Why is Pentax dropping wireless flash mode?

**skid2964** · 07-26-2016, 10:19 PM

I noticed in the user manuals for the K-1 and K-70, there is no option for wireless flash mode. The camera flash can no longer be a wireless flash controller.... WHY!??? I love this feature...
Does anyone else hate to see this go? I guess I will have to buy radio flash units like all the canikon folks...

mee · 07-26-2016, 10:21 PM

I thought they only had optical support.. did they have radio transmitters?

I like the radios better since they don't require Line of Sight to make them function... so that gives more leverage at placing light sources..

**clackers** · 07-26-2016, 10:32 PM

Originally posted by skid2964

I noticed in the user manuals for the K-1 and K-70, there is no option for wireless flash mode. The camera flash can no longer be a wireless flash controller.... WHY!??? I love this feature... ...

Who said that?

The K-1 doesn't have an inbuilt flash. But put a 360 or 540 on top, for instance, and it can trigger others as in the past.

p111 of the manual confirms it.

Originally posted by skid2964

I guess I will have to buy radio flash units like all the canikon folks...

I have Cactus, Yongnuo and Acon triggers for my Pentaxes ... is that a problem?

cam_abyss · 07-26-2016, 10:39 PM

My Yongnuo 560 IV and 560TX work with the K1 FWIW

richandfleur · 07-26-2016, 10:49 PM

Yep it departed quietly on the k-s2 and now on the k-70 also.

You can no longer trigger off camera flashes from your on camera flash, like you could on the k-30.

Personally though I'd go for the new cactus vii units, as they can drive off camera HSS flashes via radio, so no requirement for line of site issues. And you don't need to buy a whole other Pentax HSS capable flash just to drive an off camera HSS flash?!

**skid2964** · 07-26-2016, 10:53 PM

Originally posted by clackers

Who said that?

The K-1 doesn't have an inbuilt flash. But put a 360 or 540 on top, for instance, and it can trigger others as in the past.

p111 of the manual confirms it.

I have Cactus, Yongnuo and Acon triggers for my Pentaxes ... is that a problem?

I didn't yet realize the K-1 had no on-board flash... my focus was more on the K-70...

Not a problem other than I hate it is now a necessity!

Adam · 07-26-2016, 10:57 PM

Originally posted by skid2964

I noticed in the user manuals for the K-1 and K-70, there is no option for wireless flash mode. The camera flash can no longer be a wireless flash controller.... WHY!??? I love this feature...
Does anyone else hate to see this go? I guess I will have to buy radio flash units like all the canikon folks...

Starting with the K-S1, Pentax sub-flagship models didn't have wireless flash. This has carried on to the K-S2 and K-70, and I'm sure it will continue to give users another incentive to consider the flagship line. I'm sure that whatever replaces the K-3 II will support wireless flash with the built-in flash. For now, there's the K-3 if you want that feature with the on-board flash.

To dispel any myths, if you have two compatible P-TTL flashguns you can set one to be a wireless master or controller.

Adam
PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide | Site Help | My Photography)

PentaxForums.com server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover these costs by donating or purchasing one of our Pentax eBooks. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, KEH, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

sewebster · 07-26-2016, 11:22 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Adam

I'm sure that whatever replaces the K-3 II will support wireless flash with the built-in flash.

If it has a built-in flash? (kinda hoping no, or at least that it does not lose GPS)

Adam · 07-26-2016, 11:49 PM

Originally posted by sewebster

If it has a built-in flash? (kinda hoping no, or at least that it does not lose GPS)

Built-in flash and GPS really shouldn't be mutually-exclusive. IMHO Pentax just took the easy way out with the K-3 II and gave it the K-1's GPS hardware while the K-1 was still being developed, and hence they piggybacked on the existing flash button in the K-3 so no changes to the housing would be needed.

**mattt** · 07-27-2016, 02:38 AM - **1 Like**

I agree with the OPs concern. IMO: This is an unnecessary defeaturing which reminds me of the petty product level "differentiation" within the Nikon line of DSLR.

richandfleur · 07-27-2016, 03:07 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by mattt

I agree with the OPs concern. IMO: This is an unnecessary defeaturing which reminds me of the petty product level "differentiation" within the Nikon line of DSLR.

Umm might as well make that a Canikon feature also.

Agree though. The k-30 packed all the punch of the higher models software wise, just in a body with no grip /less burst rate / smaller buffer / less physical switches and controls etc.

Only semi acceptable thing I could think of is running out of code space in the CPU and valuing the likes of pixel shift over flash master. On the flip side though, stop peddling the same old processor and up spec.

Not that I'd use it (much prefer radio trigger) and would take GPS over inbuilt flash, but I don't like the precedent it's setting. Still that ship has sailed as this is the 3rd model now not to be able to do this, so it's not a new issue really. Guess people are realising it now though as the k-30/k-50 model really should have it.

**Lowell Goudge** · 07-27-2016, 03:27 AM - **2 Likes**

FWIW the *istD has the most capable flash system of all Pentax cameras, including both PTTL and TTL modes, and not just HSS but also letting the built in flash operate as the master for slaved flashes even in HSS mode.

But at the end of the day, but ther than a bit of convenience in using the built in as the master, do you really want direct unfiltered flash on a subject when using wireless mode. If you're u are going to all the effort to have a multi flash set up, you probably are going to use in most cases a radio trigger any way,

deus ursus · 07-27-2016, 06:16 AM

Maybe they're planning on a flashgun with builtin wifi and a firmware upgrade on the top of the line cameras? :-)

mcgregni · 07-27-2016, 01:03 PM - **1 Like**

I go with the theory that its really product differentiation .... trying to create more space between the models in the range, to provide an incentive for an upgrade choice. What is disturbing is that this 'missing' flash feature on those lower cost bodies is not really well known. There have been loads of forum questions from owners who didn't realise their camera had no wireless flash capability without buying an accessory flash.

So it is catching people out. It seems unlikely to be a significant cost saver really .... not sure if the feature is only purely a software aspect or if there is more expensive hardware involved in the flash head itself ? The pre-flash obviously still occurs for normal P-TTL shots, so its just the optical communication signals that are missing, and these occur just after the metering pre-flash.

I feel it may be 'catching out' the wrong people. I can understand the lack of a built-in flash on the K3II and K1 ..... Pentax might reasonably expect users of those cameras to be sophisticated flash users who may already have multiple Pentax / Dedicated flashes and / or a radio remote flash system.

However the likely buyers of the lower-end models are less expected to fall into that category, and are more likely to be beginners or those wanting to learn about flash. So the ease and convenience of the built-in wireless trigger is ideal for them really. Not sure if Pentax are getting their target feature / user combinations wrong?

Nicolas06 · 07-31-2016, 02:06 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Adam

Built-in flash and GPS really shouldn't be mutually-exclusive. IMHO Pentax just took the easy way out with the K-3 II and gave it the K-1's GPS hardware while the K-1 was still being developed, and hence they piggybacked on the existing flash button in the K-3 so no changes to the housing would be needed.

I hope you are right... I mean the easiest way to start off camera flash is just to have the flash in one hand, the camera in another and let the on board flash trigger it. Did it many time. Shame to spend 100€ for another flash unit just for that.

To me with K3-II and K1 and with that KS2 and K70 lack off wireless mode... It really give the impresison that Pentax didn't prioritize at all the flash feature.

If K1 sell well as it is, then why would they put a flash on the K3-II sucessor? That's some money saved for them and help keep the form factor small.

I hope I am wrong... me was on the opposite school... That on contrary you could make the on board flash orientable for example to bounce on the walls/ceilling and maybe increase its number to 20 or something so that you could bring decent basic flash system to all your clients as long as you pushed the iso a bit too. But this didn't happen.

07-26-2016, 10:19 PM	#1
skid2964 Site Supporter Join Date: May 2008 Location: USA Posts: 614	Why is Pentax dropping wireless flash mode? I noticed in the user manuals for the K-1 and K-70, there is no option for wireless flash mode. The camera flash can no longer be a wireless flash controller.... WHY!??? I love this feature... Does anyone else hate to see this go? I guess I will have to buy radio flash units like all the canikon folks...

07-26-2016, 11:49 PM	#9
Adam Administrator Site Webmaster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 51,597	Originally posted by sewebster If it has a built-in flash? (kinda hoping no, or at least that it does not lose GPS) Built-in flash and GPS really shouldn't be mutually-exclusive. IMHO Pentax just took the easy way out with the K-3 II and gave it the K-1's GPS hardware while the K-1 was still being developed, and hence they piggybacked on the existing flash button in the K-3 so no changes to the housing would be needed. Adam PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide \| Site Help \| My Photography) PentaxForums.com server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover these costs by donating or purchasing one of our Pentax eBooks. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, KEH, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

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07-26-2016, 10:21 PM	#2
mee Veteran Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 7,403	I thought they only had optical support.. did they have radio transmitters? I like the radios better since they don't require Line of Sight to make them function... so that gives more leverage at placing light sources..

07-26-2016, 10:32 PM	#3
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by skid2964 I noticed in the user manuals for the K-1 and K-70, there is no option for wireless flash mode. The camera flash can no longer be a wireless flash controller.... WHY!??? I love this feature... ... Who said that? The K-1 doesn't have an inbuilt flash. But put a 360 or 540 on top, for instance, and it can trigger others as in the past. p111 of the manual confirms it. Originally posted by skid2964 I guess I will have to buy radio flash units like all the canikon folks... I have Cactus, Yongnuo and Acon triggers for my Pentaxes ... is that a problem?

07-26-2016, 10:39 PM	#4
cam_abyss New Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 22	My Yongnuo 560 IV and 560TX work with the K1 FWIW

07-26-2016, 10:49 PM	#5
richandfleur Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Palmerston North, New Zealand Photos: Albums Posts: 1,788	Yep it departed quietly on the k-s2 and now on the k-70 also. You can no longer trigger off camera flashes from your on camera flash, like you could on the k-30. Personally though I'd go for the new cactus vii units, as they can drive off camera HSS flashes via radio, so no requirement for line of site issues. And you don't need to buy a whole other Pentax HSS capable flash just to drive an off camera HSS flash?!

07-26-2016, 10:53 PM	#6
skid2964 Site Supporter Join Date: May 2008 Location: USA Posts: 614 Original Poster	Originally posted by clackers Who said that? The K-1 doesn't have an inbuilt flash. But put a 360 or 540 on top, for instance, and it can trigger others as in the past. p111 of the manual confirms it. I have Cactus, Yongnuo and Acon triggers for my Pentaxes ... is that a problem? I didn't yet realize the K-1 had no on-board flash... my focus was more on the K-70... Not a problem other than I hate it is now a necessity!

07-26-2016, 10:57 PM	#7
Adam Administrator Site Webmaster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 51,597	Originally posted by skid2964 I noticed in the user manuals for the K-1 and K-70, there is no option for wireless flash mode. The camera flash can no longer be a wireless flash controller.... WHY!??? I love this feature... Does anyone else hate to see this go? I guess I will have to buy radio flash units like all the canikon folks... Starting with the K-S1, Pentax sub-flagship models didn't have wireless flash. This has carried on to the K-S2 and K-70, and I'm sure it will continue to give users another incentive to consider the flagship line. I'm sure that whatever replaces the K-3 II will support wireless flash with the built-in flash. For now, there's the K-3 if you want that feature with the on-board flash. To dispel any myths, if you have two compatible P-TTL flashguns you can set one to be a wireless master or controller. Adam PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide \| Site Help \| My Photography) PentaxForums.com server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover these costs by donating or purchasing one of our Pentax eBooks. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, KEH, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

07-26-2016, 11:22 PM - 1 Like	#8
sewebster Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Vancouver, BC Photos: Gallery Posts: 544	Originally posted by Adam I'm sure that whatever replaces the K-3 II will support wireless flash with the built-in flash. If it has a built-in flash? (kinda hoping no, or at least that it does not lose GPS)

07-27-2016, 02:38 AM - 1 Like	#10
mattt Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Niagara Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,907	I agree with the OPs concern. IMO: This is an unnecessary defeaturing which reminds me of the petty product level "differentiation" within the Nikon line of DSLR.

07-27-2016, 03:07 AM - 1 Like	#11
richandfleur Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Palmerston North, New Zealand Photos: Albums Posts: 1,788	Originally posted by mattt I agree with the OPs concern. IMO: This is an unnecessary defeaturing which reminds me of the petty product level "differentiation" within the Nikon line of DSLR. Umm might as well make that a Canikon feature also. Agree though. The k-30 packed all the punch of the higher models software wise, just in a body with no grip /less burst rate / smaller buffer / less physical switches and controls etc. Only semi acceptable thing I could think of is running out of code space in the CPU and valuing the likes of pixel shift over flash master. On the flip side though, stop peddling the same old processor and up spec. Not that I'd use it (much prefer radio trigger) and would take GPS over inbuilt flash, but I don't like the precedent it's setting. Still that ship has sailed as this is the 3rd model now not to be able to do this, so it's not a new issue really. Guess people are realising it now though as the k-30/k-50 model really should have it.

07-27-2016, 03:27 AM - 2 Likes	#12
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,891	FWIW the *istD has the most capable flash system of all Pentax cameras, including both PTTL and TTL modes, and not just HSS but also letting the built in flash operate as the master for slaved flashes even in HSS mode. But at the end of the day, but ther than a bit of convenience in using the built in as the master, do you really want direct unfiltered flash on a subject when using wireless mode. If you're u are going to all the effort to have a multi flash set up, you probably are going to use in most cases a radio trigger any way,

07-27-2016, 06:16 AM	#13
deus ursus Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Stårheim, Norway Posts: 658	Maybe they're planning on a flashgun with builtin wifi and a firmware upgrade on the top of the line cameras? :-)

07-27-2016, 01:03 PM - 1 Like	#14
mcgregni Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Surrey, England Posts: 2,603	I go with the theory that its really product differentiation .... trying to create more space between the models in the range, to provide an incentive for an upgrade choice. What is disturbing is that this 'missing' flash feature on those lower cost bodies is not really well known. There have been loads of forum questions from owners who didn't realise their camera had no wireless flash capability without buying an accessory flash. So it is catching people out. It seems unlikely to be a significant cost saver really .... not sure if the feature is only purely a software aspect or if there is more expensive hardware involved in the flash head itself ? The pre-flash obviously still occurs for normal P-TTL shots, so its just the optical communication signals that are missing, and these occur just after the metering pre-flash. I feel it may be 'catching out' the wrong people. I can understand the lack of a built-in flash on the K3II and K1 ..... Pentax might reasonably expect users of those cameras to be sophisticated flash users who may already have multiple Pentax / Dedicated flashes and / or a radio remote flash system. However the likely buyers of the lower-end models are less expected to fall into that category, and are more likely to be beginners or those wanting to learn about flash. So the ease and convenience of the built-in wireless trigger is ideal for them really. Not sure if Pentax are getting their target feature / user combinations wrong?

07-31-2016, 02:06 AM - 1 Like	#15
Nicolas06 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 4,854	Originally posted by Adam Built-in flash and GPS really shouldn't be mutually-exclusive. IMHO Pentax just took the easy way out with the K-3 II and gave it the K-1's GPS hardware while the K-1 was still being developed, and hence they piggybacked on the existing flash button in the K-3 so no changes to the housing would be needed. I hope you are right... I mean the easiest way to start off camera flash is just to have the flash in one hand, the camera in another and let the on board flash trigger it. Did it many time. Shame to spend 100€ for another flash unit just for that. To me with K3-II and K1 and with that KS2 and K70 lack off wireless mode... It really give the impresison that Pentax didn't prioritize at all the flash feature. If K1 sell well as it is, then why would they put a flash on the K3-II sucessor? That's some money saved for them and help keep the form factor small. I hope I am wrong... me was on the opposite school... That on contrary you could make the on board flash orientable for example to bounce on the walls/ceilling and maybe increase its number to 20 or something so that you could bring decent basic flash system to all your clients as long as you pushed the iso a bit too. But this didn't happen.