Pentax! I have a dream...

Gutta Perka · 06-13-2016, 01:18 AM - **2 Likes**

...a pentaprism Pentax in the size and weight of the old MX or ME. (With that feeling...)

Stripped down - without all that things you seldom use - less knobs and exotic settings.

In a way just shutter-speed, opening, light meter and ISO-settings preferably to be able to set manually and that fit any of the Pentax lenses.

To easily carry around - without the feeling of a cheap point and shoot. 300-400 grams?

In a way like the old Leicas - quality and ease.!

You know - not all that planing for the gear that you can carry - huge backpacks or bags that make you think "that one is also good to take with".
Two lenses in the pocket and one attached - that is - perhaps some in the car or nearby.

When shall science reverse and build smaller again?
For me that would be a clean hit!

OK - I like my K-1.....and also have a "point and shoot thing"...that naturally is mostly used.
But ...You know....

**NZ_Ross** · 06-13-2016, 01:47 AM

This just seemed appropriate given 'you have a dream' - in fact the lyrics could almost be written for photographers.....

You Tube

Some very nice photography in this mix too

Ross

luli020759 · 06-13-2016, 02:18 AM

Originally posted by Gutta Perka

...a pentaprism Pentax in the size and weight of the old MX or ME. (With that feeling...)

Stripped down - without all that things you seldom use - less knobs and exotic settings.

In a way just shutter-speed, opening, light meter and ISO-settings preferably to be able to set manually and that fit any of the Pentax lenses.

To easily carry around - without the feeling of a cheap point and shoot. 300-400 grams?

In a way like the old Leicas - quality and ease.!

You know - not all that planing for the gear that you can carry - huge backpacks or bags that make you think "that one is also good to take with".
Two lenses in the pocket and one attached - that is - perhaps some in the car or nearby.

When shall science reverse and build smaller again?
For me that would be a clean hit!

OK - I like my K-1.....and also have a "point and shoot thing"...that naturally is mostly used.
But ...You know....

I love my K-1, but what you propose, man, I'll kill for it.

gkey · 06-13-2016, 02:34 AM

Originally posted by NZ_Ross

This just seemed appropriate given 'you have a dream' - in fact the lyrics could almost be written for photographers.....

Abba

Some very nice photography in this mix too

Ross

Indeed! Very emotional combination of music, pictures and lyrics...It made me cry...

max_pyne · 06-13-2016, 02:42 AM

I would take one.... ideally it would run of AA batteries but that's not a must....

**NZ_Ross** · 06-13-2016, 02:50 AM

Originally posted by gkey

Indeed! Very emotional combination of music, pictures and lyrics...It made me cry...

I am pleased you enjoyed it

Kunzite · 06-13-2016, 03:26 AM

How much would you pay for it? ~~Medium format~~ Leica prices?
Without some very exotic materials, I don't see how they could make it lighter than a ME without compromising the build quality. Perhaps even then.

And to keep the size down there would be compromises. Again, if it's even possible.

**Tony Belding** · 06-13-2016, 03:28 AM

Originally posted by Gutta Perka

...a pentaprism Pentax in the size and weight of the old MX or ME. (With that feeling...)

Pentax did make the K-S1, not that long ago, which is quite small. It does not seem to have been a big sales success. Also, it's not retro-styled. At all.

Quote:

Stripped down - without all that things you seldom use - less knobs and exotic settings.

In a way just shutter-speed, opening, light meter and ISO-settings preferably to be able to set manually and that fit any of the Pentax lenses.

To easily carry around - without the feeling of a cheap point and shoot. 300-400 grams?

In a way like the old Leicas - quality and ease.!

You know - not all that planing for the gear that you can carry - huge backpacks or bags that make you think "that one is also good to take with".
Two lenses in the pocket and one attached - that is - perhaps some in the car or nearby.

When shall science reverse and build smaller again?
For me that would be a clean hit!

Pentax is not going to build this. It's not their style, not their strategy. If you've looked at what Pentax have produced for quite a few years now, it should be readily apparent that "retro" is not their thing. Modern styling is their thing, and they are very dedicated to the control scheme of the by-now-traditional modern DSLR, and they aren't going to change it. (They're only going to make it more and more complicated, because complexity is part of the modern DSLR formula. Which is why my new K-S2 has a AUTO/SCN/A-HDR/U1/U2/B/M/TAv/Av/Sv/P dial where the shutter speed dial ought to be!)

And if you don't like it that way, the easy solution is to go out and buy a Fujifilm X-T1 already.

pathdoc · 06-13-2016, 03:53 AM

I have the same dream, OP, and I talked about it with a couple of people one day. What's really necessary? The sensor, a processor behind it to push raw files to a micro SD card, and power to drive both. If you're fitting everything inside a mechanical camera body, you don't need power for the shutter or the aperture so your battery can probably be smaller, though I don't think you could get by on LR44's. You need some sort of pickoff to sense when the shutter is moving or the flash is firing to synchronise the sensor, and another to transmit the ASA setting.

I think it's doable. I think a couple of engineers with Ricoh laboratory resources could jury-rig it. I'm not sure you could fit it inside an ME or MX; you would probably have to settle for a Spotmatic or K-series body in the first instance. But I think it could be done. The hassle would be getting Ricoh to actually do it.

In the end, what it comes down to is someone finally getting the technology, the money and the will all together in the same place to develop a full-frame drop-in cartridge that replaces a film canister. Then you could use any camera you liked. I'm sure that's doable as well. The last try almost made it; the next one ought to succeed. A professional company with full resources, as opposed to a backyard entrepreneur, could pull it off. So long as you kept the pixels down below 10MP or so and the ISO between, say, 200 and 1600 so that it wouldn't compete fully against modern DSLRs, I think the camera companies probably wouldn't raise too many objections. The film companies might be another story, but there is a hard core of film-camera users that would shoot film in their cameras even if such a device existed. They might recoup some of their losses offering special deals for "digifilm" prints to capture themselves a market slice.

robthebloke · 06-13-2016, 04:24 AM

I'd prefer a minimal pentax D67. No AF, just a HD67 105mm f2.4, and 3 dials for: iso, aperture, and shutter speed. I'd even be fine with a 24mp full sized 67 sensor, just as long as it's full sized 67.

**Tony Belding** · 06-13-2016, 06:24 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by pathdoc

I think it's doable. I think a couple of engineers with Ricoh laboratory resources could jury-rig it. I'm not sure you could fit it inside an ME or MX; you would probably have to settle for a Spotmatic or K-series body in the first instance. But I think it could be done. The hassle would be getting Ricoh to actually do it.

Or else. . . You could just go ahead and buy a Fuji X-T1 already. You can switch off the back LCD, switch to manual focus, and take all the dials out of the A-for-Auto position, and you are there. Oh, and pick up a K-to-X lens adapter too, why not? (Although the native Fujinon prime lenses are superb!)

Oh yeah, I must admit it doesn't have a big, beautiful OVF with a split-prism focusing screen. Instead it has a big, beautiful EVF with your choice of magnification, focus peaking, split image, and simulated split-prism focusing aids.

There's a company already going out of their way to cater to your retro impulses. Don't shun them just because they aren't Pentax.

Pentax have chosen their own path and their own style, and it's all about modernity. The K-S2, K-1 and K-70 are the clearest expressions yet of Pentax's vision, and that vision is nothing like what you're asking for. It's just not in them.

RonHendriks1966 · 06-13-2016, 06:27 AM

Originally posted by Gutta Perka

To easily carry around - without the feeling of a cheap point and shoot. 300-400 grams?

This is a big challenge. Ditch all things that add weight. So no SR. Carbon fiber body. No back screen, but only a big EVF. Small battery (but without screen , flash and SR you still can make a lot of pics).

pathdoc · 06-13-2016, 06:33 AM

Originally posted by Tony Belding

You could just go ahead and buy a Fuji X-T1 already.

That's not what I'm looking for, regardless of who makes it.

Hey, at the end of the day I can live with what Pentax is actually giving us. I love the K-5. I loved my *istDL until it dropped dead. I will love the K-1 when I eventually get it. But there's something about the handling of the Pentax film cameras that just cannot be duplicated by a mirrorless box (hint - it's the mirror and the shutter) or even the current run of digital bodies, and for the time being I am content to go back to film in order to enjoy that feeling. In the meantime, I can hope, dream, and give my thoughts on how the thing I want might be accomplished. Until it is, I will happily go on shooting and developing film.

GlennG · 06-13-2016, 07:16 AM

Originally posted by Gutta Perka

Pentax! I have a dream...

I certainly agree with the dream as you describe, and I think I'd like one. I'm thinking that I can pretty much get this by taking a new K-70, adding the limiteds 20-40, 15, and 70, and then ignoring all the other features I seldom if ever use. Only things missing are size.......and weight......and simplicity. OK, so maybe I can't pretty much get the dream. But I think that would be a pretty good kit and if that were your only kit, you could walk around easily with it, fire off shots quickly, have great IQ, and not have to be fumbling around about what to take for a trip.

**THoog** · 06-13-2016, 07:48 AM - **1 Like**

I don't understand why it always has to be PENTAX that will design and build these dream cameras, whether they be minimalist DSLRs or hybrid MILCs or K-mount video cameras. Pentax barely has enough production capacity for their own designs, which need as broad an appeal as possible to be profitable in a shrinking segment of a shrinking market. Why do they have to be the ones to invest time and resources in a niche-within-the-niche product? People (outside the industry) have been insisting that a minimalist FF DSLR in film-sized body would be easy to make and wildly popular for years now - and yet, no one has done it. Fine - it would be easy and hugely profitable. So do it! Get a Kickstarter going, work with a Cosina or an Asia Optical, and make that dream camera! There used to be numerous K-mount or M42 mount camera makers - what could be more retro than bringing that back?

06-13-2016, 01:18 AM - 2 Likes	#1
Gutta Perka Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 126	Pentax! I have a dream... ...a pentaprism Pentax in the size and weight of the old MX or ME. (With that feeling...) Stripped down - without all that things you seldom use - less knobs and exotic settings. In a way just shutter-speed, opening, light meter and ISO-settings preferably to be able to set manually and that fit any of the Pentax lenses. To easily carry around - without the feeling of a cheap point and shoot. 300-400 grams? In a way like the old Leicas - quality and ease.! You know - not all that planing for the gear that you can carry - huge backpacks or bags that make you think "that one is also good to take with". Two lenses in the pocket and one attached - that is - perhaps some in the car or nearby. When shall science reverse and build smaller again? For me that would be a clean hit! OK - I like my K-1.....and also have a "point and shoot thing"...that naturally is mostly used. But ...You know....

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06-13-2016, 02:18 AM	#3
luli020759 New Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Madrid Posts: 8	Originally posted by Gutta Perka ...a pentaprism Pentax in the size and weight of the old MX or ME. (With that feeling...) Stripped down - without all that things you seldom use - less knobs and exotic settings. In a way just shutter-speed, opening, light meter and ISO-settings preferably to be able to set manually and that fit any of the Pentax lenses. To easily carry around - without the feeling of a cheap point and shoot. 300-400 grams? In a way like the old Leicas - quality and ease.! You know - not all that planing for the gear that you can carry - huge backpacks or bags that make you think "that one is also good to take with". Two lenses in the pocket and one attached - that is - perhaps some in the car or nearby. When shall science reverse and build smaller again? For me that would be a clean hit! OK - I like my K-1.....and also have a "point and shoot thing"...that naturally is mostly used. But ...You know.... I love my K-1, but what you propose, man, I'll kill for it.

06-13-2016, 02:34 AM	#4
gkey Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Athens Posts: 110	Originally posted by NZ_Ross This just seemed appropriate given 'you have a dream' - in fact the lyrics could almost be written for photographers..... Abba Some very nice photography in this mix too Ross Indeed! Very emotional combination of music, pictures and lyrics...It made me cry...

06-13-2016, 02:42 AM	#5
max_pyne Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: zurich Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 409	I would take one.... ideally it would run of AA batteries but that's not a must....

06-13-2016, 02:50 AM	#6
NZ_Ross Kiwi Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Timaru Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,225	Originally posted by gkey Indeed! Very emotional combination of music, pictures and lyrics...It made me cry... I am pleased you enjoyed it

06-13-2016, 03:26 AM	#7
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	How much would you pay for it? ~~Medium format~~ Leica prices? Without some very exotic materials, I don't see how they could make it lighter than a ME without compromising the build quality. Perhaps even then. And to keep the size down there would be compromises. Again, if it's even possible.

06-13-2016, 03:28 AM	#8
Tony Belding Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Hamilton, Texas Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 787	Originally posted by Gutta Perka ...a pentaprism Pentax in the size and weight of the old MX or ME. (With that feeling...) Pentax did make the K-S1, not that long ago, which is quite small. It does not seem to have been a big sales success. Also, it's not retro-styled. At all. Quote: Stripped down - without all that things you seldom use - less knobs and exotic settings. In a way just shutter-speed, opening, light meter and ISO-settings preferably to be able to set manually and that fit any of the Pentax lenses. To easily carry around - without the feeling of a cheap point and shoot. 300-400 grams? In a way like the old Leicas - quality and ease.! You know - not all that planing for the gear that you can carry - huge backpacks or bags that make you think "that one is also good to take with". Two lenses in the pocket and one attached - that is - perhaps some in the car or nearby. When shall science reverse and build smaller again? For me that would be a clean hit! Pentax is not going to build this. It's not their style, not their strategy. If you've looked at what Pentax have produced for quite a few years now, it should be readily apparent that "retro" is not their thing. Modern styling is their thing, and they are very dedicated to the control scheme of the by-now-traditional modern DSLR, and they aren't going to change it. (They're only going to make it more and more complicated, because complexity is part of the modern DSLR formula. Which is why my new K-S2 has a AUTO/SCN/A-HDR/U1/U2/B/M/TAv/Av/Sv/P dial where the shutter speed dial ought to be!) And if you don't like it that way, the easy solution is to go out and buy a Fujifilm X-T1 already.

06-13-2016, 03:53 AM	#9
pathdoc Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2015 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,381	I have the same dream, OP, and I talked about it with a couple of people one day. What's really necessary? The sensor, a processor behind it to push raw files to a micro SD card, and power to drive both. If you're fitting everything inside a mechanical camera body, you don't need power for the shutter or the aperture so your battery can probably be smaller, though I don't think you could get by on LR44's. You need some sort of pickoff to sense when the shutter is moving or the flash is firing to synchronise the sensor, and another to transmit the ASA setting. I think it's doable. I think a couple of engineers with Ricoh laboratory resources could jury-rig it. I'm not sure you could fit it inside an ME or MX; you would probably have to settle for a Spotmatic or K-series body in the first instance. But I think it could be done. The hassle would be getting Ricoh to actually do it. In the end, what it comes down to is someone finally getting the technology, the money and the will all together in the same place to develop a full-frame drop-in cartridge that replaces a film canister. Then you could use any camera you liked. I'm sure that's doable as well. The last try almost made it; the next one ought to succeed. A professional company with full resources, as opposed to a backyard entrepreneur, could pull it off. So long as you kept the pixels down below 10MP or so and the ISO between, say, 200 and 1600 so that it wouldn't compete fully against modern DSLRs, I think the camera companies probably wouldn't raise too many objections. The film companies might be another story, but there is a hard core of film-camera users that would shoot film in their cameras even if such a device existed. They might recoup some of their losses offering special deals for "digifilm" prints to capture themselves a market slice.

06-13-2016, 04:24 AM	#10
robthebloke Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Sydney Photos: Albums Posts: 844	I'd prefer a minimal pentax D67. No AF, just a HD67 105mm f2.4, and 3 dials for: iso, aperture, and shutter speed. I'd even be fine with a 24mp full sized 67 sensor, just as long as it's full sized 67.

06-13-2016, 06:24 AM - 1 Like	#11
Tony Belding Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Hamilton, Texas Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 787	Originally posted by pathdoc I think it's doable. I think a couple of engineers with Ricoh laboratory resources could jury-rig it. I'm not sure you could fit it inside an ME or MX; you would probably have to settle for a Spotmatic or K-series body in the first instance. But I think it could be done. The hassle would be getting Ricoh to actually do it. Or else. . . You could just go ahead and buy a Fuji X-T1 already. You can switch off the back LCD, switch to manual focus, and take all the dials out of the A-for-Auto position, and you are there. Oh, and pick up a K-to-X lens adapter too, why not? (Although the native Fujinon prime lenses are superb!) Oh yeah, I must admit it doesn't have a big, beautiful OVF with a split-prism focusing screen. Instead it has a big, beautiful EVF with your choice of magnification, focus peaking, split image, and simulated split-prism focusing aids. There's a company already going out of their way to cater to your retro impulses. Don't shun them just because they aren't Pentax. Pentax have chosen their own path and their own style, and it's all about modernity. The K-S2, K-1 and K-70 are the clearest expressions yet of Pentax's vision, and that vision is nothing like what you're asking for. It's just not in them.

06-13-2016, 06:27 AM	#12
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	Originally posted by Gutta Perka To easily carry around - without the feeling of a cheap point and shoot. 300-400 grams? This is a big challenge. Ditch all things that add weight. So no SR. Carbon fiber body. No back screen, but only a big EVF. Small battery (but without screen , flash and SR you still can make a lot of pics).

06-13-2016, 06:33 AM	#13
pathdoc Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2015 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,381	Originally posted by Tony Belding You could just go ahead and buy a Fuji X-T1 already. That's not what I'm looking for, regardless of who makes it. Hey, at the end of the day I can live with what Pentax is actually giving us. I love the K-5. I loved my *istDL until it dropped dead. I will love the K-1 when I eventually get it. But there's something about the handling of the Pentax film cameras that just cannot be duplicated by a mirrorless box (hint - it's the mirror and the shutter) or even the current run of digital bodies, and for the time being I am content to go back to film in order to enjoy that feeling. In the meantime, I can hope, dream, and give my thoughts on how the thing I want might be accomplished. Until it is, I will happily go on shooting and developing film.

06-13-2016, 07:16 AM	#14
GlennG Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 824	Originally posted by Gutta Perka Pentax! I have a dream... I certainly agree with the dream as you describe, and I think I'd like one. I'm thinking that I can pretty much get this by taking a new K-70, adding the limiteds 20-40, 15, and 70, and then ignoring all the other features I seldom if ever use. Only things missing are size.......and weight......and simplicity. OK, so maybe I can't pretty much get the dream. But I think that would be a pretty good kit and if that were your only kit, you could walk around easily with it, fire off shots quickly, have great IQ, and not have to be fumbling around about what to take for a trip.

06-13-2016, 07:48 AM - 1 Like	#15
THoog Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: North Carolina Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,685	I don't understand why it always has to be PENTAX that will design and build these dream cameras, whether they be minimalist DSLRs or hybrid MILCs or K-mount video cameras. Pentax barely has enough production capacity for their own designs, which need as broad an appeal as possible to be profitable in a shrinking segment of a shrinking market. Why do they have to be the ones to invest time and resources in a niche-within-the-niche product? People (outside the industry) have been insisting that a minimalist FF DSLR in film-sized body would be easy to make and wildly popular for years now - and yet, no one has done it. Fine - it would be easy and hugely profitable. So do it! Get a Kickstarter going, work with a Cosina or an Asia Optical, and make that dream camera! There used to be numerous K-mount or M42 mount camera makers - what could be more retro than bringing that back?