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08-22-2016, 09:09 AM   #1
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K-70/Lightroom Question

How long does it normally take Adobe to add raw files for a new camera to be able to be imported into Lightroom? I want to be able to edit .pef files in Adobe lightroom without having to convert the files to .dng.

I had a chat with Adobe and they said it is when Pentax sends them the file info and it will be included in the next update.

The raw files also cannot be seen in Mac Photos.

08-22-2016, 09:19 AM   #2
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Is there a particular reason you want to shoot in PEF format rather than DNG? I'm not aware of any benefit, but you may know something I don't

FWIW, I shoot RAW in DNG format with my K-5, K-3 & K-3II and load them straight into Lightroom. Once processed, I have my final edits exported to TIF (for posterity) and other exports as necessary - usually JPG...
08-22-2016, 10:01 AM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
I'm not aware of any benefit, but you may know something I don't
There may be other reasons, but I do know of one. It depends on whether you want to save the processing (develop module) metadata outside the Lightroom catalog. If the automatic option is chosen as part of Lightroom setup, all edit instructions (xmp metadata) for DNG are written in real time to the original imported source file.* For proprietary RAW files like PEF, Lightroom uses a sidecar .xmp file and the original file remains unchanged.

My personal practice is to not use this Lightroom feature and to back up the catalog at least as often as the source RAW files.


Steve

* There is a real, though unlikely, risk of file corruption during a write action, particular if there were a power or computer hardware failure.
08-22-2016, 10:19 AM   #4
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Yuck, I don't like the sound of that at all. Thanks for the info... I'll make sure I'm not using that feature...

08-22-2016, 10:57 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by k70k1000 Quote
How long does it normally take Adobe to add raw files for a new camera to be able to be imported into Lightroom? I want to be able to edit .pef files in Adobe lightroom without having to convert the files to .dng.

I had a chat with Adobe and they said it is when Pentax sends them the file info and it will be included in the next update.

The raw files also cannot be seen in Mac Photos.
I haven't seen an update the the Adobe ACR module since 9.6.1 and K-70 was not included at that time for either PEF or DNG. That was middle of July. Seems like time for another update. Hopefully that will do what you want.

I personally see PEF becoming an orphan (no Daddy Warbucks to save her) and even the cameras will stop outputting them. Get used to using DNG!

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08-22-2016, 12:24 PM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by k70k1000 Quote
I want to be able to edit .pef files in Adobe lightroom without having to convert the files to .dng.
Why not set the camera to shoot DNG? As already noted PEF is a proprietary format and Pentax gives you the option of shooting DNG. If you are using Adobe products shooting PEF makes little sense. The only possible issue is what @stevebrot mentioned but that can be avoided by turning off 'write data to file automatically', which is generally a good idea just for performance reasons. If you ever actually do want you xmp data written to the file you can do that manually.
08-22-2016, 12:57 PM   #7
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I will change the camera to shooting .dng. Thanks for the assistance.
08-22-2016, 01:59 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by k70k1000 Quote
I will change the camera to shooting .dng. Thanks for the assistance.
That will provide a short term solution. Adobe ACR and Lightroom will use the camera profile embedded in the DNG. Full support in a future update to CC will add the Adobe Standard profile for your camera as well as additional profiles to support looks similar to those available on-camera for JPEG.


Steve

08-22-2016, 02:14 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by rechmbrs Quote
I personally see PEF becoming an orphan (no Daddy Warbucks to save her) and even the cameras will stop outputting them.
The cameras may no longer output PEF and other proprietary RAW file types, but becoming fully orphaned (no software support) is unlikely in the foreseeable future. The reason I say that is because legacy support for various RAW formats is not expensive to maintain and commercial products that currently support a particular format will likely continue to do so in the future.


Steve
08-22-2016, 06:00 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
The cameras may no longer output PEF and other proprietary RAW file types, but becoming fully orphaned (no software support) is unlikely in the foreseeable future. The reason I say that is because legacy support for various RAW formats is not expensive to maintain and commercial products that currently support a particular format will likely continue to do so in the future.


Steve
DNG Converter from Adobe is one way of handling discontinued formats. It is supposed to maintain a format history within the ACR routine. ACR in PSCC and LR should also have the history.
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08-23-2016, 03:09 AM - 1 Like   #11
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I worked for 3 years for a company which supplied digital archiving software to national archives. This impacts my file choices in two ways

1. I use DNG because it is much less likely to become an orphaned format, which should save me hassle in the future.

2. I don't worry too much about my older photos taken in PEF, because I know that truely orphaned file formats with no hope of conversion are incredibly rare unless you're talking about files from a dead system like the BBC micro or Comadore Amiga (where the problem is usually more to do with reading the media than the file itself). Particularly when you're talking about a raw photo format, dcraw is open source and will serve as documentation of the file format if nothing else, chances are if I really had to I could write the decoder myself on some mythical new system which can't run dcraw.
08-23-2016, 11:31 AM   #12
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I am new to DSLR camera's. Thanks for the help everyone.

Lightroom doesn't seem to be that straight foward. Do you need Lightroom if you have mac photos. I heard Lightroom is better.

I used film SLRs in the past like the K1000, just trying to get used to the new camera (K-70).
08-23-2016, 11:45 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by k70k1000 Quote
I am new to DSLR camera's. Thanks for the help everyone.
We've all been there!

QuoteOriginally posted by k70k1000 Quote
Lightroom doesn't seem to be that straight foward. Do you need Lightroom if you have mac photos. I heard Lightroom is better.
Lightroom is one of the best catalogue management and RAW development tools available... some would say *the* best, while some prefer other similar applications, but they all have a fair learning curve.

I'd advise against trying to learn too many things at once, as it's all too easy to become overwhelmed. Right now, the K-70 is more than enough for you to be getting on with, so I would suggest that - for now - you maybe shoot JPEG (or RAW+ so that you have RAW and JPEG versions of your files). That way, you can enjoy the photos you're taking straight out of the camera, without having to rely on post-processing.

Once you've got the hang of your camera - at least, enough to handle typical shooting situations, and to find your way around all of the features and menus - then perhaps concentrate on learning Lightroom. There are some excellent books on the subject - my favourite, recommended to me by another member here, is "The Adobe Photoshop Lightroom CC / Lightroom 6 Book: The Complete Guide for Photographers" by Martin Evening. It will take you a while to work through it, but by the end you'll be able to organise your catalogue of images and process them with a high degree of proficiency.
08-23-2016, 01:00 PM   #14
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Thank you for your help! You all have been very helpful.
08-31-2016, 06:49 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
That will provide a short term solution. Adobe ACR and Lightroom will use the camera profile embedded in the DNG. Full support in a future update to CC will add the Adobe Standard profile for your camera as well as additional profiles to support looks similar to those available on-camera for JPEG.


Steve
My experience with importing K-70 DNGs into Lightroom CC was not good. The images seemed a bit out of focus and noisy. I didn't realize that the K-70 was not yet supported, and was disappointed with the camera purchase. After finding out that camera was not supported in LR, I went ahead and installed the Digital Camera Utility that came with the camera. It was a challenge on my MacBook Pro that doesn't have an optical drive, but plugged in a third party CD drive and it installed well. It then crashed frequently during use. Installed the latest update to DCU and it crashes less often. I discovered that it can save the images to a 16-bit TIFF that can be imported into LR. Comparing in LR, the image quality seems much better with the TIFFs than the DNGs (about 5 times the size of 30MB DNG). In LR you can save the TIFF image as DNG (3 times the original), or as a lossy DNG (about 1/5th the size of the original). Unfortunately lens profile correction no longer work after conversion by DCU. But the "remove chromatic aberrations" option still works well. Slowly getting used to the quirks and crashes of DCU and can use it, but conversion to tiff is quite slow even on the latest MacBook Pro (quad core, maxed 16GB memory, SSD storage). DCU can convert multiple files in background but often crashes before completion.

I would prefer to stay with complete LR workflow, but at least the DCU can recover the image quality in LR.
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