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07-01-2016, 08:55 AM   #16
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You okay with manual focus only? If so, the Samyang 16mm f2.0 prime might be right up your street. Here's the user reviews; Samyang 16mm F2 ED AS UMC CS Lens Reviews - Samyang Lenses - Pentax Lens Review Database

Another lens that might be of interest is the Sigma 15mm Diagonal Fisheye, as reviewed here; Sigma 15mm F2.8 EX DG Diagonal Fisheye Lens Reviews - Sigma Lenses - Pentax Lens Review Database

Note: I have never owned either of these, I just spend a lot of time reading reviews for lenses I don't know... in any case, they're both pretty fast glass, well recieved by owners, and quite wide. Personally I don't like a heavy fisheye effect, but that diagonal fish Sigma seems pretty easy to deal with, and you've got Lightroom to help de-fish if you want to.

07-01-2016, 09:23 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by drugoz Quote
phat_bog is right, my problem maybe isn't iso but also dynamic range.
ote]

QuoteOriginally posted by drugoz Quote
the k01's sensor is old, so I thought that maybe a newer one can react better on adverse scenes as are mines.
The sensor technology is basically unchanged from the K-5, K-01 era. I'm hoping for better from the K-70 but that's yet to be determined. The K-01 sensor for dynamic range is better than the K-3 sensor, but not very much. It sounds like a lot of messing around with a graduated neutral density filter might be your best option, if you have large differences in intensity values from one side of the room to the other. I'd get out there and just play around with exposure until I get the hump on the histogram moved over into the middle of the curve. Right now, without going to a K-01 or D810, I'm not really clear what you options would be.

The problem is going to be, using a fast lens is the narrow DoF it creates if it's a 3D space.,so my guess is you're going to need to stop down.

You're describing a really tough technical problem. I'd love to just get out in the display space with a camera bag and trouble shoot it but, clearly that's pretty much impossible.

The only possible solution might be something like the Sony A7s with an adapter for your 1.2 lens, but that's going to be expensive.
07-02-2016, 02:19 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenspo Quote
K3II is 1-2 stop better then KS-2..K-1 is 2-3 stop better then K-3II again.
I would be more conservative for the settings. I don't think that all things combined K-1 is 3-5 stop better than K01. This would mean after all that an iso 800 shoot from K01 look like a 6400-25600 shoot from K1. Look a bit optimistic.

But I agree that overall K1 is the way to go if shallow dof is not an issue. Even if not, the K1 is quite modern sensor and electronics and still improve.
07-02-2016, 08:16 AM   #19
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Looking at your pictures on your web page, they all look pretty good. Like these ones for example:

Exhibition Views - massimilianomoro

In what areas do you find them deficient? Do you have examples of photos that have shortcomings you would like to remedy?

Lee

07-02-2016, 08:34 AM   #20
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I can't add much to this conversation...but I do not find the weight or size of the K1 to be in any way limiting....barely have noticed it at all.

I will say the high ISO abilities are excellent, but more important to the OPs needs....I have found that the K1 retains color accuracy at very high ISO values far better than any Pentax before it.....very good in this respect.

For example...the color remained accurate and true to life on this Woody even at ISO 6400.


If you do photos or artwork, that has to be important. Previously, I had lots of problems with colors at high ISO values...but not so with the K1.

Regards!
07-02-2016, 09:29 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by leekil Quote
Looking at your pictures on your web page, they all look pretty good. Like these ones for example:

Exhibition Views - massimilianomoro

In what areas do you find them deficient? Do you have examples of photos that have shortcomings you would like to remedy?

Lee


those are the only pictures that aren't mine!!... they are taken with a canon 7d. I tried playing with that camera while the photographer was there and the feeling was that the noise managing was way better than the k-01...hence this post!


maybe I made a little bit of confusion with the noise situation. the pictures are ok, the only thing is that to achieve them I have to struggle.

for example this one is 1/30 fa (da15) and 1600 iso. I had to take a lot of them to have a decent one because of the slow shutter and slightly moving subject. If I could have gone with iso 3200 or even better 6400 without loosing to much details it would have been much better for me.

the noise until 1600 is good, I only wish I could go further without compromising the colours. k-01 at 3200 is terrible in colour noise, and my pictures contains lot of colours and I can't use it.


so the main question is like this now: which camera could have taken that picture at 6400 iso?


thanks!
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07-02-2016, 10:36 AM   #22
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I would say if you were using a faster lens you could get away with faster shutter speed and keep the iso at 1600.

For example the Samyang 14mm an MF lens it quite unexpensive, f/2.8 and so you would be able to shoot at 1/60 instead of 1/30. By setting the focussing distance carefully, you would be able to have everything from 1.5m to 7.5m in focus if you focus at a subject 2.5meter distance. If you can figure in advance the typical subject distance you don't even need to have AF with a wide angle.

You could take even faster lens like Samyang 16mm f/2 so getting away with 1600 iso 1/120s but the deph of field would start to be quite small. You would have everything in focus from 1.5m to 3m only if focussing at 2meter distance.

The alternative to me is to buy a recent FF with good high iso performance like the K1. The dof at f/4 on FF would be like f/2.8 on APSC but the better management of high iso setting would give you the same quality you have today 1600 f/4 15mm with a 24mm f/4 at 6400 isos and 1/120s. The dof would be like you have on APSC at f/2.8. So you could have everything in focus from 1.5m to 7.5m focussing at 2.5m.

IN ALL CASES: You should shoot RAW and you should spend time to find the right post processing setting that play well with your requirements. The colors you have are quite aggressive, this doesn't look to be about subtle details so it should be possible to go quite far with advanced noise removal technique. I would not be surprised you could managed at least 3200 with the K01 with proper profile in lightroom or DxO.

For example, this is K3 at 6400 isos with same DA15 f/4 (the border are intentionnally blurred):



And this is iso 2500:



DxO prime worked very well for me, in particular with theses punchy colors. Suble skin detail on a portrait would have been a different affair.

Last edited by Nicolas06; 07-02-2016 at 10:42 AM.
07-06-2016, 08:54 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by drugoz Quote
those are the only pictures that aren't mine!!... they are taken with a canon 7d. I tried playing with that camera while the photographer was there and the feeling was that the noise managing was way better than the k-01...hence this post.
If you take a close look at those 7D pictures, they are actually pretty noisy! This makes sense really, Canon sensors have fallen behind their Sony equivalents when it comes to high ISO performance. It helps that the Sony sensor used in the K-01 (and K-5) was considered to have good noise handling at higher ISOs.

So, what is it about those pictures that makes them good? Well, for a start the photographer removed the nastier, but easier to remove colour noise. Software these days easily handles colour noise, and you really need to ratchet it up for it to start having a real effect on the scene colours. The luminance noise in those photos shows that noise was high, so colour noise had to have been removed in post. Luminance noise is hard to remove without softening/smudging the picture, especially when there is lots of it. Good post processing will dramatically improve photos taken at 1600, 3200, even 6400 ISO without ruining the colours of the scene itself. Of course, those higher ISOs do have an impact, so only go up if you have to, but a bit of work will result in usable web-sized pictures. If you like pixel peeping, higher ISOs will never produce good enough pictures, no matter the body.

The other thing is that the photographer has used the scene to distract from the IQ impact the noise has. They are not cataloging an artwork, they are recording the visit of a group of people who are viewing the artwork. By capturing people naturally responding to the art and ensuring the art is at an oblique angle your eye naturally surveys the scene of the picture, rather then honing in on details of the art - very effective. If you take the scene out, by zooming in on the art away from the people, suddenly the flaws stand out. Try this with the 8th picture, expand it and concentrate on the top-centre of the image, and suddenly the IQ degradation on the silhouette of the leaves by the noise becomes really obvious.

I think your K-01 can deliver results as good as a 7D (presuming this is a mkii, the 2009 original would be left in the dust), you need to focus on maximising you post processing and the composition of the photo. A brand new body will give you an improvement, but not enough to remove the issues. Noise will be a little less, but it still needs to be dealt with.

07-19-2016, 08:30 AM   #24
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thanks everybody for your advices. I found a sigma 30 1.4 art for a decent price and I'm really enjoying the faster aperture. I can now shoot some of the pictures at ISO 400 and that's a real improvement in noise handling. the lens is quite bigger than all my primes obviously but I think I can make fit in my travel bag along the limiteds. if only it was 24mm instead of 30 I'd say I found a lens that could never come off the camera!

post processing will always be an issue as my sculptures are full of microcontrast between the shadow's colors, so I have to find a balance to keep enough micro details and less noise. when you illuminate with different colors than whites the camera struggle in capturing volumes. You can hide it with people like gospetsmonkey says, but most of the time I need a clean shot of the sculpture only.

anyway this conversation was very helpful!
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07-19-2016, 09:52 AM   #25
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Modern lighting is a problem, if it's LED based. The colors are very narrow and tend to blow highlights in those color bands. Welcome to the modern age.

My Sigma 28mm is very usable at f1.8, I'm not at all surprised your 30mm is also useful wide open. Nice purchase.
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