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09-04-2016, 03:47 AM - 2 Likes   #1
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Question about Pentax as a brand

Hi,

I am a canonian, thinking about switching brands.
I started with 350D back in 2007 then switched to the 500D. I mostly shoot during my travels, so I value the portability of my camera. I also almost never use the flash, so often I find myself needing more ISO (with 500D I try to stick to ISO 800 as much as possible, and in worst cases go to ISO 1600; it's maximum, ISO 3200, is a pain). I don't have many lenses, so I am considering a switch now.

I looked a lot at the new hot stuff in town: mirrorless. They are an intriguing proposition (with Fuji beeing on top of my list), but I am still not convinced of the portability they promise. Canon 500D + Tamron 17-50 (non VC) weighs almost 1000g. Fuji X-T10 with Fujinon 18-55 F2.8 weighs a little over 1000g. So where is the flange focal range advantage here? Sony's A7 seems to have the same "problem".

Besides that, I am used to an optical viewfinder. I like it, and I am a little bit afraid to switch an electronic one. I read a lot about them, and while it's true I haven't tried one extensively, I can't imagine them beeing better as the optical ones. So for the moment I am thinking to stick to DSLR.

It would seem there are only three companies to choose from, when it comes to DSLR: Canon, Nikon and Pentax. Sony is going mirrorless (and I don't like them anyway ). I generally like my Canon, I guess many would reccomend not to switch. I haven't made up my mind yet, anyway, but I also did not shoot extensively with anything else or shared experience with somebody else.

What I miss in my current camera:
- high ISO
- weather sealing/high quality construction
- viewfinder who covers the entire picture

What I would like in my new camera:
- good construction and/or weather sealing
- more portability (less weight, smaller size)
- no articulated screen (I believe it shortens the life of the camera, as it will eventually break)

I was initially thrilled when I saw Canon releasing the 100D, but sadly they positioned it even lower than the current entry-level xxxDs, and clearly targeted at beginners. Yes, this camera is an excercise, maybe they come up with a new model that will be targeted at a different audience, but that hasn't happened yet. I also considered the 6D for a while, thinking to give up my portability requirement in favour of high ISO, but I'm not convinced yet that this is a good trade off for me. I also need to look closer at the lenses, as I may end up carrying way more than the 250g, which is the weight difference between 500D and 6D. Size is also becoming uncomfortable with 6D.

One thing I don't like about Canon is that they started to have too many products, and they have to leave out features from certain models, to prevent them from canibalizing on higher end ones. This is the case with 100D, 80D and 6D. Strangely, 80D, 7D Mk II and 6D are all similarly priced.

Apparently Nikon is generally better than Canon at high ISO, but that's only from several reviews I read.

Canon's are almost all manufactured in Japan, which I consider a good thing. This is not the case with Nikon.

So, one day I decided to have a look at Pentax, and this brings me here. I was surprised to see weather sealing and viewfinder with full coverange even in the entry levels (which are more expensive than Canon's because of that). I guess this is because Pentax does not have to worry so much about the entry levels cannibalizing on their flagship products. Or maybe they just want to offer something that the big guy's don't (at least not in the entry levels). Either way it's a good thing.

So, my questions to you are:
What Pentax would you reccomend for me?
What are your general views and oppinions on Pentax as a brand? What's keeping you with Pentax, and what annoys you?

Thanks for taking the time to read my post. Cheers,
Razvan

09-04-2016, 04:07 AM   #2
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QuoteOriginally posted by roti Quote
Question about Pentax as a brand
Hi roti. Welcome to the Pentax forums, and possibly Pentax equipment !! Just a couple of questions for you before the advice comes rolling in. What are your preferred photographic subjects? Do you have a $ budget?


EDIT - My questions relate to the recommendations of which camera/lenses to suggest to you roti. Pentax is a very varied brand now it has the K-1 in its line up. Cheers.

Last edited by pjv; 09-04-2016 at 04:29 AM. Reason: Add text
09-04-2016, 04:39 AM - 4 Likes   #3
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Hi and welcome.

What we would recommend for you depends on what sort of shooting you do and how much money you have to spend (the flagship full-frame K-1 is roughly US$1800 new, body-only; the entry level bodies are less than half that; clearance models lower again), whether you are prepared to buy used, etc, and then there are lenses to buy (again, what do you shoot and what focal lengths would you need to replace in swapping systems?).

Switching systems is an expensive proposition, and while we're always eager to welcome more photographers into the Pentax fold, it's not a decision to be taken lightly. I went from a Nikon digital bridge camera to one of the early Pentax DSLRs (when the Nikon was stolen!!) before many of the current features were introduced, and I found the Pentax a delight to use, but I eventually had to update to a newer model (I have the K-5, which was a flagship model when I bought it in 2012), and the things I enjoy about the Pentax system are:

1) Weather resistance, when fitted with a lens +/- external flash (as needed) which have the same capability; it means I can be out in light rain or mist for a short time without having to worry too much.
2) Back compatibility with the entire range of legacy Pentax lenses (with small workarounds for the earlier manual lenses; they are trivial for a more experienced photographer).
3) In-body shake reduction, so that EVERY lens I put on the camera has stabilisation (right back to the M42 screwmounts with an adapter).
4) I find the ergonomics very pleasant, but this is such an individual thing that I hesitate to speak for others.

Downsides:
Autofocus and DSLR videography are widely described as Pentax weak spots when compared against other DSLR makers, but depending on the shooting you do, this MAY not be relevant. This has only occasionally been limiting for me, and then with a significantly older body (4 years) shooting under difficult circumstances. Lens choices are also fewer, but others may look at the Canon and Nikon lineups and say they have too much choice.

For full-frame, the choice of modern, digital-era full frame lenses is currently limited and they are mostly expensive f/2.8 zooms, but there is a broad range of film-era AF lenses, a couple of which are still made, plus 50mm and 100mm macro primes which are excellent.

For APS-C, there is a very good range which should suit the needs of most photographers (and the crop factor is 1.5 rather than 1.6, so that you get a little extra field of view with any given focal length).

Insofar as mirrorless APS-C are concerned, I have heard almost entirely good things about Fuji - that they do what they do really well - but in my eyes, the advantage of mirrorless seems to be for people who shoot light, short, wide-angle prime lenses designed for that system; once you are much past short tele, the advantage evaporates and you are almost better off using a DSLR. YouTube user "The Angry Photographer", for example, was as far as I can tell once exclusively a Nikon SLR/DSLR shooter but now uses Fuji a lot in certain particular circumstances and runs both systems in parallel. He has a lot to say about "mirrorless hype", his general philosophical thrust seeming to be that merely being mirrorless does not make a digital camera better, but Fuji mirrorless digital cameras are high quality pieces of kit that in some circumstances for some of his shooting are better than any of his DSLRs; ergo he bought and uses them.
09-04-2016, 05:02 AM - 2 Likes   #4
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I find my K-5IIs to be very portable, although it's probably not as light as your 500D. Even though it's an advanced dslr, it's very compact, and with a 50 or a 35 mm lens attached to it, it almost fits into the pocket in the side door in my car. I believe with a 40 mm pancake it actually will fit into the pocket. Its compactness also makes it a joy to shoot with. It's almost like shooting with a film slr.

So if you can get hold of a used K-5/K-5II/K-5IIs I can highly recommend it. You get a very capable, very compact body for what you pay for a less capable entry level body. :-)

09-04-2016, 05:36 AM   #5
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You already have some good input above so I'll be brief. If you have the budget and can carry the weight, the K-1 matches well with your desires. I've found it to be a excellent camera and the 24-70 lens performs very well. While the K-1 is not a lower cost option, I think it's value is superior to what you'll find with other brands. As far as the articulating screen is concerned, I trust the engineers at Pentax with their reliability testing. I probably use the screen in an articulated position for about 1/20 pictures. For your concerns I would suggest not using the articulation or using it very rarely. I suspect risk of failure would be very low if the screen is not articulated. My dislikes include the high cost of FF lenses and lack of third party lenses. For my K-3 more than half my 11 lenses were aftermarket brands. I'm finding minimal offerings in the aftermarket for FF lenses. I'm having trouble finding a reasonably priced FF wide lens of high quality, but then 24mm on FF is pretty wide so I'm not too worried. I've found my various Pentax cameras and lenses to be very well made and durable. If you don't wish to go full-frame I think the K-3 II would be a good fit. Good luck on your decisions.
09-04-2016, 07:13 AM - 2 Likes   #6
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As a brand, I think Pentax/Ricoh DSLR has a greater value offer than Canikon. If you have a chance to handle one, you will feel the difference in the camera built and ergonomics. Depending on your budget, you can get either a k-S2 (entry level APS-C), or a k-3 II (mid-tier APS-C) or k-1 (high-end FF). Or alternatively, if you can get older models (new or used) k-5II or k-3, they are quite nice and certainly adequate for most types of shooting styles. As for the lens, you can get the DA 16-85 or 16-135 (both WR) or primes depending on your interests and needs.
09-04-2016, 07:24 AM   #7
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Welcome, roti! So far the discussion has been mostly about features and ergonomics. Let's talk image quality. My first Pentax was a refurb K200D which is still going strong. I fell in love with the vibrant yet lifelike colors from the Sony 10mp sensor via Pentax glass, just magical compared with my former Canon. Eneloop AA batteries will run that little guy forever. My main Pentax is a K-5, which as mentioned was the flagship a few years back. Put first-rate zoom or prime lenses on that and you'll get stunning 16mp pics. And the shake reduction is in the body! So old primes work great. Pentax IQ is second to none IMHO.

Autofocus is underwhelming on both, though there are tricks to compensate. I may upgrade soon for sports photography. The magnesium body frame may be heftier than ABS plastic but to me it is worth it. A few zoom lenses have known issues with the AF motors, but the malfunctions are still rare. The street cred (brand name) factor matters to some but not to me. That's about it for downsides.

If you want a light rig for street photos, any Pentax APS-C with a hand strap and a 40mm Limited pancake lens will feel like an extension of your hand. From your comments, it sounds like the K-1 would have too much bulk and weight. Not to mention price, at least at the moment.

My suggestion would be to try some used gear from the Marketplace on this forum. Don't break the bank until you're sure Pentax is the right system for you. Good luck!

Last edited by vodoc; 09-04-2016 at 07:30 AM.
09-04-2016, 07:27 AM - 2 Likes   #8
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Pro:
Size (apsc bodies in particular)
Dedicated Apsc lens selections
Menus make sense photographicly
Feature rich top to bottom of line
Small high quality primes
Value relative to price
Superb ergonomics
Shake reduction is great

Con:
SDM failure rate seems high
Focusing can be slower
Focus tracking of moving subjects
3rd party lens availability
Fast aperture choices limited
3rd party support lags
Mediocre repair facility (usa)
Ok but not stellar jpgs ( use raw)


What I would recommend is giving more details on budget and type of photography. I would suggest you give details on existing lenses and what you may want to change about your kit.


Last edited by UncleVanya; 09-04-2016 at 12:36 PM.
09-04-2016, 07:43 AM   #9
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The nice thing about the Pentax camera lineup is the amount of usable features on even the lowest priced models. The build quality on the lower priced models is very good, even though compact they will be heaver than many other DSLRs because of that, but that also makes them feel more balanced with a lens. I don't really see a lot of "weight" advantage, the real advantages are image quality, stabilization on every lens, weather sealing (as long as you are using a weather sealed lens), and other things that may or may not be useful to you. Auto focus could be improved, but I don't find it too limiting. It would be nice to have auto focus during video, but I don't shoot video anyway and if I did I'd buy a dedicated video camera. I'm still shooting with a K-30 and K-50, both out of production. If I were to buy a camera today it would be the K-1, or if I did want a smaller camera, the K-70, because at the moment they are the most advanced. I think you have to look at the features you want also, compare the advantages of each system. If it's purely size for travel, I would go with a K-70 and small primes, and maybe a WR zoom. The weather sealing has saved me a few times, last summer I was caught in a torrential down pour on the mall at Washington, DC. I just went on shooting with my K-30 and 18-135WR, no problems at all.
09-04-2016, 08:23 AM   #10
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+1 for the Weather sealing, even on the Kit Lens! Being able to go out in any kind of weather and shoot is a fantastic feature for my shooting style
I prefer bad weather, it makes for better pictures, I use a K-5 with an 18-55, but i'm planning on getting an 18-135 WR lens to expand the range on what would be my "walk around" lens.

If you are unsure about Pentax, rent one, and a lens or two, and try it out. I am renting a K-1, from borrowlenses.com, less than $100 dollars for 3 days, including shipping. It is fantastic so far with both FA lenses and old fully manual lenses as well. I suggest the fantastic FA 77mm paired with the K-1 if you decide to try it out.
If you rent an APS-C your choices are even broader. BTW, you can use an APS-C (DA) lens on a K-1 I'll be trying that out this weekend as well.

To return to lens choices, Pentax DSLRs accept any Pentax mount lens, most of my lens are used manual focus/auto-aperture lenses, I've rarely spent more than $150 on optically incredible used lenses that would cost me 5x more to buy new.

Used DSLR bodies are usually inexpensive, and are often in great shape. I purchased a used k-30 for my daughter here on the forum's marketplace, and she is fully pleased with it.
09-04-2016, 08:32 AM   #11
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I've never used any camera system except Pentax. Now with that said I think you would be hard pressed to find a better value. No other camera maker comes close.

I too travel and I've taken my camera through Africa. Fine dust about like baby powder cruising around with the windows down at 110 degrees F. By the time I got home I had raccoon eyes, my clothes were filthy, and my black camera wasn't black anymore.

When I got home I walked into the shower clothes camera and all and left a giant mud puddle.

I've also taken it on boat trips through the Philippines where I got splashed wet and even got down laying chest deep in water and sand. Still no problem. I even put my camera in a dry bag and swam in he ocean for 100 yards out to a small island.

Tropics? No sweat.

I haven't done cold yet but I don't like cold

Then add that all other things being equal you can get just as good of images if not better compared to a camera that cost 3x or more as much.

Given there are some cameras that are set up for specific situations but unless that's your thing then why?

I've done a side by side comparison with fa limited lenses compared to Canon L series and I was hard pressed to find significant difference in IQ.

It all depends on what kind of shooting you like or specialize in or if video is your thing or not but for general shooting getting twice as much for half price is a good deal.

90% of the shortcomings of a camera can be made up for with good technique and that applies to every brand out there.

Downsides are a lack of lenses. The lens line up needs to leave a few things alone but revamp and add to the rest.
09-04-2016, 09:06 AM   #12
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Welcome to the Forum!!!!!

I am going to try not to repeat anything addressed previously. From what I have read of your needs and desires is size and weight as the primary issue along with sealing and overall features in somewhat of a secondary role. Pentax use to be one of the lightest weight and smallest in size camera bodies available in the ASP-C sensor size. That has changed somewhat. Just about any of the more recent camera bodies will perform better for you, however size and weight are going to be the issue.

The models that are going to be of the most interest (from oldest to the newest) are: K5, K30, K50, K-s1, K5II, K5IIs, K3, K3II, K-s2, K70. With these models in mind, they are going to be for the most part somewhat larger and heavier (just about all have machined magnesium alloy bodies). An additional contribution to the weight issue is that all the Pentax models have PentaPrisims viewfinders, as opposed to PentaMirror. The absolute lightest will be the K-s1 followed by the K-s2, I believe. The K-s1 I is not sealed, but the K-s2 is, as are all of the rest of the models.

Here is a comparison of the Canon 500D/T1i against the Pentax K-s2...
It does appear that Pentax is going to be a bit larger and heavier. In terms of size and weight it's very difficult to compete against an all plastic camera.

09-04-2016, 09:41 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by roti Quote
Hi,

I am a canonian, thinking about switching brands.
I started with 350D back in 2007 then switched to the 500D. I mostly shoot during my travels, so I value the portability of my camera. I also almost never use the flash, so often I find myself needing more ISO (with 500D I try to stick to ISO 800 as much as possible, and in worst cases go to ISO 1600; it's maximum, ISO 3200, is a pain). I don't have many lenses, so I am considering a switch now.

I looked a lot at the new hot stuff in town: mirrorless. They are an intriguing proposition (with Fuji beeing on top of my list), but I am still not convinced of the portability they promise. Canon 500D + Tamron 17-50 (non VC) weighs almost 1000g. Fuji X-T10 with Fujinon 18-55 F2.8 weighs a little over 1000g. So where is the flange focal range advantage here? Sony's A7 seems to have the same "problem".

Besides that, I am used to an optical viewfinder. I like it, and I am a little bit afraid to switch an electronic one. I read a lot about them, and while it's true I haven't tried one extensively, I can't imagine them beeing better as the optical ones. So for the moment I am thinking to stick to DSLR.

It would seem there are only three companies to choose from, when it comes to DSLR: Canon, Nikon and Pentax. Sony is going mirrorless (and I don't like them anyway ). I generally like my Canon, I guess many would reccomend not to switch. I haven't made up my mind yet, anyway, but I also did not shoot extensively with anything else or shared experience with somebody else.

What I miss in my current camera:
- high ISO
- weather sealing/high quality construction
- viewfinder who covers the entire picture

What I would like in my new camera:
- good construction and/or weather sealing
- more portability (less weight, smaller size)
- no articulated screen (I believe it shortens the life of the camera, as it will eventually break)

I was initially thrilled when I saw Canon releasing the 100D, but sadly they positioned it even lower than the current entry-level xxxDs, and clearly targeted at beginners. Yes, this camera is an excercise, maybe they come up with a new model that will be targeted at a different audience, but that hasn't happened yet. I also considered the 6D for a while, thinking to give up my portability requirement in favour of high ISO, but I'm not convinced yet that this is a good trade off for me. I also need to look closer at the lenses, as I may end up carrying way more than the 250g, which is the weight difference between 500D and 6D. Size is also becoming uncomfortable with 6D.

One thing I don't like about Canon is that they started to have too many products, and they have to leave out features from certain models, to prevent them from canibalizing on higher end ones. This is the case with 100D, 80D and 6D. Strangely, 80D, 7D Mk II and 6D are all similarly priced.

Apparently Nikon is generally better than Canon at high ISO, but that's only from several reviews I read.

Canon's are almost all manufactured in Japan, which I consider a good thing. This is not the case with Nikon.

So, one day I decided to have a look at Pentax, and this brings me here. I was surprised to see weather sealing and viewfinder with full coverange even in the entry levels (which are more expensive than Canon's because of that). I guess this is because Pentax does not have to worry so much about the entry levels cannibalizing on their flagship products. Or maybe they just want to offer something that the big guy's don't (at least not in the entry levels). Either way it's a good thing.

So, my questions to you are:
What Pentax would you reccomend for me?
What are your general views and oppinions on Pentax as a brand? What's keeping you with Pentax, and what annoys you?

Thanks for taking the time to read my post. Cheers,
Razvan
I'd take a look at the K-S2:

Pentax K-S2 Review - Introduction | PentaxForums.com Reviews

It's not the smallest Pentax (though it's the smallest one in the current lineup), but it's got everything you need, pretty much! A lot of features at a great price.

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09-04-2016, 11:43 AM   #14
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One thing I didn't see addressed (admittedly I didn't look closely), the KS-2 does have an articulating screen. As with most things Pentax, it seems very durable. If you worry about it, just don't articulate it and it won't wear out.

One more thing, buying things used, here in the marketplace, is a great way to get excellent deals on well cared for camera equipment.
09-04-2016, 11:46 AM   #15
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Many thanks for your insights.

I shoot primarily during travels, so it would be landscapes, portraits and some street photography. I do plan to focus on potraits more in the near future.

I currently own a Canon 18-55 IS (the kit lens), Tamron 17-50 f/2.8 VC (bought to replace the kit lens, but I found myself not using it too much because of the size), Canon 50mm / f/1.8 and Canon 100mm f/2. I never shot any video, and it's not an important feature for me, but I may use it if the camera supports it. I mostly use the zoom lens, as I still feel slighly incomfortable with the prime lenses.

I don't have a particular budget, but I would try to keep my costs down, as photography is just a hobby. A 1000$ body would be good, but I'm also willing to go beyond if I find value in it.

@pathdoc, what exactly do you mean by "autofocus is Pentax' weak spot"?

I am a little bit skeptical about the shake reduction feature. It's a nice to have, but does it come with a compromise? Fuji does not have in body image stabilization because it is incompatible with the lens mount (there is no space for the sensor to shift without compromising image quality, see here: “Our highest priority is always image quality”. Interview with Takashi Ueno and Shusuke Kozaki from Fujifilm Japan. | FUJI LOVE). How does Pentax do it, especially since they are using an old lens mount design? Fuji made a brand new mount and decided not to have in body stabilization. Pentax may have forced it into the body to have a competitive advantage over Canikon. In addition to that, stabilisation will help only partially in poor light conditions.

@vodoc, I am somewhat surpised to hear that Pentax image quality is second to none. What makes it better? It is my impression that many top professional photographers choose Canikon, rather than Pentax. So I expect their image quality to be the best. Yes, lower end models are stripped down and there's a lot of marketing involved there, but the sensons are the same. At most they are one generation older and/or smaller in size.

What about the menu system and shooting modes? Canon has two: one for entry levels and one for mid-range and flagships, the latter one having the button layout and menu system more suited for advanced photographers. If you move from an xxxD to an xxD you essentially pay for weather sealing and menu system, which is more or less the same as the big full frames. Does Pentax have something similar?
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