Odd. I thought mirrorless cameras were more battery hungry than SLRs.
They are. I'm talking about why DSLR Grips are large compared to their SLR predecessors. In the infancy of DSLRs the grip had to be larger than in SLR to accommodate the battery needed to run all the electronics of the camera. The average Joe consumer adapted well to it because it was like holding a Handycam, It will probably be not long before they evolve back to the slim grips like on sony a7II
06-29-2016, 06:20 PM   #100
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sliver-Surfer Quote
They are. I'm talking about why DSLR Grips are large compared to their SLR predecessors. In the infancy of DSLRs the grip had to be larger than in SLR to accommodate the battery needed to run all the electronics of the camera. The average Joe consumer adapted well to it because it was like holding a Handycam, It will probably be not long before they evolve back to the slim grips like on sony a7II
That's a hell of a story. Interesting that you believe it. IN one line you claim to know about the infancy of DSLRs, why the average Joe likes big grips, that big grips are a temporary thing and that we'll evolve back into slim grips.

What you don't know about is people who buy battery grips because they find a DSLR too small, people who buy battery grips because a K-3 charge doesn't last long enough for them, people who love the grips on most DSLRs because they like having something solid to hang onto for when using quick shift or MF lenses, or just to make the camera feel secure.

There's a great deal of actual DSLR user mindset that somehow hasn't penetrated your view of reality.

I don't agree with any of the above, well except for the part where I love the solidity of my K-3 grip in my hand and wouldn't trade it for a flat piece of meta (or plastic).l. Yet I'm aware of how important those things are to some people and why. I think you need to expand your horizons a bit.

There's a lot of folks out there who rightly think you're absolutely crackers for thinking you know so much about their preferences, when you're so wrong.
06-29-2016, 07:02 PM   #101
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sliver-Surfer Quote
They are. I'm talking about why DSLR Grips are large compared to their SLR predecessors. In the infancy of DSLRs the grip had to be larger than in SLR to accommodate the battery needed to run all the electronics of the camera. The average Joe consumer adapted well to it because it was like holding a Handycam, It will probably be not long before they evolve back to the slim grips like on sony a7II
I don't really buy your story. Cameras have gotten bigger as they add features. A camera like the original *ist D was very petite. However, when you start adding weather sealing, shake reduction, frame rates that were unheard of in the film era, and all the other features you expect with a modern camera, it does tend to increase the size somewhat.

That said, I own a K-S1 and it is very tiny for an SLR -- scarcely bigger than my K-01 and significantly more functional. It is fine with little lenses, but even the 50-135 is miserable on it.
06-29-2016, 07:43 PM   #102
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I don't really buy your story. Cameras have gotten bigger as they add features. A camera like the original *ist D was very petite. However, when you start adding weather sealing, shake reduction, frame rates that were unheard of in the film era, and all the other features you expect with a modern camera, it does tend to increase the size somewhat.

That said, I own a K-S1 and it is very tiny for an SLR -- scarcely bigger than my K-01 and significantly more functional. It is fine with little lenses, but even the 50-135 is miserable on it.
*ist D was about 5 years after Nikon and Canon's Introduction dslrs and used AA batteries not Lithium Rechargeable. All three of them also used Large Compact Flash cards as well which was another reason the cameras were made so beefy back then.
06-29-2016, 07:48 PM   #103
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I've got to admit, I'm one of those who learned on 35mm SLRs and never entirely got used to the overall size, chunky grips, PASM dials, big zoom lenses and such. Also, it seems like DSLRs now rival the size and performance that medium format film cameras once had -- but if that's the case, then what's today's counterpart of the 35mm SLR? Micro Four Thirds? Nikon 1? Pentax Q?

I was attracted to the Fuji X-T1, thinking I could take a nostalgia trip and go back to something closer in design to a 35mm SLR but with modern technology. However... Even though the grass is literally greener in Fuji land (colors are very accurate!), I'm finding myself gradually tilting toward the K-S2 instead. It didn't fit my preconceived notions of what I would prefer, but it hasn't taken me long to adapt and become comfortable with it.
06-29-2016, 07:51 PM   #104
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
What you don't know about is people who buy battery grips because they find a DSLR too small, people who buy battery grips because a K-3 charge doesn't last long enough for them, people who love the grips on most DSLRs because they like having something solid to hang onto for when using quick shift or MF lenses, or just to make the camera feel secure.
Most people buy battery grips to look like they know what they are doing .
06-29-2016, 10:45 PM   #105
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sliver-Surfer Quote
*ist D was about 5 years after Nikon and Canon's Introduction dslrs and used AA batteries not Lithium Rechargeable. All three of them also used Large Compact Flash cards as well which was another reason the cameras were made so beefy back then.
The story of big grips to store a small battery is non sense. Physically an A7 is big enough to hold a K3 batterie without interfering with the path of light with the sensor. The DSLR batteries have less capacity than a smart phone battery typically and theses one fit a smartphone, indeed. This doesn't explain why a D5 is big and why it is usually advertised with the grip on.

Try a 600 f/4 with an A7 and try it with a D5 and then we will discuss again. In all case the diminutive size of an mirrorless body is no argument when you have huge lenses to put on it. There more benefit to have something bigger, with more direct commands (like more wheels on K1), that feel better even with only one hand (if the other one is holding a flash for example) etc...

A grip has benefit, objective benefit. Not everybody may care, that's true. But the benefits are still there.
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