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08-03-2016, 02:32 AM   #91
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
Interresting, and what the take of the K3 owners? They are not overall satisfied?
Let me add further clarification..... K-1 owners who have previously used a K3 (a quite natural thing) seem to be satisfied with their choice and would have some experience of what each camera brings to the table for them

Obviously a K3 owner who hasn't spent some significant time with a K-1 can't form an opinion between these cameras with the same first hand experience..... but of course.... they can be very happy with their K3.... to suggest otherwise would just be silly.


Last edited by noelpolar; 08-03-2016 at 02:38 AM.
08-03-2016, 04:30 AM   #92
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QuoteOriginally posted by noelpolar Quote

Obviously a K3 owner who hasn't spent some significant time with a K-1 can't form an opinion between these cameras with the same first hand experience..... but of course.... they can be very happy with their K3.... to suggest otherwise would just be silly.
But we can make an opinion about what image quality we are satisfied with, how much money we will spend and how much weight we want to carry.....
08-03-2016, 05:41 AM   #93
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
To me the answer is no. What I need is camera equipment that it is with me; I don't really need more resolution (although I would have been nice). My current carry around gear is the K-3, 16-50/2.8, 77 Limited and the FA* 200/4 Macro. I can feel it on my back. I will shortly replace the 16-50 (due to its flare performance) with the 15 Limited and the 20-40 Limited. Next year I'll buy that new compact 55-300 and replace the K-3 with its replacement (it might have more than 24mp and certainly pixel shift). This will cover a focal length range (in FF terms) from 23.5-450mm at only little more than 900g (about the same weight as the K-1 body alone)! In the film days this would have been pure science fiction. FF is simply too large and heavy, but I might buy a K-1 down the line for shooting close to the car...
I agree with your choice but I think you have forgotten something when calculating the weight: your kit will be far heavier than 800g.

---------- Post added 08-03-16 at 02:42 PM ----------

And dont forget the new 55-300 will not work with K-3 (electronic aperture is only granted fro K3-II on)

---------- Post added 08-03-16 at 02:48 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by noelpolar Quote
Let me add further clarification..... K-1 owners who have previously used a K3 (a quite natural thing) seem to be satisfied with their choice and would have some experience of what each camera brings to the table for them

Obviously a K3 owner who hasn't spent some significant time with a K-1 can't form an opinion between these cameras with the same first hand experience..... but of course.... they can be very happy with their K3.... to suggest otherwise would just be silly.
I never drove a Porsche, which I think is a very nice car, but I know it is too expensive for my budget.
Like Nicolas06 stated, K1, at twice the price of K3-II, and the need of buying FF lenses, may be too expensive for many users.
And, regardless of price, some of us who like to travel light and already are appealed by M4/3 offerings may think a FF kit would be too big and too heavy for them.
08-03-2016, 06:16 AM - 1 Like   #94
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
But we can make an opinion about what image quality we are satisfied with, how much money we will spend and how much weight we want to carry.....
Of course..... it's all about opinions....fact based discussion is way to difficult.

Interestingly this thread is about wether the upgrade to K-1 was worth it..... and who can really comment on that then those that have........ and then most posts seem to be coming from those that havent upgraded.... strange.


Last edited by noelpolar; 08-03-2016 at 06:31 AM.
08-03-2016, 07:07 AM   #95
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QuoteOriginally posted by noelpolar Quote
Of course..... it's all about opinions....fact based discussion is way to difficult.

Interestingly this thread is about wether the upgrade to K-1 was worth it..... and who can really comment on that then those that have........ and then most posts seem to be coming from those that havent upgraded.... strange.
With all due respect to those who have upgraded.....there are a lot of questions left unanswered.

As I pointed out on several occasions, I will find out the answers to my questions, when I have access to a K-1. The K-1 users are expressing for the most part pie in the sky platitudes unsupported by comparison images. Photography at it's essence is creating images.

For example, when people go in about the improved keeper rate, my K-3 keeper rate yesterday walking around my back yard with monopod was 208 keepers out of 211. So it's frustrating when people go on an on about the better AF, when I won't buy a camera for better AF. I've learned how to get good enough AF with my K-3. People go on about the 6400 ISO image performance, but, the 6400 ISO image performance is still considerably worse than the 100 ISO performance on either the K-1 or K-3, so again. I need concrete examples as to how this will make a difference to me.

Especially given that i regularly post images taken up to 3200 ISO on a K-3.

When a K-1 poster posts that the K-1 is better at something I don't need it to be better at, it can be a little frustrating.

A lot of K-1 glorifications, leave me scratching my head.

So between the lack of comparison images definitively establishing a K-1 advantage to image output, and the people who apparently were having problems getting their K-3 to work properly. One good K-1 image taken at 6400 ISO with no comparison K-3 image of any kind does not establish an advantage.

The problem with 36 MP, and this has been true since the days of the D800, is unless you pixel peep, the differences aren't noticeable in the output. That was true when the D800 came out and we were all still shooting K-5s. Now that the K-3 is 24 MP, the differences are even less.

So of course most of the posters are K-3 users. They are the ones trying to make sense of the completely anecdotal information posted. The gushers, the salesmen, those caught up n new camera fever. We are just looking for some meaningful info, that might convince us to buy this camera. Clearly, many of the early adapters are emphasizing features that we are secondary to getting the best IQ. IN my above example. I'm sure the K-1 is better. The problem is given my 208 in focus images with the 3 I missed being pressing the shutter button before the camera was done AFing. in that situation, it cannot be worth if for me to buy a K-1, based on better AF. The situation didn't call for it.

We are looking at the situations we shoot in looking for situation where the K-1 will help us out. It hasn't been easy. Information has been slow, inconclusive and anecdotal at best.

What I've seen people so far say, amounts to "It's worth it for the rush of having a new toy to play with." I was looking at the work of a buddy, who used to shoot with 5D mkII and now shoots with a D810. He, went on and on about the higher resolution etc, but, looking at his images in his booth, I couldn't tell which was which. There are a lot of people who need to have that experience.

Last edited by normhead; 08-03-2016 at 07:28 AM.
08-03-2016, 11:33 AM   #96
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QuoteOriginally posted by noelpolar Quote
Of course..... it's all about opinions....fact based discussion is way to difficult.

Interestingly this thread is about wether the upgrade to K-1 was worth it..... and who can really comment on that then those that have........ and then most posts seem to be coming from those that havent upgraded.... strange.
The question is only of interrest for people that didn't switch yet and are not sure. People that were always sure and upgraded right aways are far less likely to have any regrets. They were sure of what they wanted to begin with.

But if one not sure, there reasons for that, and the reason are likely still valid. Reason that neverbothered people that switched without hesitation.

At least biz engineer case is a case of try it and then buy it. But unfortunately, this is not that easy to implement. How much would a 1 week rent cost with K1 and say 2 DFA lenses? 300€?
08-03-2016, 11:36 AM   #97
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
With all due respect to those who have upgraded.....there are a lot of questions left unanswered.
I'm learning not to waste my time trying to answer those questions!

I switched to Pentax FF photography over 3 months ago. Since then, and perhaps 25,000 frames later, shot in many locations doing all sorts of work, I've experienced greater success measured by what matters to me. (Enjoyment; count of good photos coming away from an event; etc).
I have posted very many of these photos to DPReview.

My K-3II now has the role of doing nothing unless my K-1 breaks.

I have no more need to explain to APS-C users why I favour FF than APS-C users need to justify to m4/3 why they favour APS-C.
(And I don't expect 645z users to explain to me why they favour their format over FF).
08-03-2016, 12:02 PM   #98
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QuoteOriginally posted by Barry Pearson Quote
I have no more need to explain to APS-C users why I favour FF than APS-C users need to justify to m4/3 why they favour APS-C.
(And I don't expect 645z users to explain to me why they favour their format over FF).
Nor any of them have any reason to switch because you find it was worth it for you... They have all the rights in the world to not want to upgrade and be happy with what they have.


Noelpolar quite well described the situation In think:

QuoteQuote:
Let me add further clarification..... K-1 owners who have previously used a K3 (a quite natural thing) seem to be satisfied with their choice and would have some experience of what each camera brings to the table for them

Obviously a K3 owner who hasn't spent some significant time with a K-1 can't form an opinion between these cameras with the same first hand experience..... but of course.... they can be very happy with their K3.... to suggest otherwise would just be silly.
There no particular reason to upgrade or to not upgrade. Most people are happy with their current gear and the one that were not hopefully upgraded.

You'll always find people that did not want upgrade but should... and you'll find people that did upgrade but didn't need. But in a sense that their problem and responsability.

08-03-2016, 01:04 PM   #99
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How can you answer the question about the K3? I was happy with my K3 -- I still am -- I just wanted to get a K-1 and am pleased with that too. Maybe I'm too easy to please or maybe they are both high quality cameras.

Maybe there is some rationalization on the part of those who are shooting with K3s as to why they don't need a K-1. Maybe they are just smarter than those who have purchased a K-1 and aren't as prone to wasting their money. Maybe most everyone who shoots anything except for a phone camera is wasting money.

Assuming most of us are shooting as a hobby, the value to enjoyment ratio is the sort of thing that is only answerable on an individual basis. It is why folks go out and buy new skis or, golf clubs, or whatever gear their hobby of choice involves. It is always cheaper to keep using what you already have, but it may not be as much fun as trying something new.
08-03-2016, 01:25 PM   #100
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QuoteQuote:
I have no more need to explain to APS-C users why I favour FF than APS-C users need to justify to m4/3 why they favour APS-C.
(And I don't expect 645z users to explain to me why they favour their format over FF).
Then don't... the answer to that is simple. I read your opening statement
QuoteQuote:
My K-3II now has the role of doing nothing unless my K-1 breaks.
Which you felt compelled to post. Now folks like me are left to trying to determine if such a statement is at all relevant to ourselves. It may be, it may not be. But, if you're going to post it, you need to explain it. You aren't some kind off god on high who's decrees become instant proof.

And personally, I find "I've posted all over the internet got find my posts" to be about the lest helpful kind of response. You, who are infinitely familiar with every image you've ever taken are asking us to search your work to find examples that support your statements?

Imagine if Itook a post like this if
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/10-pentax-slr-lens-discussion/326702-prim...ml#post3723458

And didn't show the examples, but just said "My images are posted all over the internet, go look for them." What would that post be worth? Nothing?
Apply to the above.
08-03-2016, 01:35 PM   #101
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
How can you answer the question about the K3? I was happy with my K3 -- I still am -- I just wanted to get a K-1 and am pleased with that too. Maybe I'm too easy to please or maybe they are both high quality cameras.

Maybe there is some rationalization on the part of those who are shooting with K3s as to why they don't need a K-1. Maybe they are just smarter than those who have purchased a K-1 and aren't as prone to wasting their money. Maybe most everyone who shoots anything except for a phone camera is wasting money.

Assuming most of us are shooting as a hobby, the value to enjoyment ratio is the sort of thing that is only answerable on an individual basis. It is why folks go out and buy new skis or, golf clubs, or whatever gear their hobby of choice involves. It is always cheaper to keep using what you already have, but it may not be as much fun as trying something new.
Well if you get more joy from getting something new than doing the activity itself this is not a very good indicator for the activity, honestly.

I don't think K1 owers did it just for the new thing. But I see no reason to think that there much more K3 owner that rationnalize than K1 owner that rationnalize. Well you right there may be more K3 owners because they are much more numerous, but let's speak of percentages.

Hopefully people that truely benefit can upgrade if it is not too expensive for them and people that don't care... Stay with what they have.
08-03-2016, 02:24 PM   #102
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
Well if you get more joy from getting something new than doing the activity itself this is not a very good indicator for the activity, honestly.

I don't think K1 owers did it just for the new thing. But I see no reason to think that there much more K3 owner that rationnalize than K1 owner that rationnalize. Well you right there may be more K3 owners because they are much more numerous, but let's speak of percentages.

Hopefully people that truely benefit can upgrade if it is not too expensive for them and people that don't care... Stay with what they have.
I don't think you can say that at all. I didn't buy any gear for two years between when I bought K3 and when I bought a DFA 24-70 in preparation for the K-1 release. My wife shoots weddings and we were going to need to replace our 4 year old K5 II anyway and it made more sense to get a K-1 than a K3 II as a replacement.

But what harm is there in saying that it is fun to put new gear through its paces? That doesn't mean I don't enjoy the hobby, just that I enjoy shooting with new cameras/lenses as well.
08-03-2016, 03:59 PM   #103
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
A lot of K-1 glorifications, leave me scratching my head.
Just feel happy for them, it's not like they switched to Sony or something!
08-03-2016, 04:11 PM   #104
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
Interresting, and what the take of the K3 owners? They are not overall satisfied?
I'm really getting tired of this refrain. Can you please quit?

There are only a few thousand K-1 buyers a month for you to protect from their own ignorance anyway.
08-03-2016, 04:12 PM   #105
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QuoteOriginally posted by noelpolar Quote
, it's not like they switched to Sony or something

And that hits the nail on the head,plenty of Pentax users that wanted FF, can now remain with Pentax.


I, personally, was looking @ sony....plenty of positives over there! BUT, when K1 was announced.BINGO!
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