Benefits of using K-1 with DA lens over K-3II?

Newtophotos · 06-04-2016, 05:18 PM

Are there any major benefits of using the K-1 with a DA lens (such as the 16-85mm) over using it with a K-3ii? My heavily used K-30 has died and I'm debating wether to replace it with the K-1 or K-3ii. The only three that come to mind are the more advanced/personalizable button/dial layout, K-1 being more future proof, and possibly better AF? Both have GPS, wifi (flucard on K-3ii), and pixel shift. The articulating screen doesn't seem that useful.

jimr-pdx · 06-04-2016, 05:26 PM

You also get to choose whether or not to crop to APSc size, an option that other brands often decide for you. I read here recently that the 20-40 is mostly a crop-free lens, which is pretty neat. Also you can crop later to a square or something else larger than APSc. That is a very nice bonus for crop-lens owners.

**mike.hiran** · 06-04-2016, 05:33 PM

Seems the shake reduction has improved, better dynamic range, better iso noise, the fact that some DA lenses (not the 16-85 though) have a larger usable image than aps-c, slightly larger grip, and a bigger viewfinder (if you shoot action, you'll see something enter the viewfinder before entering into the apsc square which can help you prepare for when you want to fire the trigger). Regarding the tilty screen, I suppose it depends on what kind of photography you do, but when taking a walk yesterday to test out a lens, I used the tilty screen a couple times. Not because I had to, but because I could. Low angle shots (catching a bicyclist going by a city landmark), over the head shots (there was a chain link fence I wanted to shoot over), and for critical focus (I was using a manual focus lens so live view was needed) and keeping the camera close to my body to keep it more still was made easier by flipping the screen up.

But.... less frames per second, larger and heavier, more expensive, and it may compel you to buy more/ different lenses.

A tough choice for sure - good luck!

Adam · 06-04-2016, 05:35 PM

Originally posted by Newtophotos

Are there any major benefits of using the K-1 with a DA lens (such as the 16-85mm) over using it with a K-3ii? My heavily used K-30 has died and I'm debating wether to replace it with the K-1 or K-3ii. The only three that come to mind are the more advanced/personalizable button/dial layout, K-1 being more future proof, and possibly better AF? Both have GPS, wifi (flucard on K-3ii), and pixel shift. The articulating screen doesn't seem that useful.

I wouldn't recommend getting the K-1 just to use it with crop lenses- especially walkaround lenses that don't cover much beyond the APS-C image circle.

If you were to get a K-1, you should swap that 16-85mm for the D FA 28-105mm. But if you plan to stick with your current lenses, then the K-3 or K-3 II would be the way to go.

@jimr-pdx I tested the 20-40mm on a Sony A7 a while ago and it was pretty far from covering the FF image circle, especially at close focusing distances. I plan to re-do the test soon on the K-1.

Adam
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**mike.hiran** · 06-04-2016, 05:40 PM

Originally posted by jimr-pdx

You also get to choose whether or not to crop to APSc size, an option that other brands often decide for you. I read here recently that the 20-40 is mostly a crop-free lens, which is pretty neat. Also you can crop later to a square or something else larger than APSc. That is a very nice bonus for crop-lens owners.

I tried out the 20-40 and it definitely vignettes, particularly at 20mm, even without the hood. But there's much more image to work with than an aps-c size which is a bonus.

fwbigd · 06-04-2016, 05:54 PM

If you use a crop sensor lens on the K-1 in the default mode you will end up with a 15 mega pixel file vs the 36 mega pixel when using a FF lens. If you set the mode manually to FF on the K-1 you will end up with quite bit of vignetting. By using the in camera crop tool you can crop the image to approximately 21 mega pixels without vignetting. By using the K-1 in the crop sensor mode you get approximately 2 additional frames per second in the high speed mode. Even in the crop mode the K-1 frame rate is 2.3 frames per second than the K-3 and K-3ii.

In my opinion if you shoot action with long lens go with the K-3 or K3ii. If you shoot landscape or head shots that do not need cropping go with the K-1 with FF lens. If you do a lot of cropping in post processing you will end up with a larger file you an K-3 or K3II because the pixels are smaller and more compact than the K-1. Still the K-1 will have a greater dynamic range than the two crop sensor cameras.

**jatrax** · 06-04-2016, 06:41 PM

Originally posted by Newtophotos

Are there any major benefits of using the K-1 with a DA lens (such as the 16-85mm) over using it with a K-3ii?

In short, no. And lots of disadvantages. The k-1 is a fantastic camera but buying it to use the da16-85 on it just doesn't make much sense. If you plan to go full frame and buy new FF lenses within a year then the 16-85 will work as a temporary solution. But if you intend to stay with the 16-85 then get the k-3II.

Sandy Hancock · 06-04-2016, 06:55 PM

I used my DA*16-50 in crop mode on my K-1 at an engagement party recently, and loved both the experience and the results. Having AF sensors all the way to the edges is great and the images stunned me.

An example:

I have plenty of full frame glass as well, but my crop lenses still have life left in them

For now I will stick with my DA*16-50 rather than shell out for the DFA24-70. My DA15, DA21 and DA35 limiteds are also safe.

**UncleVanya** · 06-04-2016, 09:25 PM

Originally posted by Sandy Hancock

I used my DA*16-50 in crop mode on my K-1 at an engagement party recently, and loved both the experience and the results. Having AF sensors all the way to the edges is great and the images stunned me.

An example:

I have plenty of full frame glass as well, but my crop lenses still have life left in them

For now I will stick with my DA*16-50 rather than shell out for the DFA24-70. My DA15, DA21 and DA35 limiteds are also safe.

What's the viewfinder experience like with a vignetting crop lens?

jimr-pdx · 06-04-2016, 09:53 PM

Originally posted by Adam

@jimr-pdx I tested the 20-40mm on a Sony A7 a while ago and it was pretty far from covering the FF image circle, especially at close focusing distances. I plan to re-do the test soon on the K-1.

Funny I cannot find the thread

but 'someone' claimed that it was a decent 22-40mm lens more or less. Maybe another forum - yea like I'd ever do that

biz-engineer · 06-04-2016, 10:51 PM

Originally posted by Newtophotos

Benefits of using K-1 with DA lens over K-3II?

The K1 is appealing, it is only slightly larger than a K3II, has all the feature of the K3II and more and a larger sensor. If you replace the K30 by a K3II now, you'll probably want to upgrade to a K1 in a year or two anyway, if so, you'll have spent the price of a K3II and the price of a K1. If you buy the K1 now, you'll have spend the price of the K1 only. So, feature wise, the K1 covers everything the K3II has, and financially speaking, you save money buying a K1 now instead of buying it later. Now, if you know that you'll never ever get a full frame camera, then the K3II is a cheaper option, but if you are no sure, better get the K1. Regarding the articulated screen of the K1, it does not seem to be particularly useful (that's also what I thought at the beginning), but now that I have it, I use it a lot, it's now possible to frame a shot from the top of the camera, as if it was a Hasselblad 500 film camera, really really nice.

JohnX · 06-05-2016, 12:42 AM

Same problem. Bought the K3ii last week.

For a while I've been concerned about the weight of my kit plus I am heavily invested in DA and DA* lenses.

My view is that to get the best from FF you must have the right lenses, which are also likely to be heavier, plus I'll be losing money to swap out my DA and DA* lenses for FF equivalents.

I'll wait and see where Pentax goes with FF, but in the meantime, for me, the extra weight and cost associated with the K1 = buy the K3II.

zapp · 06-05-2016, 12:51 AM

Originally posted by Newtophotos

Are there any major benefits of using the K-1 with a DA lens (such as the 16-85mm) over using it with a K-3ii? My heavily used K-30 has died and I'm debating wether to replace it with the K-1 or K-3ii. The only three that come to mind are the more advanced/personalizable button/dial layout, K-1 being more future proof, and possibly better AF? Both have GPS, wifi (flucard on K-3ii), and pixel shift. The articulating screen doesn't seem that useful.

Get the K3II - very good price, improvement over K30 and you can get good DA glass for less now and you have plenty of time to see that happens in FF land.
I am keeping my K3 for now starting to accumulate FF lenses before getting the FF camera. For long telephoto work I plan to keep APS-C camera so I might even upgrade to K3II or a follower. Shake reduction in K3II is better rated than in K3 or K30.

Sandy Hancock · 06-05-2016, 01:07 AM - **3 Likes**

Originally posted by UncleVanya

What's the viewfinder experience like with a vignetting crop lens?

Much better than I expected. In crop mode, a big wide black border drops into the viewfinder, and it is very easy to ignore everything outside.
In FF mode it looks a little weird, but if you want to milk every degree of angle of view out of your crop lenses you learn to put up with it.

**UncleVanya** · 06-05-2016, 05:36 AM

Originally posted by Sandy Hancock

Much better than I expected. In crop mode, a big wide black border drops into the viewfinder, and it is very easy to ignore everything outside.
In FF mode it looks a little weird, but if you want to milk every degree of angle of view out of your crop lenses you learn to put up with it.

Thanks that is very helpful to know.

06-04-2016, 05:18 PM	#1
Newtophotos Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 439	Benefits of using K-1 with DA lens over K-3II? Are there any major benefits of using the K-1 with a DA lens (such as the 16-85mm) over using it with a K-3ii? My heavily used K-30 has died and I'm debating wether to replace it with the K-1 or K-3ii. The only three that come to mind are the more advanced/personalizable button/dial layout, K-1 being more future proof, and possibly better AF? Both have GPS, wifi (flucard on K-3ii), and pixel shift. The articulating screen doesn't seem that useful.

06-04-2016, 10:51 PM	#11
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,239	Originally posted by Newtophotos Benefits of using K-1 with DA lens over K-3II? The K1 is appealing, it is only slightly larger than a K3II, has all the feature of the K3II and more and a larger sensor. If you replace the K30 by a K3II now, you'll probably want to upgrade to a K1 in a year or two anyway, if so, you'll have spent the price of a K3II and the price of a K1. If you buy the K1 now, you'll have spend the price of the K1 only. So, feature wise, the K1 covers everything the K3II has, and financially speaking, you save money buying a K1 now instead of buying it later. Now, if you know that you'll never ever get a full frame camera, then the K3II is a cheaper option, but if you are no sure, better get the K1. Regarding the articulated screen of the K1, it does not seem to be particularly useful (that's also what I thought at the beginning), but now that I have it, I use it a lot, it's now possible to frame a shot from the top of the camera, as if it was a Hasselblad 500 film camera, really really nice. Last edited by biz-engineer; 06-04-2016 at 11:05 PM.

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06-04-2016, 05:26 PM	#2
jimr-pdx Pentaxian Join Date: May 2010 Location: now 1 hour north of PDX Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,897	You also get to choose whether or not to crop to APSc size, an option that other brands often decide for you. I read here recently that the 20-40 is mostly a crop-free lens, which is pretty neat. Also you can crop later to a square or something else larger than APSc. That is a very nice bonus for crop-lens owners.

06-04-2016, 05:33 PM	#3
mike.hiran Site Supporter Join Date: May 2007 Location: portland Photos: Albums Posts: 1,491	Seems the shake reduction has improved, better dynamic range, better iso noise, the fact that some DA lenses (not the 16-85 though) have a larger usable image than aps-c, slightly larger grip, and a bigger viewfinder (if you shoot action, you'll see something enter the viewfinder before entering into the apsc square which can help you prepare for when you want to fire the trigger). Regarding the tilty screen, I suppose it depends on what kind of photography you do, but when taking a walk yesterday to test out a lens, I used the tilty screen a couple times. Not because I had to, but because I could. Low angle shots (catching a bicyclist going by a city landmark), over the head shots (there was a chain link fence I wanted to shoot over), and for critical focus (I was using a manual focus lens so live view was needed) and keeping the camera close to my body to keep it more still was made easier by flipping the screen up. But.... less frames per second, larger and heavier, more expensive, and it may compel you to buy more/ different lenses. A tough choice for sure - good luck!

06-04-2016, 05:35 PM	#4
Adam Administrator Site Webmaster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 51,597	Originally posted by Newtophotos Are there any major benefits of using the K-1 with a DA lens (such as the 16-85mm) over using it with a K-3ii? My heavily used K-30 has died and I'm debating wether to replace it with the K-1 or K-3ii. The only three that come to mind are the more advanced/personalizable button/dial layout, K-1 being more future proof, and possibly better AF? Both have GPS, wifi (flucard on K-3ii), and pixel shift. The articulating screen doesn't seem that useful. I wouldn't recommend getting the K-1 just to use it with crop lenses- especially walkaround lenses that don't cover much beyond the APS-C image circle. If you were to get a K-1, you should swap that 16-85mm for the D FA 28-105mm. But if you plan to stick with your current lenses, then the K-3 or K-3 II would be the way to go. @jimr-pdx I tested the 20-40mm on a Sony A7 a while ago and it was pretty far from covering the FF image circle, especially at close focusing distances. I plan to re-do the test soon on the K-1. Adam PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide \| Site Help \| My Photography) PentaxForums.com server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover these costs by donating or purchasing one of our Pentax eBooks. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, KEH, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

06-04-2016, 05:40 PM	#5
mike.hiran Site Supporter Join Date: May 2007 Location: portland Photos: Albums Posts: 1,491	Originally posted by jimr-pdx You also get to choose whether or not to crop to APSc size, an option that other brands often decide for you. I read here recently that the 20-40 is mostly a crop-free lens, which is pretty neat. Also you can crop later to a square or something else larger than APSc. That is a very nice bonus for crop-lens owners. I tried out the 20-40 and it definitely vignettes, particularly at 20mm, even without the hood. But there's much more image to work with than an aps-c size which is a bonus.

06-04-2016, 05:54 PM	#6
fwbigd Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Fort Worth TX Posts: 339	If you use a crop sensor lens on the K-1 in the default mode you will end up with a 15 mega pixel file vs the 36 mega pixel when using a FF lens. If you set the mode manually to FF on the K-1 you will end up with quite bit of vignetting. By using the in camera crop tool you can crop the image to approximately 21 mega pixels without vignetting. By using the K-1 in the crop sensor mode you get approximately 2 additional frames per second in the high speed mode. Even in the crop mode the K-1 frame rate is 2.3 frames per second than the K-3 and K-3ii. In my opinion if you shoot action with long lens go with the K-3 or K3ii. If you shoot landscape or head shots that do not need cropping go with the K-1 with FF lens. If you do a lot of cropping in post processing you will end up with a larger file you an K-3 or K3II because the pixels are smaller and more compact than the K-1. Still the K-1 will have a greater dynamic range than the two crop sensor cameras.

06-04-2016, 06:41 PM	#7
jatrax Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cascades Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,991	Originally posted by Newtophotos Are there any major benefits of using the K-1 with a DA lens (such as the 16-85mm) over using it with a K-3ii? In short, no. And lots of disadvantages. The k-1 is a fantastic camera but buying it to use the da16-85 on it just doesn't make much sense. If you plan to go full frame and buy new FF lenses within a year then the 16-85 will work as a temporary solution. But if you intend to stay with the 16-85 then get the k-3II.

06-04-2016, 06:55 PM	#8
Sandy Hancock Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Adelaide Hills, South Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,275	I used my DA16-50 in crop mode on my K-1 at an engagement party recently, and loved both the experience and the results. Having AF sensors all the way to the edges is great and the images stunned me. An example: I have plenty of full frame glass as well, but my crop lenses still have life left in them For now I will stick with my DA16-50 rather than shell out for the DFA24-70. My DA15, DA21 and DA35 limiteds are also safe.

06-04-2016, 09:25 PM	#9
UncleVanya Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,445	Originally posted by Sandy Hancock I used my DA16-50 in crop mode on my K-1 at an engagement party recently, and loved both the experience and the results. Having AF sensors all the way to the edges is great and the images stunned me. An example: I have plenty of full frame glass as well, but my crop lenses still have life left in them For now I will stick with my DA16-50 rather than shell out for the DFA24-70. My DA15, DA21 and DA35 limiteds are also safe. What's the viewfinder experience like with a vignetting crop lens?

06-04-2016, 09:53 PM	#10
jimr-pdx Pentaxian Join Date: May 2010 Location: now 1 hour north of PDX Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,897	Originally posted by Adam @jimr-pdx I tested the 20-40mm on a Sony A7 a while ago and it was pretty far from covering the FF image circle, especially at close focusing distances. I plan to re-do the test soon on the K-1. Funny I cannot find the thread but 'someone' claimed that it was a decent 22-40mm lens more or less. Maybe another forum - yea like I'd ever do that

06-05-2016, 12:42 AM	#12
JohnX Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: London Posts: 1,116	Same problem. Bought the K3ii last week. For a while I've been concerned about the weight of my kit plus I am heavily invested in DA and DA* lenses. My view is that to get the best from FF you must have the right lenses, which are also likely to be heavier, plus I'll be losing money to swap out my DA and DA* lenses for FF equivalents. I'll wait and see where Pentax goes with FF, but in the meantime, for me, the extra weight and cost associated with the K1 = buy the K3II.

06-05-2016, 12:51 AM	#13
zapp Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,388	Originally posted by Newtophotos Are there any major benefits of using the K-1 with a DA lens (such as the 16-85mm) over using it with a K-3ii? My heavily used K-30 has died and I'm debating wether to replace it with the K-1 or K-3ii. The only three that come to mind are the more advanced/personalizable button/dial layout, K-1 being more future proof, and possibly better AF? Both have GPS, wifi (flucard on K-3ii), and pixel shift. The articulating screen doesn't seem that useful. Get the K3II - very good price, improvement over K30 and you can get good DA glass for less now and you have plenty of time to see that happens in FF land. I am keeping my K3 for now starting to accumulate FF lenses before getting the FF camera. For long telephoto work I plan to keep APS-C camera so I might even upgrade to K3II or a follower. Shake reduction in K3II is better rated than in K3 or K30.

06-05-2016, 01:07 AM - 3 Likes	#14
Sandy Hancock Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Adelaide Hills, South Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,275	Originally posted by UncleVanya What's the viewfinder experience like with a vignetting crop lens? Much better than I expected. In crop mode, a big wide black border drops into the viewfinder, and it is very easy to ignore everything outside. In FF mode it looks a little weird, but if you want to milk every degree of angle of view out of your crop lenses you learn to put up with it.

06-05-2016, 05:36 AM	#15
UncleVanya Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,445	Originally posted by Sandy Hancock Much better than I expected. In crop mode, a big wide black border drops into the viewfinder, and it is very easy to ignore everything outside. In FF mode it looks a little weird, but if you want to milk every degree of angle of view out of your crop lenses you learn to put up with it. Thanks that is very helpful to know.