Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
08-09-2016, 01:30 AM   #1
Senior Member




Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Pekin, IL
Posts: 207
Which batteries do you hate, and why (AA NiMH vs. D-LI90 vs. D-LI109)?

Dear fellow forum members,

Which type of battery do you prefer for your camera bodies, and why? I'd like to know reasons, not simply that some thing is or is not "professional." Calling a piece of gear "professional" or "not professional" is hardly an objective statement, and it gives no reason why one thing is more useful than another. I mention this specifically since it seems every time I ask about AA compatibility for a body, someone chimes in that "professional" cameras don't (can't) use AA's. I'd also like to know why asking about an alternative power source evokes such vitriol among certain forum members. Frankly, if Pentax announced potato battery compatibility (Make electricity from Potato?), I'd be happy for all those who want to use potato batteries. Is it a case of thinking that they could have included "feature y" if they hadn't wasted time including AA battery compatibility?

Since I asked for your reasons for the battery you prefer, I'll start with mine: I hate having a different dedicated charger for each battery-powered item I own. I HATE that. Also, AA NiMH are far cheaper, especially per watt-hour, than Li-Ion, have far fewer end-of-life problems, and are technically safer (although it's admittedly been a few years since the last Sony laptop-bomb I heard of [https://www.engadget.com/2006/10/19/sony-battery-recall-approaches-10-million-costs-mounting/]).

Thanks for your responses, and let the flaming begin!

James

08-09-2016, 02:47 AM   #2
Moderator
Loyal Site Supporter
BigMackCam's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: North East of England
Posts: 5,504
I like the convenience of changing a single battery whilst out shooting, rather than fiddling with AAs. Having said that, I also like the option of an alternative power source should it be necessary, so if I'm going on holiday I take the AA tray for my D-BG5 grip. Realistically, I can't ever see me needing it, as I always have more than enough spare camera batteries with me (if I'm going away for a long weekend, I typically have a fresh battery in the K-3 and one in the grip, then two spares just in case).

I also dislike having lots of different batteries that require individual chargers, though I accept that various devices need different sizes of battery for capacity reasons. Ideally, I'd be able to buy a universal charger that would handle four to six batteries of any type, mixed, simultaneously.

I haven't yet run into end-of-life problems with OEM camera batteries, and for my spares I use a brand called Expro - they're good quality and seem to last well. For AAs (which I use in my flashes), I use Panasonic Eneloop Pro.
08-09-2016, 03:11 AM   #3
Forum Member




Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 79
I'm not a huge fan of the LI109 in my K30 seems a bit underpowered. I just ordered a second one from Adorama (third party power2000 - hopefully this will be ok). The LI90 in the K-7 etc seem much better (larger capacity of course). I would have preferred one of these in the K30 rather than the AA option. Still a great little camera though.

Nikon batteries seem good EXCEPT the battery in my very old D1H which has terrible batteries. I have actually butchered a few and put new NiMH cells in the casing which is a bit hokey but seems to work a bit better - can't expect much from a 15 year old camera though I guess

Apart from that I find the dazzling array of NiMHs available (Amazon, Imedion, EBL, Eneloop, sunlabz etc. etc.) a bit overwhelming when trying to decide which to buy. Most review sites seem to just say eneloop are best !! but that is the web these days lots of content with little real info.

cheers
08-09-2016, 03:23 AM   #4
Site Supporter
Sandy Hancock's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Adelaide Hills, South Australia
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 5,245
I hate flat batteries. Anything with charge in it will do me.

Having said that, I have sold my K-S2 and have my K-S1 on the market to consolidate my bodies to DLi90 only. Not that I hate the DLi109, just that I'd rather not have two chargers.

08-09-2016, 04:34 AM   #5
Site Supporter




Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: South West UK
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 506
I don't have the time or energy to hate anything as insignificant as batteries.
I charge them when they need it, change them when they're flat, use AAs in my grip if I have no other option, wouldn't use AAs if I didn't have the option...what's to hate?
As for pro or otherwise...no pro would care what chemistry or shape the battery is as long as it works.
08-09-2016, 04:55 AM   #6
Forum Member




Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 70
I hate having to buy very expensive new backup batteries when they decide to change the format.
If they need 7.2V, two 18650 would suffice, and blow the hell out of current proprietary batteries for capacity (2500-3500mAh). I'm sure they could use the small size increase for something useful.
Get a good charger, and you're set. And that's the main reason they don't use it.


P.S.:Kudos to Ricoh (I still call a Pentax camera Pentax, but it's Ricoh who makes the decisions) for keeping Dli90 for K1, hopefully they keep it for the next top APS.
08-09-2016, 05:22 AM   #7
Senior Member




Join Date: Oct 2013
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 264
I much prefer Eneloops over the D-Li109 in my K-30, mostly because they last longer, though they do seem to give less warning before running out. It's also nice that I can grab another set from one of my flashes in a pinch.

Recently they've also been operating the aperture block far better than the D-Li109.
08-09-2016, 05:39 AM   #8
Senior Member
fb_penpho's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: London
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 183
For flash units as well

AA NiMH has the BIG disadvantage of not having a high enough voltage. So no matter how much you charge, a camera may reject far too early because it detects the low voltage, even though the battery still contains a big charge.

On the same lines I like Li-ion for it's high capacity and low self dischage, plus high stabel voltage. I would like to have flash units powered by camera batteries for the same reason.

08-09-2016, 06:48 AM   #9
Site Supporter
savoche's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 7,707
I like the idea of using AAs, but I never do. I would love to have the same kind of battery for every device I own, but that's not happening. Nothing to hate, though - and Pentax has kept the same li190 for their top-line cameras since the K-7, including the 645D and Z, I believe, so I think they're doing better than most.
08-09-2016, 09:30 AM   #10
Site Supporter
reh321's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: South Bend, IN, USA
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 2,724
The first picture I tried to take on the first outing my wife and I took with my then-new Pentax Super Program failed - that was my introduction to how that camera ate those tiny and relatively expensive button batteries; we spent an unfortunate part of that outing looking for those batteries. That was over thirty years ago, but I've always been a tad paranoid about batteries ever since then. So, I'm quite glad to have a AA-option for my K-30, since I can get them in a few minutes at any convenience store. When I'm using standard D-LI batteries, however, I don't really care which ones I'm using, because I don't take many pictures on any given day, so any of them has sufficient capacity for me. {I do have multiple backup batteries for my Q-7, however, since they go so fast}
08-09-2016, 10:47 AM   #11
New Member




Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 24
My first DSLR was a K100D, which was set up for AA batteries. I bought 4 sets of batteries. Over a period of time, and even though they might have been freshly charged, the camera ran out of power very quickly or needed repeated switching off and on again to keep it live. Every time I went to use the camera it would not start. Following web research, I tried a non-rechargeable CV3 battery which seems to work at a cost and, more recently, rechargeable Eneloop Pros seem to work.

Because of the above problems, I bought a K30 and, later, a K50 - the K100d being passed for use by a grandson or as an emergency backup - and I have had no problems at all with the batteries for those cameras or their working capacity. I have added an aftermarket(Ansmann) battery and that is performing well. I wish that there were fewer battery types/chargers, but the primary point is that they should work, and safely.
08-09-2016, 11:41 AM   #12
Site Supporter
severalsnakes's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Sedalia, MO
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,411
lol I agree with the folks who don't have the energy to "hate" batteries.

I would say I prefer the Li-ion batteries over the NiMHs. I like having just the ONE battery and not four that I have to make sure are flipped the right way. I shoot with mostly manual lenses, so the Li-ion seems to last forever - I'll have to get back to you on how it does with an auto-focus lens. Way back when I had the AA adapter for my K-30, it seemed like the camera would sometimes behave badly with AAs (but that may be because I had the cheap knock-off adapter) - it would refuse to come on unless I popped the batteries out and back in, etc. I've never had an issue that I can pin on my Li-ion batteries.

The Wasabi brand spares are king, as far as I'm concerned, and the Wasabi chargers are waaaaaay better than the Pentax charger. The Wasabi chargers have fold-away prongs, a red/green indicator light for not charged/charged, AND the cradle of the charger pops off so you can interchange it with other Wasabi chargers. So, when I go on a trip and take my MX-1, Sony WX350, and K-S2/K-30, I take one Wasabi charger and the three separate cradles for each battery type. It saves a lot of space in my camera gear backpack. :-)
08-09-2016, 12:17 PM   #13
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: New York
Posts: 3,015
I prefer rechargeable AA for everything, but I don't like the added carrying weight of a battery grip just to use AA instead of the proprietary Pentax battery. My recent night landscape fetish can send me hiking with a camera, equatorial sky tracker, walkie talkie, headlamp, GPS, and flashlight. That's 6 devices. Imagine if all of them used different battery formats: I'd need 6 different sets of spare batteries plus 6 chargers.

I check battery format when buying new field equipment. If competing items have similar features I will buy the one that uses AA batteries.
08-09-2016, 05:44 PM   #14
Loyal Site Supporter
AquaDome's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: New Carlisle, IN
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 1,399
Most electronic devices "hate" rechargeable AA and AAA batteries because they don't put out the same voltage as regular alkaline batteries.
08-09-2016, 07:15 PM   #15
Senior Member




Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Pekin, IL
Posts: 207
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by freddyisaac Quote
I'm not a huge fan of the LI109 in my K30 seems a bit underpowered. I just ordered a second one from Adorama (third party power2000 - hopefully this will be ok). The LI90 in the K-7 etc seem much better (larger capacity of course). I would have preferred one of these in the K30 rather than the AA option. Still a great little camera though. . . .
I must admit the D-Li109 confuses me. The only reason I like it is because cameras that take it often take the D-BH109, which is what I'm using in my K-50. (Even gave my D-Li109 & charger to a fellow Pentax user -- never even tried them.) I'd also thought that they had room for a D-Li90 in less room than they had set aside for the D-BH109 battery adapter.

As much as I like NiMH AA's, I have to admit that Li-Ion beats them for watt*hours per cu. in. (and lb.), so when the NiMH battery adapter beats your Li-Ion battery for # of shots, something's wrong. I thought they should have come up with a Li-Ion the same shape as the adapter, which should definitely have satisfied all the day-long shooting people.
QuoteOriginally posted by freddyisaac Quote
. . . Apart from that I find the dazzling array of NiMHs available (Amazon, Imedion, EBL, Eneloop, sunlabz etc. etc.) a bit overwhelming when trying to decide which to buy. Most review sites seem to just say eneloop are best !! but that is the web these days lots of content with little real info. . . .
I can understand your consternation. There are a few really good rechargeable battery manufacturers out there (Panasonic, Fujitsu, Ansmann come to mind), but there are a lot that are trying to roll the cheapest battery they can, and often they OEM for the big disposable battery names, who don't really seem to care about their rechargeable business.

---------- Post added 08-09-16 at 09:21 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by dafbp Quote
I hate having to buy very expensive new backup batteries when they decide to change the format.
If they need 7.2V, two 18650 would suffice, and blow the hell out of current proprietary batteries for capacity (2500-3500mAh). I'm sure they could use the small size increase for something useful.
Get a good charger, and you're set. And that's the main reason they don't use it.


P.S.:Kudos to Ricoh (I still call a Pentax camera Pentax, but it's Ricoh who makes the decisions) for keeping Dli90 for K1, hopefully they keep it for the next top APS.
Yes. For me, I'm not so much in love with the NiMH as I am the idea that I can use inexpensive commodity batteries that share a charger with other things. I've always viewed proprietary batteries as the manufacturer's attempt to "lock you in" after the sale, not being satisfied with delivering you a well-engineered product that will be outdated in two years. And the extra chargers. It is laudable that Pentax has kept the same battery shape for so long.

---------- Post added 08-09-16 at 09:23 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Scintilla Quote
I much prefer Eneloops over the D-Li109 in my K-30, mostly because they last longer, though they do seem to give less warning before running out. It's also nice that I can grab another set from one of my flashes in a pinch.

Recently they've also been operating the aperture block far better than the D-Li109.
Fortunately, I've never had aperture block problems with my K-50, but I'm a little surprised that different batteries would make a difference (other than perhaps charge level, which would definitely indicate a design problem with the camera). But I went so far as to purchase extra D-BH109's and use them as battery holders. They would be MUCH more useful as battery holders if Pentax would come up with caps to reduce the possibility of shorting out the top terminals, which happen to be right next to each other on the same face of the adapter.

---------- Post added 08-09-16 at 09:37 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by fb_penpho Quote
AA NiMH has the BIG disadvantage of not having a high enough voltage. So no matter how much you charge, a camera may reject far too early because it detects the low voltage, even though the battery still contains a big charge.
It is true that, like Li-Ion, NiMH batteries have a "shelf" for voltage drop-off toward end-of-life, making loaded voltage a difficult thing to use to detect low battery. The only reason alkaline batteries have an easier-to-read curve is because they have a high internal resistance, which means even fully charged they have difficulty running something as hungry as a digital camera in the first place. It really has nothing to do with voltage. Most Li-Ion fare better only because they have a battery meter built in to make them harder to blow up.
QuoteOriginally posted by fb_penpho Quote
On the same lines I like Li-ion for it's high capacity and low self dischage, plus high stabel voltage.
IF they use the proper Li-Ion chemistry, Li-Ion batteries can be low-self-discharge, but usually they don't, because you get more power in the same space with less weight by not caring about self-discharge rates. I don't know what Pentax uses. However, I don't think even LiFePO4 offers quite the low self-discharge rate of an Eneloop. Also, if the battery is a "smart" battery (which most Li-Ion batteries are), it takes energy to run the coulomb counter and metering.
QuoteOriginally posted by fb_penpho Quote
I would like to have flash units powered by camera batteries for the same reason.
Why don't they? That would eliminate a major reason for AA's in your bag, and make the flash, which you have to balance (most often) ON TOP OF your camera WHILE HOLDING IT STEADY significantly less bulky and heavy. It's not like someone's going to purchase a Pentax flash for their Canon so they can operate it in manual mode.

---------- Post added 08-09-16 at 09:40 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by nicolpa47 Quote
My first DSLR was a K100D, which was set up for AA batteries. I bought 4 sets of batteries. Over a period of time, and even though they might have been freshly charged, the camera ran out of power very quickly or needed repeated switching off and on again to keep it live. Every time I went to use the camera it would not start. Following web research, I tried a non-rechargeable CV3 battery which seems to work at a cost and, more recently, rechargeable Eneloop Pros seem to work.

Because of the above problems, I bought a K30 and, later, a K50 - the K100d being passed for use by a grandson or as an emergency backup - and I have had no problems at all with the batteries for those cameras or their working capacity. I have added an aftermarket(Ansmann) battery and that is performing well. I wish that there were fewer battery types/chargers, but the primary point is that they should work, and safely.
I seem to remember changing batteries often with my K200d, but my K50 has been blissfully free of such a problem. However, I also had a grip for my K200d (bought it, flash new & grip was "free" in 2008!) and I tried to get the camera to use grip batteries first, so that may have been part of the problem. Unfortunately the camera was out of warranty by the time I realized a pin in the grip connector was broken and the likely cause of my troubles.

---------- Post added 08-09-16 at 09:45 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by severalsnakes Quote
. . . The Wasabi brand spares are king, as far as I'm concerned, and the Wasabi chargers are waaaaaay better than the Pentax charger. The Wasabi chargers have fold-away prongs, a red/green indicator light for not charged/charged, AND the cradle of the charger pops off so you can interchange it with other Wasabi chargers. So, when I go on a trip and take my MX-1, Sony WX350, and K-S2/K-30, I take one Wasabi charger and the three separate cradles for each battery type. It saves a lot of space in my camera gear backpack. :-)
Well, it's good to have a recommendation about a non-OEM Li-Ion battery. So many proprietary things go on in Li-Ion batteries that I'm always skeptical of aftermarket replacements, usually spending ridiculous money for the OEM brand. It's really sad that many companies can't take 5 minutes to think about how you use a charger and what it should do to help you take more photographs. I understand (and applaud) Wasabi's desire to build a better mouse trap, but I'm saddened that Pentax, like most other camera manufacturers, didn't choose to spend more time developing a charger that they've included with ten or more different cameras and shipped to thousands of users.

---------- Post added 08-09-16 at 09:47 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by AquaDome Quote
Most electronic devices "hate" rechargeable AA and AAA batteries because they don't put out the same voltage as regular alkaline batteries.
Not so much any more. Devices that "hate" rechargeables are usually either really cheap or really low draw. Most devices I've seen recently that use lots of juice actually prefer or recommend NiMH simply because the lower internal resistance gives them longer run times despite the initial open-circuit voltage.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
aa, adapter, batteries, battery, camera, charger, compatibility, d-li109, d-li90, dslr, eneloop, forum, grip, li-ion, nimh, pentax, photography, potato, reasons, ricoh, shape, time, vs
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
D-Li90 & D-Li109 Battery Compatibility reduno Pentax DSLR Discussion 6 06-09-2015 01:17 PM
For Sale - Sold: D-LI109 3rd party batteries (2) and wall charger mamethot Sold Items 3 02-24-2014 09:48 AM
For Sale - Sold: Batteries, D-LI90 and D-LI50 Aegon Sold Items 2 02-04-2013 11:14 AM
AA baterije+D-BH109 vs li-ion D-LI109 mbukal Pentax K-r 5 05-20-2011 07:04 AM
D-BG4 lithium-ion vs nimh/aa's dtra Pentax Camera and Field Accessories 5 10-29-2010 09:17 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:41 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top