Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
06-08-2016, 03:19 PM   #46
Pentaxian
12345's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2014
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 487
QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
How do you figure the camera cannot stop-down meter in M Mode using K/M lenses (or a standard bellows)? AFAICT my K-10D, K-3 and K-1 (and probably K-01, but that camera uses the less capable Mid-range version of M buried under TAv) - my cameras do just that when I use the Green Button or DoF Preview Lever - in both Optical and LiveView, using Optical or Digital preview.
The point is that the OP wants to see the effect of his shutter speed change. i.e. if he changes the shutter speed from 1/20 to 1/100, the LiveView should become darker.

Here's a link that might explain a few things about how Canon and Nikon LiveView works: Canon vs Nikon Live View | Dragonframe

06-08-2016, 03:27 PM   #47
Loyal Site Supporter
monochrome's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kirkwood (St. Louis) MO
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 20,455
QuoteOriginally posted by 12345 Quote
The point is that the OP wants to see the effect of his shutter speed change. i.e. if he changes the shutter speed from 1/20 to 1/100, the LiveView should become darker.

Here's a link that might explain a few things about how Canon and Nikon LiveView works: Canon vs Nikon Live View | Dragonframe
I understand perfectly what the OP wants. Other than taking individual test shots I don't think K-1 will do what he wants in LV.

But it will definitely stop-down meter.
06-08-2016, 05:20 PM   #48
Veteran Member
sewebster's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 533
My Pentax camera (K200D) doesn't have this newfangled liveview feature, but I use Canons at work. When you adjust the shutter speed or apeture then the live view image brightens or darkens appropriately... this is how you decide which shutter speed to use...? So I'm a bit confused as to why the Pentax liveview system wouldn't work like that. If it dims/brightens when you set ev compensation it seems like it is doing a similar thing anyway... why not "do it properly"? Are there good reasons to not do it that way? At the very least it seems like it should be an option. Maybe I don't really appreciate how much of an approximation liveview is and perhaps they are trying to avoid people complaining about the final pictures not matching the preview...?
06-08-2016, 05:24 PM   #49
Site Supporter
stevebrot's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Vancouver (USA)
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 27,503
QuoteOriginally posted by 12345 Quote
The point is that the OP wants to see the effect of his shutter speed change.
I understand that part, though I don't really understand the practical aspect. The rear LCD, even with tuning does not give representative contrast or saturation. As with DOF, a best guess WYSIWYG in the rear screen is only an approximation. On the K-1, the equivalent it to use EC in Av mode.


Steve

06-08-2016, 05:45 PM   #50
Pentaxian
normhead's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Near Algonquin Park
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 25,877
I'm a little confused as to why you'd use live view instead of a the histogram. There are a kit if ties out doors, I can't even see the screen, but I can read the histogram.

But I can see how someone who thinks what they do is better would want to do it the way they know.

As an old Pentax user, I guess I'm just going to do things the way I always did.
06-08-2016, 05:45 PM   #51
Site Supporter
stevebrot's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Vancouver (USA)
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 27,503
QuoteOriginally posted by sewebster Quote
...Are there good reasons to not do it that way? At the very least it seems like it should be an option...
Funny you should ask. A dark display sucks when you are using it for manual focus. Normalizing display brightness gives liveview a huge advantage over the optical viewfinder for that purpose. As for having it as an option, that is how the Nikon implementation works in the D810 (yes, I finally found the documentation for the feature...) where you push the "ok" button to toggle the mode. How the feature works with non-CPU lenses seems to be beyond the scope of the manual.


Steve

Last edited by stevebrot; 06-08-2016 at 06:01 PM.
06-08-2016, 06:46 PM - 1 Like   #52
Pentaxian
Transit's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Whanganui NZ
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 4,077
QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
..... When the lens is manual and disconnect from aperture lever, the camera is of course not able to do stop down meteting ......
it's already stopped down using the ring.
The camera meters that and sets the shutter speed to adjust

This thread is doing my head in
06-08-2016, 09:35 PM   #53
Pentaxian




Join Date: Feb 2015
Photos: Albums
Posts: 3,551
QuoteOriginally posted by Transit Quote
it's already stopped down using the ring. The camera meters that and sets the shutter speed to adjust This thread is doing my head in
Yes, but I have no problem. You assume that the problem is mine, it's not. I'm just trying to find what the problem is with the OP by trying to reproduce his case. Funny that people always assume that they are smarter than others.

06-08-2016, 09:48 PM   #54
Pentaxian
Transit's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Whanganui NZ
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 4,077
No I wasn't and I don't....
06-08-2016, 11:07 PM   #55
Forum Member
MichaelErlewine's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Big Rapids, Michigan
Posts: 62
Original Poster
The reason to use LiveView is to be able to magnify the image to achieve more exact focus. Here is an example of a close-up shot taken with the Nikon D810 with the El Nikkor 105mm APO lens (on a bellows), and Zerene Stacker.

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/create?type=discussion&forum=1054

Also, many hundreds of photos (and many tutorials) under Free e-books here:

e-Books
06-08-2016, 11:23 PM   #56
Pentaxian




Join Date: Feb 2015
Photos: Albums
Posts: 3,551
QuoteOriginally posted by MichaelErlewine Quote
The reason to use LiveView is to be able to magnify the image to achieve more exact focus. Here is an example of a close-up shot taken with the Nikon D810 with the El Nikkor 105mm APO lens (on a bellows), and Zerene Stacker. http://www.dpreview.com/forums/create?type=discussion&forum=1054 Also, many hundreds of photos (and many tutorials) under Free e-books here: e-Books
Thank you so much. It turns out that we've took the time to look into your problem and were given answers to how Pentax DSLR (and K1) can do the same and we get a link to Nikon D810 photographs.
But it looks like it's not the right place to post links of photos taken with the D810. This has to be moved to dedicated thread or should be closed.
06-08-2016, 11:28 PM   #57
Forum Member
MichaelErlewine's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Big Rapids, Michigan
Posts: 62
Original Poster
I am new here, so I had better introduce myself a little. The Pentax K1 is new to me, but not photography. I am impressed with the zeal and the interest in the technical aspects of photography at this Pentax forum. Nice group and with real interest! I may just hang out here as I learn the K1.

I mostly hang at NikonGear.com, Luminous-Landscape.com, Fotozones.com, and other sites. Many questions have been asked in this thread and I probably don’t have time to answer them all in detail. I will try a couple.

The reason I use lenses that are fast (f/1.4, etc.) wide open and well corrected is that I mostly stack close-up images. I include one below that I put up on Dpreview.com just for this forum, since we can’t post images here directly from our hard drives (correct me if I am wrong). A lens that is fast wide-open can use the narrow DOF of a fast-wide-open lens to “paint” focus to build a block of the image in sharp focus, while leaving the rest of the photo to go to good bokeh. As for the “well-corrected” part, the secret IMO to real sharpness is not just acutance and resolution, but color correction, i.e. not having all that horrible fringing that muddies the color.

My reason for an interest in the Pentax K1 is the treatment of color purity by the avoidance of the muddy (by definition) color from Bayer interpolation achieved with the Pentax Pixel-Shift.

The reason to use LiveView is to be able to magnify the image to achieve more exact focus. Here is an example of a close-up shot taken with the Nikon D810 with the El Nikkor 105mm APO lens (on a bellows), and Zerene Stacker.

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/create?type=discussion&forum=1054

Also, many hundreds of photos (and many articles, books, video tutorials) under Free e-books here:

Read more at: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/6-pentax-dslr-discussion/323020-pentax-k1...#ixzz4B3mFgWrF

e-Books
06-08-2016, 11:36 PM   #58
Pentaxian
RAART's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Oakville, ON
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 936
QuoteOriginally posted by MichaelErlewine Quote
The reason to use LiveView is to be able to magnify the image to achieve more exact focus. Here is an example of a close-up shot taken with the Nikon D810 with the El Nikkor 105mm APO lens (on a bellows), and Zerene Stacker.

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/create?type=discussion&forum=1054

Also, many hundreds of photos (and many tutorials) under Free e-books here:

e-Books
are you using motorised bellows for this? If yes then since you get first time focus right than it is all ok for the rest of them but if not I can say you are very patient man who has plenty of time to stack those photos... How many photos do you usually stack to get all in focus?

IMHO I think that Pentax can do excellent job there as long as you get one of those motorised bellows, if you do not have it already and then you process will look like this:
- Camera in M mode
- enable Live View and get first and last picture as end point right in focus
- get back bellows to the first point, get out of the LV and press the green button to meter
- if you are using flash than set the correct value (recommend not using TTL for consistency) or continuous lights or LED Panels
- take a few shoots to get correct ratio whatever you wanted or use light meter to get it right right away
- determine how long it will take for pixelshft pictures to be taken and set accordingly speed for bellows
- Start you shooting process and relax. Lets camera and tech do their job

This you can use with any camera brand except that metering mode will differ from brand to brand.
06-08-2016, 11:59 PM - 1 Like   #59
Veteran Member
sewebster's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 533
QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Funny you should ask. A dark display sucks when you are using it for manual focus. Normalizing display brightness gives liveview a huge advantage over the optical viewfinder for that purpose. As for having it as an option, that is how the Nikon implementation works in the D810 (yes, I finally found the documentation for the feature...) where you push the "ok" button to toggle the mode. How the feature works with non-CPU lenses seems to be beyond the scope of the manual.
Agreed that a dark display is not good for focusing, but presumably the general idea is that you have the exposure set to something reasonable such that focussing is not a problem. I've never found it unnatural on Canon.

If I hadn't read this thread I definitely would have been surprised at how live view works on Pentax (when I finally get a modern body). Though now I am not entirely sure if we are talking about only use of "manual" lenses, or for everything.

Kinda crazy to contrast how it used to work with film... to modern day where I can complain that the camera won't tell me what my picture looks like before I even take it!
06-09-2016, 06:44 AM   #60
Forum Member
MichaelErlewine's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Big Rapids, Michigan
Posts: 62
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Thank you so much. It turns out that we've took the time to look into your problem and were given answers to how Pentax DSLR (and K1) can do the same and we get a link to Nikon D810 photographs.
But it looks like it's not the right place to post links of photos taken with the D810. This has to be moved to dedicated thread or should be closed.
The D810 photo was to communicate to someone who asked what I am trying to do with the K1. If I could do it, I would be showing you a K1 photo, but as we can see, the K1 does not favor lenses that are not linked electronically to it. The fact that I'm is because the K1 has some great features, but working with non-Pentax lenses with no electronic connection is not one of them. For example, here is my experience with the Sony A7rII, another very well-featured camera:

I took the Sony A7rII out of the box, placed it on one end of a Novoflex BALPRO bellows system and a El Nikkor 105mm APO enlarger lens on the other. Then I switched the camera on for the first time. Right there on the LCD was the image of a flower I wanted to photograph. I reached for the camera, grabbed it and moved the back rotary dial. The shutter speed moved up and down, causing the light in the image in the LCD to vary accordingly. Thatís about all I need and is what Iím talking about here and looking to find a way achieve with the K1.

I greatly appreciate the help Pentax users have provided here and have said so. I come in peace.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
aperture, apo, camera, dslr, equipment, exposure, focus, histogram, iso, k1, lens, lenses, light, mode, pentax, photography, pixel-shift, post, preview, shutter, stack, view
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
K1 pixel shift processing biz-engineer Pentax K-1 36 06-05-2016 11:06 PM
Pentax K1 Pixel-Shift: How fast an SD Card Do We Need? MichaelErlewine Pentax K-1 4 06-04-2016 12:39 AM
Does the K1 Allow Us to Turn Pixel-Shift ON and Remain On when Camera Restarts? MichaelErlewine Pentax K-1 4 06-01-2016 03:14 AM
K1 pixel shift question Franc Pentax K-1 21 05-29-2016 11:52 AM
K1 Pixel Shift tjstimbo Pentax K-1 6 05-06-2016 10:11 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:10 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top