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07-27-2008, 10:47 AM   #16
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QuoteQuote:
Shouldn't you make it EASIER to get a deal on your product by just lowering the price?
Rebates are a marketing device, didn't you know? It gives you a lower price deal while keeping the product value high.

07-27-2008, 02:36 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by SpecialK Quote
Rebates are a marketing device, didn't you know? It gives you a lower price deal while keeping the product value high.
By george you're right! Thanks!

Yes they are, and the debate about their effectiveness has been going around about as long as the debate about which camera is better.

IMO, a simple sale will keep the perceived value high while giving the consumer a better deal at that moment. And I'm willing to bet that if you had a choice between an item on sale for $200 less or one with a $200 mail-in rebate, you will buy the on-sale one.

Rebates are good for the company in the sense that it will move a little more inventory and also chances are many of the consumers will not take the time to follow the rebate process. But it has also been shown that many people are turned off by rebates who might have bought the product had it just been on sale for the same amount, and this doesn't bode well for customer loyalty. It also depends on the product and it's price point in the market segment as to whether a rebate will work. Like I said, the debate has been going on for as long as rebates have been issued. It must work for some or it would be an abandoned practice.

It is my opinion (and maybe I'm in the minority...I don't know. Someone let me know here!) that a mail-in rebate has more negative impact in the long run. For me personally as a consumer, it immediately turns me off to the company. It just doesn't make any sense to make your customer have to fill out paperwork, mail a letter off, and wait for an unknown number of months to get some money back (and possibly make several phone calls when the check never shows up). Most companies truly concerned about customer satisfaction and loyalty try to make their customers buying experience as simple and pleasant as possible, not make them work for it. And customer satisfaction and loyalty are the backbone of any business. A good image of your company is harder to achieve than a bad one. If a customer has a good experience with you, they will tell one person about it. If they have a bad experience, they will tell 10.

All my opinion, of course!
07-27-2008, 02:53 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by navcom Quote

It is my opinion (and maybe I'm in the minority...I don't know. Someone let me know here!) that a mail-in rebate has more negative impact in the long run.


All my opinion, of course!
I've heard a number of complaints from Americans regarding rebates in the USA. Apparently the company that handles the rebates often appears to be in the business of refusing to honour the rebates rather than sending out the cheques.
The ultimate turn-off for a customer is to buy something with a rebate and then have the rebate tossed out because of some technicality.
07-27-2008, 03:01 PM   #19
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I haven't had any issues with the Pentax rebates -- three (3) different ones no less.
- K100D + DA 50-200 ($150 total)
- DA 16-45 ($100)
- DA 10-17 FE ($100)
In fact, they've always had a 4-5 week turn-around, which is outstanding.

I'm going to find out with the latest rebate.
- K20D + DA* 16-50 + DA 50-135 + AF 360 ($350 total)

One of my past blog articles on the matter:
BS' Blog: How To Fill Out Rebates

07-27-2008, 03:31 PM   #20
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I'm not a fan of Pentax, I'm simply a user! If that's too low a profile, I'm sorry I ever joined this community!
07-27-2008, 03:41 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by pichygrue Quote
I'm not a fan of Pentax, I'm simply a user! If that's too low a profile, I'm sorry I ever joined this community!

You're absolutely right! We all need to be reminded from time to time that in the end we are users of their products.

Forgive us. Sometimes we get caught up in the passion of the brand. It's only because I love my Pentax gear and want to see the company succeed. I guess that makes me a fan! For some of us, "fan" really is short for "fanatic"!

...yikes!....I guess for me that makes this forum a....*gulp*.... "support group"! Eeiiiii!
07-27-2008, 04:18 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by RaduA Quote
Falcons,
About the electronics system in the cameras don't forget what level of competance and power Samsung has in this field of expertise. The first offspring it's the new sensor and IMO it's at least competitive for a first try. The fact that K20D had minor improvements in AF, mettering, shutter mechanism compared to K10D makes me believe they chose to release all their upgrades at onces in the form of a direct D300 competitor with the 14,6 Mp sensor. My 2 cents say that we'll see at least a prototype of this at Photokina with delievery date latter this year.

Radu
I sincerely hope you are right.


QuoteOriginally posted by pichygrue Quote
I'm not a fan of Pentax, I'm simply a user! If that's too low a profile, I'm sorry I ever joined this community!
Sorry I don't understand. Have I missed something? How has a mild debate on marketing turned into you needing to state the above?

I suppose I cn be called a Pentax fan and I am intereted in business as well and it is fascinating to watch a company trying to position itself in a market - to me it is almost a sport.

Hope you keep being a Pentax user though.
07-27-2008, 04:23 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by pichygrue Quote
I'm not a fan of Pentax, I'm simply a user! If that's too low a profile, I'm sorry I ever joined this community!
That's funny!! There are many of us that are users, not fans. I'd like to brag about how good the company is that made my camera but to be honest about it Pentax makes that very difficult at times.

07-28-2008, 04:05 AM   #24
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My perspective is a bit different. (I am not yet a fan.. though I could become one )

I have never had anything more than a nice point and shoot. I loved to take pics and wanted a DSLR for years. I watched as the price came down. I looked at pics on other (non camera/photography) forums and wanted a Nikkon. Thats what all the others had right?

Hubby, from back before we were together, had some pentax lenses. So I reasearched pentax. I was impressed by reviews. So I went to a physical store (Henry's) and went and actually looked at the Nikkon D80 and the Pentax K20. The store people actually told me the Pentax was the better camera overall.

I liked it and bought it. I don't care what the pro's use. I did care what everyone else was using, in a way. Its not that I like to follow the crowd, its just that if hubby hadn't had those lenses it might never have occurred to me to look at Pentax.
07-28-2008, 06:08 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dekka Quote
I have never had anything more than a nice point and shoot. I loved to take pics and wanted a DSLR for years.
Almost the same story here.
I came from a Point'n Shoot and got tired of the limitations at higher ISO, among other things.

QuoteOriginally posted by Dekka Quote
I watched as the price came down. I looked at pics on other (non camera/photography) forums and wanted a Nikkon. Thats what all the others had right?
Hubby, from back before we were together, had some pentax lenses. So I reasearched pentax. I was impressed by reviews. So I went to a physical store (Henry's) and went and actually looked at the Nikkon D80 and the Pentax K20. The store people actually told me the Pentax was the better camera overall.
I liked it and bought it. I don't care what the pro's use. I did care what everyone else was using, in a way. Its not that I like to follow the crowd, its just that if hubby hadn't had those lenses it might never have occurred to me to look at Pentax.
This is what really gets to me.

I do understand why "Pros" choose Canon and Nikon -- from high-end options, available fast telezooms, lens rentals, etc...
If I was a Pro, I'd be tempted to buy a D300 or D3 and some serious Nikon glass, for $5-6k.
What I do NOT understand is why so many Canon and, even worse, Nikon "fanboys" recommend the Rebel and, God help us, D40/D60 products.

I mean, really, the D40/D60 are crippled POS and at least some Nikon Pros/Semi-Pros know and admit it.
In fact, most of the "chatter" comes from other noobs or only amateur-level Nikon owners who bought the marketing and talk about "what the Pros use" while they are not themselves.

One D40 owner told me I was stupid to have a Pentax K100D, but with 0 technical meat, and when presented with things like lack of bracketing in the D40, his response was, "you don't need it if you know what you're doing."
Then he turned around and told someone else "when you want to do more serious stuff, you'll want to get a higher-end Nikon body with bracketing."

WTF?

I love Pentax because, as a novice now (trying to move into the amateur arena), I got all the features I wanted to start with at entry-level.
To get most of those, I had to go mid to high-end on the body, let alone when I bought, the in-lens IS was still costly (it's come down now, because of Pentax and Sony).

I started with a K100D and three (3) lenses: DA 10-17 FE, DA 16-45 and DA 50-200 -- for less than any mid-range Canon or Nikon body alone.
I just ordered the K20D with DA* 16-50 and DA* 50-135 because I want after, compact lenses that make the entire system sealed.
I also opted for the AF 360 FGZ flash since it came to just over $100 with the rebate offer as well.

So yeah, I just dropped $2,250 after rebates, and could have had a Nikon D300 plus one good wide angle or one mid-range tele.
But I look at Pentax's history, their "value" for the amateur, those of us that don't have press passes and can't carry in huge telezooms to sporting events.

Those of us who live in Florida and have to worry about weather in the fall during American football season.
And those of us who like to travel, often to costal or other wet areas, and don't want to have to worry about splashes.

That's why I just finally bought into the K20D and DA* lenses, even though I only had about $600-700 invested in K-mount glass prior.
I'm looking forward to the DA* 60-250 f/4 at some point as well as if the forthcoming DA 11-16 is a DA* too.

The reviews on the Tokina 11-16 ATX-Pro are besting most of the Canon and Nikon mid-range stuff.
07-28-2008, 06:52 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by navcom Quote
You're absolutely right! We all need to be reminded from time to time that in the end we are users of their products.

Forgive us. Sometimes we get caught up in the passion of the brand. It's only because I love my Pentax gear and want to see the company succeed. I guess that makes me a fan! For some of us, "fan" really is short for "fanatic"!

...yikes!....I guess for me that makes this forum a....*gulp*.... "support group"! Eeiiiii!
I'm not sure what this group is. It seems to be populated by a number of people who think Pentax can succeed with a user base who buys third party lenses.
07-28-2008, 09:33 AM   #27
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When I was shopping for my first DSLR I did a lot of internet surfing and checking out what was out there and liked the Pentax and because I already had Pentax film cameras I was leaning that way but I also will not buy a camera sight unseen. There were Nikon and Canon everywhere that I could pick up and check out but not much else. When the local Ritz got in a K10D, I picked it up, shot some pics in the store and bought it on the spot. I didn't like the feel of the Canon Rebel and the Nikon D40's you see everywhere. Ergonomics and camera layout are important to many people, myself included and thats something you don't get internet shopping. I will not buy a new car without sitting in it and taking it for a test drive nor will I buy a camera without checking it out also. I may end up dealing with a mail order or internet seller but still not before holding the camera in my hands first, playing with the controls, take a few pics and look at them on the LCD and deciding if I like the camera. Canons and Nikons are everywhere, Walmart, Target, Best Buy and now I'm seeing Sonys everywhere also. If Pentax wants to sell cameras they will have to advertise and also get cameras into stores where they can be seen.
07-28-2008, 09:46 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
I'm not sure what this group is. It seems to be populated by a number of people who think Pentax can succeed with a user base who buys third party lenses.
Welcome to the strange world of Pentax users. The world where success is not judged just by the "hugeness" of the bottom line. One of the things that saddens me the most is this money narcissism present in the world today. I "understand" that profits must be made in order to continue business but the line is flexible. As to old lenses, there is a gradual attrition rate currently occurring. Newer generations are buying the new stuff and the old guard is gradually warming to the new. Functionality (even SDM vs Screwdrive) is gradually sharply curtailing the "desireability" of many old lenses.
Fortunately Pentax didn't take the Canon way of a quick surgical strike. They couldn't have survived for long.
No, gradual evolution is better for all... you just have less patience then the typical "Pentaxian". Heck I waited over 20 years for them to go into DSLR digital.
07-28-2008, 10:13 AM   #29
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An ultra-high-end uber camera would certainly help the Pentax seemingly mainstream lineup. But marketing a model to help the "average joe" take above average photos works as well. Nikon recently put on a stellar campaign for the d40 series. Remember the Canon AE-1 in the 80's? That was the camera to have then. Even Saturday Night Live spoofed it: Kannon AE-1 - A camera "so simple, so advanced, even Stevie Wonder (as himself) can use it." Brilliant!
07-28-2008, 12:17 PM   #30
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The entry level model (K2000D?) is a certainty and the higher than K20D model is ore than likely. And we'll see both at Photokina (my guess) and for the next year I see Pentax at 10% or more market share worldwide with a significant presence in Europe at least. People tends to forget that Canon and Nikon outsells Pentax many times but this is mostly because they have both high ends to make customers dream and dirt cheap models for them to buy when they "wake up".

The local Pentax representative sells K200D at a faster rate than any other camera in the past and vastly over their most optimist expectations.

Radu
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