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02-13-2007, 12:50 PM   #16
Ed in GA
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QuoteOriginally posted by trog100 Quote
back to the "master" thing NaCH20..

he has 10,000 shutter releases on his camera.. on his E20 he esimates 100,000 shutter releases since he has had it..


the ability to takes lots of pictures and in so doing learn how to take the odd good one.. without digital none of it would be possible..

trog
Now, the question that this is all begging to be asked is......

Has digital photography made us lazy?

Is it now just easier to take a bunch of bracketed shots from a bunch of different angles for the express purpose of getting that "One" really great photo?

Has it taken the thinking part away from the art?


Uh, Oh, I can feel those flames a coming

02-13-2007, 01:24 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by EddyinGA Quote
Now, the question that this is all begging to be asked is......

Has digital photography made us lazy?

Is it now just easier to take a bunch of bracketed shots from a bunch of different angles for the express purpose of getting that "One" really great photo?

Has it taken the thinking part away from the art?


Uh, Oh, I can feel those flames a coming
For me it is just the opposite. I know that there is a lot I can do in Photoshop, but I also know that the old "garbage in, garbage out" saying still applies. While shooting I sometimes even pre-think what I will do with this shot in Photoshop, but that makes me think even more because I know what I will have to do in camera to make the end result work the way I want. Actually it is very much like the way I shot film - I knew what I could do in the darkroom so I knew what I would have to do in camera to get the desired result.

I was thinking at the beginning of this thread that while digital has made photographer less expensive it has made it far more time consuming. With film I would spend all of my time taking the photos and let the lab do the rest. With digital I spend about 4 hours of computer time for ever hour of photography time. That means that digital is only "cheaper" if I don't value my time.
02-13-2007, 02:22 PM   #18
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i think my youngest offspring is a pretty good photographer.. he shoots jpegs and spend no time post proccessing.. he says the time is better spend taking pictures..

my computer is used as something to view my jpeg images on not as part of the photographic proccess..

so to me digital is all gain no loss..

trog
02-13-2007, 02:29 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by trog100 Quote
i think my youngest offspring is a pretty good photographer.. he shoots jpegs and spend no time post proccessing.. he says the time is better spend taking pictures..

my computer is used as something to view my jpeg images on not as part of the photographic proccess..

so to me digital is all gain no loss..

trog
Cool. (789)

02-13-2007, 02:33 PM   #20
Ed in GA
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QuoteOriginally posted by trog100 Quote
i think my youngest offspring is a pretty good photographer.. he shoots jpegs and spend no time post proccessing.. he says the time is better spend taking pictures..

trog
I shoot 99% JPEG and about the only post processing I do is some cropping or some quick fixes.

I agree with your son, the time is better spent taking pictures.
02-13-2007, 02:35 PM   #21
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This is actually the argument I made to convince myself, and my wife, to get my first digital SLR in December..

The price of the film mailers went up that I had used ( I bulk loaded slide film ) - the film went up, and I had to scan them anyhow, or pay to have them scanned (because my scanner crapped out on me..)

So.. it was "pay more for film, pay more for developing, and pay $200, or more, for a decent slide scanner" or "pay $420 for the K110D and a few bucks more for SD cards, and I'm good to go"

Basically, I did an excel sheet to figure out the cost savings... of course factor in a computer, that changes things, but I already had that...

After 1100 pictures it's mostly paid for itself. And I feel it's made me a better photographer, being able to get that instant feedback, as opposed to waiting 2 weeks (or 2 months, depending on when I sent them) for slides to get back...

-Dan
02-13-2007, 03:27 PM   #22
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No more storage tanks?

QuoteOriginally posted by Darren M Quote
I could be wrong on the numbers, but I believe the last time I bought a roll of Provia, I paid 160nt for 37 exposures. This works out to 4.32nt/frame. With PEFs from my K10D, I get about 170 (this is a guess, the camera really only counts down DNGs properly) shots. This works out to 2.94/frame, a much lower price. Even shooting the bloated sized DNGs, it is 4.05 per frame, a slight savings. My beloved Tri-X is 85nt/roll, which comes out to 2.30/frame, a slight savings. Of course though, at 4.37nt for Provia, or 2.30nt for Tri-X, I still have to buy chems or pay for processing. B&W developing at home is cheap enough, but not free. Having slides processed was/is expensive for me, it has been a few years though and I don't remember exactly how expensive.

It is quite a head shaker to me that even used disposably, memory card prices give us so much for so little. I can remember when I bought my *istD, this was not the case. I bought the cheapest 512mb card I could and it still cost me 4000nt. Now he cards are four times as big and 1/8th the price. Crazy.

Anyways, this little math on my part isn't meant to stop people from shooting film; it certainly won't stop me. It is just an interesting milestone that we have passed IMO.
Hey I dodnt notice that one go by. I noticed when I got my *istD that finally a set of disposable batteries lasted as long as they did on a film camera, but it took me a lot longer on a film camera to get through 1800 frames (50 rolls). Mainly because it cost the best part of 10 per roll for decent developing and printing.

Crazy to think memory is so cheap its almost disposable, but I guess that gets rid of your travel storage problems. Its not out of the question to own 10-20 2GB cards at that price and if you run out just buy more.

The reall offset cost is the new 250GB external hard drive I need to buy every 6 months to hold all the new shots
02-13-2007, 03:37 PM   #23
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instant feedback is worth its weight in gold.. i took some nice moonshots last week..

shoot six pics.. card into computer look at results.. card back in camera shoot six more.. repeat process two more times and get at least as good a moonshot as the equipment allowed..

the result.. only possible thru instant feedback.. and multiple attempts..



trog

02-13-2007, 03:57 PM   #24
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I replied to this same thread on dpr as well - I did the math a while back - on 10,000 frames in film with some quick amounts found on some web sites, it would run somewhere around $2000 for film and developing for Kodak 400 print film and Snapfish mail-in processing. Thats a lot of money


On some of the other topics in this thread - I've tried to do everything right so I don't need to post-processs - I hate spending tons of time tweaking. If I didn't get it right the first time, and a few minor tweaks don't help (levels, USM, etc) - then I'm done... I shoot 99.99999% in Jpeg..
02-13-2007, 04:23 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by trog100 Quote
going back the the cheap removable storage thing.. what amazes me as well as the price is the size factor.. we can now get the equivalent data on a thing the size of a postage stamp which not that long ago would have taken a pile of floppy disks six feet high..
Yes, that is also quite amazing.

QuoteQuote:
or to put it another way it would it would take a pile of floppy disks 1.5 miles high to contain the same data as i can store on my computer hardrives..

or a pile of one gig sd cards 5 feet high to store the same data as my PC..

the cost of the sd cards would be 10,000 dollars at ten dollars per 1 gig card..

the cost of the hardrives would be 300 dollars..
Well, this would be 10 terrabytes for 300 dollars. I would love to know your computer parts supplier

QuoteQuote:
shall i play the same trick with the cost of throw away batteries compared to rechargables.. say during the lifetime of the camera..
Trick? All I was doing was making an observation. I was honest and accurate with my numbers. Nothing was deceitful. A trick would be if I used figures which were either innaccurate or intentionally misleading. 300$ for 10TB is far more of a trick than anything I suggested.

QuoteQuote:
what we are seeing here is just how wastefull the modern american society has become.. we can aford it.. why not.. who cares.. he he he..
Yes, flavor your xenophobic remark with a little giggle at the end. That makes it OK. BTW, I am not American, but that doesn't make me less offended by your narrow minded little jabs. How on Earth you have taken it to mean that I am suggesting we should be using our SD cards once only is another issue. I never thought of doing so at all; I just have been struck at how inexpensive they are and made an observational comparison.

QuoteQuote:
in the UK we not quite so bad.. its never occured to us (yet) to throw away sd cards.. not cos we are morally any better but simply because everything we buy costs twice as much as it does in the US..
I have serious doubts that the English are much different than Americans or anyone else in this regard. I have traveled a lot and the one thing I have learned is that people everywhere are more or less the same. The biggest differences IMO is that those in more affluent countries are more judgemental, but other than that, people are the same.
QuoteQuote:
food for thought..

trog
Quite frankly, a number of things irk me about not just this one post of yours, but of many of yours in this thread. Why you chose to take personal stabs and make judgements about me simply from an observation I posted is totally beyond me. It has given me a basis of what to think when I see a post from yourself in the future though.
02-13-2007, 04:25 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by EddyinGA Quote
Now, the question that this is all begging to be asked is......

Has digital photography made us lazy?

Is it now just easier to take a bunch of bracketed shots from a bunch of different angles for the express purpose of getting that "One" really great photo?

Has it taken the thinking part away from the art?


Uh, Oh, I can feel those flames a coming
No flame from me. I think there is a balance to be struck and to be sure I know there are many digital photographers out there who confuse more with better. This is certainly not to say all, but that factor does come into play. Wish I had more time to discuss, but work beckons.
02-13-2007, 04:29 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by EddyinGA Quote
Now, the question that this is all begging to be asked is......

Has digital photography made us lazy?

Is it now just easier to take a bunch of bracketed shots from a bunch of different angles for the express purpose of getting that "One" really great photo?

Has it taken the thinking part away from the art?


Uh, Oh, I can feel those flames a coming
How can taking more shots from more angles be lazy? Sounds like MORE work to me!
02-13-2007, 04:31 PM   #28
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Newegg.com is selling Transcend SD 150X 2G cards for $22.00. I just picked up a second card today.

I don't think I would use SD cards for any type of backup purposes. At work one of our departments purchases Canon Powershot cameras for field use and 1G SD cards for storage. Out of ten SD cards they recently purchased 2 went bad within a week. SD cards do not seem as reliable as the thicker CF cards are. Of course it also helps to get a reliable brand.

I generally use two SD cards. One for normal use and the second will be for when the first one fails. I always assume at some point there will be a failure. So I download and process pictures from the camera to a computer then back up the hard drive just in case.

It's not a matter of if but a matter of when a failure will occur.
02-13-2007, 05:13 PM   #29
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come on Darren M.. i see absolutly nothing at all to suggest that my semi humouse post was digging at u.. in fact it wasnt even aimed at u just the readers in general..

if u see things in my posts that arnt there and imagine personal attacks i am not surprized i am not flavour of the month with u.. he he

just pretend the.. he he.. is one of these.. or increase your tablet dosage..

trog

ps.. if u think my figures are wrong.. its entirely my sons fault.. he was banging away at the calculator..
02-13-2007, 06:48 PM   #30
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